I Surrender

utvolpj

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I think that players with NIL
Money should have to pay for their tuition as well. Why not? They already get special privileges as athletes. So even the playing field. For all students.
Many are. That's why we have so many walk-ons. However the university is not officially connected to the NIL deals so tuition wouldn't be involved
 

WoodsmanVol

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Capitalism does not = greed. That's an invalid argument. Capitalism = freedom. Freedom to pursue a better life, as opposed to socialism/communism which stifles innovation, does not reward effort and accomplishment, and only rewards those who contribute nothing to society. I have numerous friends who grew up like me, lower middle class, poor by today's standards. All worked hard, achieved, and were rewarded for their hard work. They are now multi-millionaires. They are generous with their time and money. They have helped far more people than the government has with the same amount of money. Bigger government is not the answer--it's the problem.
Whatever you say, oh infallible one. Whatever you say. As we all know, truth is irrelevant when it comes to capitalism. Individuals aren't capitalism, rather it is a system of exploitation, which is why unions either are, or attempted to be formed. But whatever you say, oh, great one.
 
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Voltopia

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I feel your pain.

I still think this whole transfer portal/NIL thing is going to end in a giant scandal.

The thing that REALLY bothers me is the rise of the sports betting sites and their influence on games. Yes, I know, there has been sports betting since Og bet Ug a turnip that he could run to the tree and back without getting caught by a lion. It's that the guys running these sites (the REAL controlling interests - NOT the ones they parade in public) didn't get where they are by rescuing kittens and building hospitals in 3rd world countries. I've said before though, that I come from a generation that remembers when if you used the words "bet" and "NFL" in the same sentence, Pete Rozell would be in your living room asking questions.
I remember the first time College Gameday started talking about betting lines on games. I was surprised by that, almost to the point of shock, and found it both gross and inappropriate to ESPN be tying gambling to college sports on national television. Still do. I haven't watched Gameday in forever, but the fact they were dedicating segments to bets on the games just seemed ethically bankrupt to me. But like everything else about college sports, ESPN paid for the rights and wanted to maximize their return on investment. More grime, more dirt. Now every game preview has betting lines, now there's segments for guys to speculate on taking points. ESPN and all the hangers-on whose livelihoods depend on their relationship with the sport, they've got it out there on the street corner working full time. Downward spiral.
 

WoodsmanVol

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I think that players with NIL
Money should have to pay for their tuition as well. Why not? They already get special privileges as athletes. So even the playing field. For all students.
On the surface, this sounds quite reasonable, but in reality, it's not. Here's the deal with fat cats, whether they run the money game behind the scenes of college sports or something else entirely. They got hedge fund schemes, various tax-evading schemes, funds-hiding off-shore and foreign bank schemes, and various other wealth hoard-hiding schemes. And they do this shamelessly, and lie, lie, lie about it even in the rare times they're caught red-handed. They have slick lawyers letting them escape subpoenas for testimony and records, in short break the law with impunity to hold onto their wealth. So, NIL players who continue to get full scholarships, well, it is as close as they can get to the filth-schemes employed by the fat cats, who we let have their cake and eat it too. Ain't capitalism just grand??!!??
 
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tennesseeduke

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There’s gotta be intervention and regulation at some point, right?
$8 million to a kid that’s never played in college is stupid! We’ve definitely seen over the years 5* busts! This whole thing started because someone wanted some bucks for their Jersey rights and now! WTF???
 

GoVols64

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I want to say at the outset that this is not a complaint about fairness. this isn't about winning or losing. This isn't about thinking that my school is now at an advantage or disadvantage.

I foresee a future where sometimes they're on top and sometimes they're not. And I'm ok with that. That's the way it's always been.

But, this NIL stuff. I surrender. The joy I had watching college football.....and I will still watch.....and I will still cheer......I'm not going to be one of those people who says they're through and you know damn well they're still watching. I'll be watching.

But, it's never going to be the same. And it sucks. It truly does.

It will not bring me the same level of joy it once did.

But, as you follow recruiting and the portal, it is utter madness. And one can say it's always been the case with recruits and money, but that's hogwash. It's never been close to this.

You've got portal numbers of anywhere from 10-20 players and recruiting classes of 20-25. Half the roster will be at the school for a year. You can't even get excited about recruiting because no one knows if the player is willing to wait two years to see the field.

It will never, ever be the same. Everyone will adapt because that's what you have to do to survive.

But, this isn't good.
I share your concerns and would only offer that everyone, for the most part, is suffering through this. It's a new landscape and the programs that adjust the fastest will have the advantage. Still, I question if we will ever have the wholesale love for the schools by some big names given they may be paid a lot of money to be there. TIme will tell.....
 

GoVols64

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Random thoughts while working through this thread (apologies if I missed a similar opinion). We need more structure to the portal and payments. Treat it like free agency in the NFL where there is a certain commitment you make to a program (2 years?) before you can transfer AND take money. Still gives the athlete the opportunity to move if the situation is toxic, just can't do it for $$$. No other school should be able to contact your players until in the portal too.

I know, good luck, but some structure is needed that protects the players and the institutions that spent a lot of time gaining their commitment.
 

Ashevillevol

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The portal is the key to all of it. They can sign whatever NIL that someone is willing to give them but you have to have some restrictions in place to tie them to that school for a longer period than one year.
If players are allowed to leave at any point without any consequence it will turn into highest bidder wins. We’ll be back to a handful of teams who are able to put 50M a year into player acquisition. It will be like the NFL with no salary cap.
There needs to be rules concerning when you can jump into the portal and how long you have to stay once you sign with a team
 

LAVol1

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Whatever you say, oh infallible one. Whatever you say. As we all know, truth is irrelevant when it comes to capitalism. Individuals aren't capitalism, rather it is a system of exploitation, which is why unions either are, or attempted to be formed. But whatever you say, oh, great one.
Truth: I grew up in a country that gave me opportunity, and I made the most of it. Sorry you think things are owed to you that you didn't earn. We live in the richest country in the world. Our "poor" are the most economically advantaged in the entire world. If you want to make a decent living, all you have to do is be willing to work for it. Not true in most other parts of the world. If you don't like it here, Delta is ready when you are.
 

VFL-82-JP

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Someone "surrendered" when the forward pass was introduced.

Someone "surrendered" when American football was integrated (and then re-integrated all over again a generation later).

Someone "surrendered" when Division I was divided into sub-divisions.

Someone "surrenders" every time the conferences see major realignment.

All of these changes, and others, foretold "the end of the game we know and love" to someone. Lots of someones, actually.

They were all wrong.

Stop surrendering. Don't be French. Be American. Fight on.

Go Vols!
 

VolBallGuy

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I want to say at the outset that this is not a complaint about fairness. this isn't about winning or losing. This isn't about thinking that my school is now at an advantage or disadvantage.

I foresee a future where sometimes they're on top and sometimes they're not. And I'm ok with that. That's the way it's always been.

But, this NIL stuff. I surrender. The joy I had watching college football.....and I will still watch.....and I will still cheer......I'm not going to be one of those people who says they're through and you know damn well they're still watching. I'll be watching.

But, it's never going to be the same. And it sucks. It truly does.

It will not bring me the same level of joy it once did.

But, as you follow recruiting and the portal, it is utter madness. And one can say it's always been the case with recruits and money, but that's hogwash. It's never been close to this.

You've got portal numbers of anywhere from 10-20 players and recruiting classes of 20-25. Half the roster will be at the school for a year. You can't even get excited about recruiting because no one knows if the player is willing to wait two years to see the field.

It will never, ever be the same. Everyone will adapt because that's what you have to do to survive.

But, this isn't good.
No matter what the reason, Gator tears are my reason for being. Carry on.
 

WoodsmanVol

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Truth: I grew up in a country that gave me opportunity, and I made the most of it. Sorry you think things are owed to you that you didn't earn. We live in the richest country in the world. Our "poor" are the most economically advantaged in the entire world. If you want to make a decent living, all you have to do is be willing to work for it. Not true in most other parts of the world. If you don't like it here, Delta is ready when you are.
Sometimes, even bad things create good results. Gila monster venom, for example, is used to make Byetta, a drug that is very helpful for people with Type 2 diabetes. The plant, Belladonna (deadly nightshade) is used for treating arthritis pain, colds, hay fever, bronchospasms caused by asthma, whooping cough, hemorrhoids, nerve problems, Parkinson's disease, colic, irritable bowel syndrome, and motion sickness. So, it's no shocking surprise that capitalism can have some positive effects too. The real issue is people who refuse or just can't see its adverse effects as well. The truth is ready when you are, assuming you will ever be ready to accept it.
 
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There were several kids that elected to stay in school because they will make more money in college than the nfl.

There are kids that are promoting for "collectives", that then pay the said kid who promoted for them. lmao.

Coaches try to tell the kid to come to X school for a chance to play? Oh ..." I got NIL contracts X coach, you will have the chance to coach me."

There will only be a couple of handfuls of schools that can play this game.
 

VFL-82-JP

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Sometimes, even bad things create good results. Gila monster venom, for example, is used to make Byetta, a drug that is very helpful for people with Type 2 diabetes. The plant, Belladonna (deadly nightshade) is used for treating arthritis pain, colds, hay fever, bronchospasms caused by asthma, whooping cough, hemorrhoids, nerve problems, Parkinson's disease, colic, irritable bowel syndrome, and motion sickness. So, it's no shocking surprise that capitalism can have some positive effects too. The real issue is people who refuse or just can't see its adverse effects as well. The truth is ready when you are, assuming you will ever be ready to accept it.
You should've said, "sometimes, even good things can yield bad results."

Because capitalism is a force for good. It is synonymous with "freedom" in the economic realm. And who doesn't love freedom?

The freedom to take chances. To try. To succeed. To fail. Even to succeed or fail wildly. And I'm guessing your problem with capitalism is that a very small percentage of us do. Succeed or fail wildly. Become billionaires or abject paupers. You complain about the ones who beat the odds and win, or fail spectacularly.

Okay. I get it. It is human nature to be jealous of people who have what you don't. Not very admirable, but human nature.

So we could curb the excesses, limit the extremes, without giving up freedom for most folks.

The truth is ready when you are, Woodsman, assuming you can ever accept it. :)



[sorry to go all economic/social/political in a thread ostensibly devoted to football, but really more about bellyaching]
 
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Volfan76

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I want to say at the outset that this is not a complaint about fairness. this isn't about winning or losing. This isn't about thinking that my school is now at an advantage or disadvantage.

I foresee a future where sometimes they're on top and sometimes they're not. And I'm ok with that. That's the way it's always been.

But, this NIL stuff. I surrender. The joy I had watching college football.....and I will still watch.....and I will still cheer......I'm not going to be one of those people who says they're through and you know damn well they're still watching. I'll be watching.

But, it's never going to be the same. And it sucks. It truly does.

It will not bring me the same level of joy it once did.

But, as you follow recruiting and the portal, it is utter madness. And one can say it's always been the case with recruits and money, but that's hogwash. It's never been close to this.

You've got portal numbers of anywhere from 10-20 players and recruiting classes of 20-25. Half the roster will be at the school for a year. You can't even get excited about recruiting because no one knows if the player is willing to wait two years to see the field.

It will never, ever be the same. Everyone will adapt because that's what you have to do to survive.

But, this isn't good.
I agree. If drastic changes aren't made, this will be the end of college football as we know it....and it may already be too late.
 
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This was thing at kentucky (not sure which players) and a west coast school as well. I was listening to espn radio in the back ground and they mentioned it. I took notice. A third round rookie nfl contract isn't much!
 

WoodsmanVol

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You should've said, "sometimes, even good things can yield bad results."
Because capitalism is a force for good. It is synonymous with "freedom" in the economic realm. And who doesn't love freedom?
The freedom to take chances. To try. To succeed. To fail. Even to succeed or fail wildly. And I'm guessing your problem with capitalism is that a very small percentage of us do. Succeed or fail wildly. Become billionaires or abject paupers. You complain about the ones who beat the odds and win, or fail spectacularly.
Okay. I get it. It is human nature to be jealous of people who have what you don't. Not very admirable, but human nature.
So we could curb the excesses, limit the extremes, without giving up freedom for most folks.
The truth is ready when you are, Woodsman, assuming you can ever accept it. :)
[sorry to go all economic/social/political in a thread ostensibly devoted to football, but really more about bellyaching]
You and I are strolling along a different path, despite not being that far apart on the core of things. If you go back to the origin of my posts on this thread, you will see it deals with far less than an attack on capitalism, and more with a, "we're experiencing it with this NIL thing." My posts deal with my believing it fair and square for NIL players to enjoy and take advantages of capitalism which this whole NIL thing makes available to them. DESPITE, the misgivings of those who decry it. You on the other hand are walking down a path where you feel you must defend capitalism at all costs. And therein lies the truth of the matter, whether VFL-82-JPistric or WoodsmanVolistric. I suspect, you're intentionally misunderstanding my posts, or perhaps you failed to see I'm making fun of pro-capitalists, yes, mocking them for bemoaning it in its pure form evident in the NIL. We just don't walk together, you and I, which is probably just as well, as we might, goodness forbid, end up liking each other. :eek:

Two roads diverged in a yellow wood,
And sorry I could not travel both
And be one traveler, long I stood
And looked down one as far as I could
To where it bent in the undergrowth;

Then took the other, as just as fair,
And having perhaps the better claim,
Because it was grassy and wanted wear;
Though as for that, the passing there
Had worn them really about the same,


Oh, I kept the first for another day!
I shall be telling this with a sigh
Somewhere ages and ages hence:
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.
-R. Frost-
 
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VolPack22

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The NIL isn’t really a big issue to me. It’s the potential tampering with kids that are not actively in the transfer portal. The situation with the Pitt WR and USC is a good example of this. The kid just entered into the portal today but USC had already contacted the kid. It’s comparable to an NFL team reaching out to a player on an opposing team that is still under contract. That’s probably the biggest issue I see right now that needs to be addressed. In the NFL, they can take away draft picks, assess fines and void a contract with a player found to be tampered with. Something like that could easily be implemented in college: significant reduction in scholarships, fining/suspension of coaches involved, the AD, and the school, as well as voiding the enrollment of the tampered player to that university.
 

VFL-82-JP

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You and I are strolling along a different path, despite not being that far apart on the core of things. If you go back to the origin of my posts on this thread, you will see it deals with far less than an attack on capitalism, and more with a, "we're experiencing it with this NIL thing." My posts deal with my believing it fair and square for NIL players to enjoy and take advantages of capitalism this while NIL thing makes available to them. DESPITE, the misgivings of those who decry it. You on the other hand are walking down a path where you feel you must defend capitalism at all costs. And therein lies the truth of the matter, whether VFL-82-JPistric or WoodsmanVolistric. I suspect, you're intentionally misunderstanding my posts, or perhaps you failed to see I'm making fun of pro-capitalists, yes, mocking them for bemoaning it in its pure form evident in the NIL. We just don't walk together, you and I, which is probably just as well, as we might, for goodness forbid, end up liking each other. :eek:

Two roads diverged in a yellow wood,
And sorry I could not travel both
And be one traveler, long I stood
And looked down one as far as I could
To where it bent in the undergrowth;

Then took the other, as just as fair,
And having perhaps the better claim,
Because it was grassy and wanted wear;
Though as for that, the passing there
Had worn them really about the same,


Oh, I kept the first for another day!
I shall be telling this with a sigh
Somewhere ages and ages hence:
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.
-R. Frost-
Heh. Nicely responded.

I don't defend capitalism at all costs, though. There are plenty of things I would defend far more strongly. Family. Faith. Friends. Country.

But I am, it is true, utterly exhausted of this younger generation who attack capitalism. People who benefit every single day, in ways they can't even recognize, from the freedom and bounty that accompanies it. I find them hypocritical, naïve, and pedantic.

I misunderstood you. For that, you have my apology. But I don't apologize for pointing out the value of the economic system that has made the people of this world so very much better off than any era before in human history.

Go Vols!
 
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WoodsmanVol

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Heh. Nicely responded.
I don't defend capitalism at all costs, though. There are plenty of things I would defend far more strongly. Family. Faith. Friends. Country.
But I am, it is true, utterly exhausted of this younger generation who attack capitalism. People who benefit every single day, in ways they can't even recognize, from the freedom and bounty that accompanies it. I find them hypocritical, naïve, and pedantic.
I misunderstood you. For that, you have my apology. But I don't apologize for pointing out the value of the economic system that has made the people of this world so very much better off than any era before in human history.
Go Vols!
 
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utvols74

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Coaches used to be judged by:
1) on field, in-game decisions
2) pre-game strategy and scheming
3) recruiting
4) relations with boosters and alumni

..now..

1) on field, in-game decisions
2) securing NIL deals and marketing them to potential athletes
3) mastering the portal on an ongoing basis
4) relations with boosters and alumni (for NIL deals)
5) recruiting
 

Volanta

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I want to say at the outset that this is not a complaint about fairness. this isn't about winning or losing. This isn't about thinking that my school is now at an advantage or disadvantage.

I foresee a future where sometimes they're on top and sometimes they're not. And I'm ok with that. That's the way it's always been.

But, this NIL stuff. I surrender. The joy I had watching college football.....and I will still watch.....and I will still cheer......I'm not going to be one of those people who says they're through and you know damn well they're still watching. I'll be watching.

But, it's never going to be the same. And it sucks. It truly does.

It will not bring me the same level of joy it once did.

But, as you follow recruiting and the portal, it is utter madness. And one can say it's always been the case with recruits and money, but that's hogwash. It's never been close to this.

You've got portal numbers of anywhere from 10-20 players and recruiting classes of 20-25. Half the roster will be at the school for a year. You can't even get excited about recruiting because no one knows if the player is willing to wait two years to see the field.

It will never, ever be the same. Everyone will adapt because that's what you have to do to survive.

But, this isn't good.
So you don’t like it because the teams turnover too rapidly? That it?
 

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