I thought Manning was done choking...

#351
#351
justingroves said:
The Colts game was a perfect example of Peyton not being able to carry a team.

No run game = A loss in the NFL except for a select few QBs, namely Brett and Tom.

Garrard threw for 268 yards against the Pats. What happened? They lost.

Peyton lacks the "it" that QBs of legend have. Will Peyton will be in the HOF? Yes. Can Peyton put a team on his back and carry them to a victory, just will his team to a win? No. Only a select few can. Stats notwithstanding, he's never been able to. He's still one of the top 5 QBs in the NFL today though.
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I don't know about that. I think the comeback the Colts had in the win over the Pats last year was as epic as any of Brady's comebacks. And next year when the defense is healthy, it will probably once again be a Colts-Pats AFC Championship, with the winnner taking the Super Bowl.

As for the no running game thing... The Colts still had 450 yards of offense against the league's most talented defense. A few plays prevented this game from being drastically different. The ones that weren't really Peyton-related:

Marvin Harrison fumbled.
2 redzone passes hit receivers in the hands and then wound up in the defense's hands.
Dallas Clark dropped a catchable (although not easily catchable) ball on fourth down of the final drive.

Anyway, I don't think Peyton didn't really do his part. The Colts still should have won. I don't know if he "carried" the team, but I think he carried his weight. I don't think it makes him look that great that just 24 hours prior Tom Brady had the best game of his career.

As for Peyton being a top 5 QB, I think he's at worst 3. I won't even entertain anyone being better that isn't named Brady or Favre.
 
#352
#352
no one could carry a defense that can get beat by Billy Volek and LT's back up.
 
#354
#354
there's no use defending that unit for what they did early on. they screwed the pooch when it mattered. making all else irrelevant.
 
#355
#355
kptvol said:
I don't know about that. I think the comeback the Colts had in the win over the Pats last year was as epic as any of Brady's comebacks. And next year when the defense is healthy, it will probably once again be a Colts-Pats AFC Championship, with the winnner taking the Super Bowl.

As for the no running game thing... The Colts still had 450 yards of offense against the league's most talented defense. A few plays prevented this game from being drastically different. The ones that weren't really Peyton-related:

Marvin Harrison fumbled.
2 redzone passes hit receivers in the hands and then wound up in the defense's hands.
Dallas Clark dropped a catchable (although not easily catchable) ball on fourth down of the final drive.

Anyway, I don't think Peyton didn't really do his part. The Colts still should have won. I don't know if he "carried" the team, but I think he carried his weight. I don't think it makes him look that great that just 24 hours prior Tom Brady had the best game of his career.

As for Peyton being a top 5 QB, I think he's at worst 3. I won't even entertain anyone being better that isn't named Brady or Favre.
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Me neither. He's number 3 at worst.
 
#356
#356
JZVOL said:
Favre and Manning have the same number of rings yet Brett can will his team to victory and Peyton can't?
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Favre has been on some atrocious teams.

Peyton did earlier in his career, but he's been on a consistently good team for the most part.

I like both QBs. But if I had to choose one? Brett all the way. Just my opinion
 
#358
#358
justingroves said:
Favre has been on some atrocious teams.

Peyton did earlier in his career, but he's been on a consistently good team for the most part.
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He's had some pretty weak defenses even on his good teams. I mean, last year's defense was one of the worst rushing defenses in years.
 
#360
#360
droski said:
peyton has been far more consistant than farve over his career.
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Peyton has been in a far more consistent system.

He's always has Marvin Harrison, he's always had a top notch OL (and the OL coach, Howard Mudd, has been there since Peyton was a rookie), always has had a top tier RB with him and he's had the same offensive coordinator (Tom Moore) his entire career.

Any QB would be good in the same system 10 years running.

That being said, Peyton has been a phenom. He is, like I said, one of the best QBs around. But the consistency around him has been excellent and something that isn't seen in the NFL much.

But, IMO, Brett's better.
 
#362
#362
justingroves said:
Peyton has been in a far more consistent system.

He's always has Marvin Harrison, he's always had a top notch OL (and the OL coach, Howard Mudd, has been there since Peyton was a rookie), always has had a top tier RB with him and he's had the same offensive coordinator (Tom Moore) his entire career.
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Edge was out for a year and wasn't top tier for a couple more years after his return. I wouldn't put Dominic Rhodes anywhere near the top tier.
 
#363
#363
justingroves said:
Insert Bob Sanders and the problem is solved.
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Bob Sanders is great, but I'd think a great offense would find a way to eliminate him as a factor. Anyway, that just shows how precarious Indy's defensive situation is. They are one tweaked ankle or one twisted knee away from being awful.
 
#364
#364
kptvol said:
Edge was out for a year and wasn't top tier for a couple more years after his return. I wouldn't put Dominic Rhodes anywhere near the top tier.
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Joseph Addai? He's one of the best young RBs in the game.

And Edge was out for a year, I forgot. Who was that 1,000 yard rusher that stepped in for him?

Look, I'm not saying Peyton isn't great. But he's had tons of more talent around him than Favre has. Favre hasn't had a decent RB in Green Bay in years. Manning has always had a decent run threat.

And Favre has been through how many head coaches and offensive coordinators?
 
#365
#365
justingroves said:
Joseph Addai? He's one of the best young RBs in the game.

And Edge was out for a year, I forgot. Who was that 1,000 yard rusher that stepped in for him?

Look, I'm not saying Peyton isn't great. But he's had tons of more talent around him than Favre has. Favre hasn't had a decent RB in Green Bay in years. Manning has always had a decent run threat.

And Favre has been through how many head coaches and offensive coordinators?
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I didn't say a word about Addai. I mentioned Rhodes, who isn't that great. I wouldn't take him over Ahman Green. When Edge came back from his ACL tear, he wasn't that great for a couple of years. He got back to being good in his final two seasons.

I'm not saying Favre isn't great, but if he'd retired after last season... what would people think about him? His last few years weren't very good. The team performance was bad, but the individual performance wasn't so hot, either.
 
#366
#366
Hard for him to win when his WR is on the sideline and he is getting rocked cause his rookie lineman cannot block worth a sh**
 
#367
#367
kptvol said:
I didn't say a word about Addai. I mentioned Rhodes, who isn't that great. I wouldn't take him over Ahman Green. When Edge came back from his ACL tear, he wasn't that great for a couple of years. He got back to being good in his final two seasons.

I'm not saying Favre isn't great, but if he'd retired after last season... what would people think about him? His last few years weren't very good. The team performance was bad, but the individual performance wasn't so hot, either.
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Ahman Green was old and getting broke down. I'd take Rhodes over him in the 05 and 06 seasons.

Favre would have went out as one of the most beloved QBs to ever put on cleats.
 
#369
#369
justingroves said:
Ahman Green was old and getting broke down. I'd take Rhodes over him in the 05 and 06 seasons.

Favre would have went out as one of the most beloved QBs to ever put on cleats.
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Agreed, but I'm pretty sure everyone would be pretty disappointed in how he ended his career. Outside of this season, he hasn't been great for awhile. Peyton may have a similar skid in a few years, who knows. I'd like to see both guys finish strong.
 
#373
#373
hatvol96 said:
So do Trent Dilfer, Mark Rypien, and Jim McMahon.
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ravens minus dilfer still wins sb
redskins minus rypien still wins sb
bears minus mcmahon still wins sb
colts minus manning maybe not a playoff team

manning played a much larger role in the colt's sb win than the three guys above. i'm sure even the least intelligent on this board would agree.
 
#374
#374
thagodfather said:
ravens minus dilfer still wins sb
redskins minus rypien still wins sb
bears minus mcmahon still wins sb
colts minus manning maybe not a playoff team

manning played a much larger role in the colt's sb win than the three guys above. i'm sure even the least intelligent on this board would agree.
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Don't knock Jim McMahon. :boxing2:
 
#375
#375
justingroves said:
To be fair, Michael Turner will be a star when he gets a chance to start.

Maybe he'll sign with the Panthers? :p
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still though, M. Turner or LT? take your pick.....

as for hte panthers....they need an offensive line that can run block consistently more than anything.
justingroves said:
Peyton has been in a far more consistent system.

He's always has Marvin Harrison, he's always had a top notch OL (and the OL coach, Howard Mudd, has been there since Peyton was a rookie), always has had a top tier RB with him and he's had the same offensive coordinator (Tom Moore) his entire career.

Any QB would be good in the same system 10 years running.

That being said, Peyton has been a phenom. He is, like I said, one of the best QBs around. But the consistency around him has been excellent and something that isn't seen in the NFL much.

But, IMO, Brett's better.
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agreed about Peyton. the only real turnover he's had at skill positions is at RB, and they've done well as an organization of bringing in guys that can play...M. Faulk, Edge, now Addai.....that's a pretty good run of talent imo. add to that, like you said, the coaching situation (upgrade with Dungy over Mora), and you're correct. Favre hasn't had that the last 8 or so years. he's had to do it with 3 different head coaches, different OC's, a litany of RB's and WR and O Linemen. what he's been able to do over time given all those changes is remarkable.

also consider the competition he's played against, specifically contemporaries at the same position: Dan Marino, John Elway, Joe Montana, Troy Aikman, Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Phil Simms, Jim Kelly, Donovan McNabb......he's basically a bridge from then to now. and still competing at a very high level.

they're both great, but for different reasons, hard to say one is better than the other, but i'd say most top notch qb's have better chance to succeed in Peyton's circumstances than Brett Favre's circumstances.:thumbsup:
 
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