I lost the locker room over NIL payments last year

[LSU-SIU]

Most of the money IS coming from outside the schools TECHNICALLY but it's obvious the school is very involved. You're just ignoring that. NIL would dry straight up with negotiated salaries of substance for players coming from the team. That's as much a ruse as amateur athletics was at elite schools before NIL. NIL is a bandaid to fully pay athletes, a poor bandaid. VERY VERY VERY few college athletes have real serious NIL value.

Tampering exists in the NFL, NBA, and MLB but not a whole lot. The owners are in agreement that it's not good for the leagues. And by all means NOT ALL SCHOOLS NEED TO GO PRO. I envision about 40-50, at most in football. More or less might need to join in basketball.

Comparing athletics to fast food where literally ANYONE can work shows a lack of understanding of the talent of the workers. It's the scarcity of talent that gives us the salaries we see in pro leagues. People not wanting to work at all gives the chaos in fast food because those jobs don't require specialized skills.

Its exactly the same you are emotionally attached, its just a business. Talent is relative, what you are trying to do is implement a strategy that limits the market because that is what you want i.e caps, but in this case caps wouldn't make sense... what next a draft?

Tampering exists in the NFL, NBA, and MLB but not a whole lot.

But you will have other leagues and the traditional pro leagues - same thing. You still have to compete. Tampering among the leagues.

Most of the money IS coming from outside the schools TECHNICALLY but it's obvious the school is very involved.

Its irrelevant, the vast majority of the money is not going to come from the school so the cap would be immaterial, if anything it would hurt the ones in the league as the school would be capped, a non-league school could implement the payments. What you are really doing is setting up a greater market for the players with no real benefit to the league schools - not really.

- no draft
- no real cap
- assuming the ability to limit player movement but you are competing with non-league so the players could transfer outside
- tampering would still be a thing just like it is today
- players would be consider "employees" which subject them to other State and Federal Acts

Exactly what did you "fix"?

NIL is a bandaid to fully pay athletes, a poor bandaid. VERY VERY VERY few college athletes have real serious NIL value.

The NIL is a scam to pretend all these college coaches and college administrators shouldn't be in jail.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Its exactly the same you are emotionally attached, its just a business. Talent is relative, what you are trying to do is implement a strategy that limits the market because that is what you want i.e caps, but in this case caps wouldn't make sense... what next a draft?



But you will have other leagues and the traditional pro leagues - same thing. You still have to compete. Tampering among the leagues.



Its irrelevant, the vast majority of the money is not going to come from the school so the cap would be immaterial, if anything it would hurt the ones in the league as the school would be capped, a non-league school could implement the payments. What you are really doing is setting up a greater market for the players with no real benefit to the league schools - not really.

- no draft
- no real cap
- assuming the ability to limit player movement but you are competing with non-league so the players could transfer outside
- tampering would still be a thing just like it is today
- players would be consider "employees" which subject them to other State and Federal Acts

Exactly what did you "fix"?



The NIL is a scam to pretend all these college coaches and college administrators shouldn't be in jail.

Yes, a draft. I'm not talking about school or traditional college sports surviving, I'm talking about what works in pro sports to make them successful. Lots of leagues don't for competitive reasons.

It would be great if Congress would provide a specific age related Antitrust Exemption for college but I'm not holding my breath.

Yes, it should look EXACTLY like the NFL or actually closer to minor league baseball in some ways.

You're mistaking me for a diehard, traditional college football fan. I'm no longer that. I'm hopeful for a future of his good Saturdays with quality football and guys on the field who get their share just like the guys on Sunday.

 

[VolsSportsFan]

It's no longer college football, is semi pro football played at colleges and universities.

This is hilarous.

It stopped being college football decades ago when it became mega big business. Everyone sat back and didn't have a fraction of the reaction about more bowls, more regular season games, conference expansion/changing, conference championship games, major bowl payouts, coaches making truckloads of money, and tv/media contracts making billions. But now when the players start wanting in (at least out in the open and legally), so many lose their minds and whine about how it's no longer college football.

ROFL get bent, this train left the station about 40 years ago at least, and now everyone has a problem when it reaches the conclusion it was going to hit. It's laughable the pearl clutching. Does it need to be regulated? Sure, but paying the players isn't the problem.

 

[CobbWebb71]

Head coaches have to have help with this stuff or it can/will go sideways really quick. Having a GM seems the way to go.

How the rise of the college football GM started in a windowless room in Tuscaloosa

The title of personnel director or general manager might not have existed 15 years ago, but now, college football can't function without them.

www.espn.com

Damn Willis!!
You just hit on something that I had not thought about.
That is forward thinking my friend and will probably, eventually become reality.
Good thing for Heup, Volnation is full of armchair GMs from which to choose...

 

[CobbWebb71]

This is hilarous.

It stopped being college football decades ago when it became mega big business. Everyone sat back and didn't have a fraction of the reaction about more bowls, more regular season games, conference expansion/changing, conference championship games, major bowl payouts, coaches making truckloads of money, and tv/media contracts making billions. But now when the players start wanting in (at least out in the open and legally), so many lose their minds and whine about how it's no longer college football.

ROFL get bent, this train left the station about 40 years ago at least, and now everyone has a problem when it reaches the conclusion it was going to hit. It's laughable the pearl clutching. Does it need to be regulated? Sure, but paying the players isn't the problem.

Whoa bud, I’ve been b!tching about all of the above for quite a while now.
College football went to for me, way before NIL.
You were either naive or dumb, if you couldn’t see the direction this thing was headed.
I remember when Fulmer inked his big contract, thinking this is about to get out of hand.

 

[Lawrence Wright]

And in exactly one month, the overwhelming majority of people here will continue to watch and enjoy college football as they always have.

 

[VolBallGuy]

Pay the kids in gold. That will confuse everyone.

 

[WillisWG]

Pay the kids in gold. That will confuse everyone.

Just invent a crypto coin $SEC or $VOL$

 

[LSU-SIU]

Yes, a draft. I'm not talking about school or traditional college sports surviving, I'm talking about what works in pro sports to make them successful. Lots of leagues don't for competitive reasons.

It would be great if Congress would provide a specific age related Antitrust Exemption for college but I'm not holding my breath.

Yes, it should look EXACTLY like the NFL or actually closer to minor league baseball in some ways.

You're mistaking me for a diehard, traditional college football fan. I'm no longer that. I'm hopeful for a future of his good Saturdays with quality football and guys on the field who get their share just like the guys on Sunday.

It doesn't matter what you are, what you are suggesting doesn't appear to do much of anything. A draft will not work as you will have colleges which won't be part of the league, they players can go where the money is. The whole premise of what you are suggesting doesn't solve any of the issues you have pointed out, in fact, I would say it will make it worse. It won't be like the NFL or minor league baseball. You basically can't control the market because a vast portion of the schools won't even be involved as they're not going to want to classify the players as employees. I don't understand why everyone is busy trying to fix someone else's business. Yes, I think you are one of those diehards, which is why you are trying to "fix" something.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

It doesn't matter what you are, what you are suggesting doesn't appear to do much of anything. A draft will not work as you will have colleges which won't be part of the league, they players can go where the money is. The whole premise of what you are suggesting doesn't solve any of the issues you have pointed out, in fact, I would say it will make it worse. It won't be like the NFL or minor league baseball. You basically can't control the market because a vast portion of the schools won't even be involved as they're not going to want to classify the players as employees. I don't understand why everyone is busy trying to fix someone else's business. Yes, I think you are one of those diehards, which is why you are trying to "fix" something.

That's not it at all. I'm looking for the players to get paid and be protected AND the schools to continue the business and be protected.

That you think the pro sports model doesn't work is nuts. The draft doesn't keep guys from going to Canada or Europe or wherever to play their sport.

A pro sports model definitely fixes the the chaos of the failing NCAA model by allowing limited rights for both players and schools and makes it all negotiable. AND it stops most of the lawsuits because Antitrust issues are covered with the collective bargaining.

It sucks traditionally but I'm older and have seen changes from dial up phones to cell phones, etc. It will be okay.

 

[LSU-SIU]

That's not it at all. I'm looking for the players to get paid and be protected AND the schools to continue the business and be protected.

That you think the pro sports model doesn't work is nuts. The draft doesn't keep guys from going to Canada or Europe or wherever to play their sport.

A pro sports model definitely fixes the the chaos of the failing NCAA model by allowing limited rights for both players and schools and makes it all negotiable. AND it stops most of the lawsuits because Antitrust issues are covered with the collective bargaining.

It sucks traditionally but I'm older and have seen changes from dial up phones to cell phones, etc. It will be okay.

There is no pro or amateur sports model. As far as the NFL, NBA, etc. they have either an exemption or partial exemption from the Sherman Act, I personally think they should operate just like everyone else. As far as the colleges, lots of people should be in prison. I never said it doesn't "work", I am saying what you are saying in context is probably not going to work.

There is no chaos, the games are being played just like always.

schools to continue the business and be protected

The schools basically claimed its not a business, its just student sports. I personally don't care if they all drown like rats in pool of piss.

AND it stops most of the lawsuits because Antitrust issues are covered with the collective bargaining

Or they can comply with existing law. At least they're not being criminally prosecuted for it yet.

The issue isn't that it can't work out for a business, but in this instance it really doesn't change much and probably will make it worse as than you have competing leagues - the whole purpose of the exemption is to eliminate competition... in this instance it would actually increase the competition.

The problem is - the schools really aren't paying the players now, and even some of the revenue sharing that is starting to take place is limited. What you are suggesting isn't going to easily change anything that I can see i.e. there will be multiple leagues some with caps and really nobody has caps as most of the money being generated now is not the schools. Basically if you here a sound its the sound of all this revenue going out the door.

Once the schools start calling their football players "employees" than the race is on that all the sport players are "employees" and those free student helpers, well, they're "employees" too.

The schools really aren't looking at this because all free money goes out the door. Why would they want to be involved in unions, employees, strikes, expenses in salary, ssa, disability, taxes, etc.?

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

There is no pro or amateur sports model. As far as the NFL, NBA, etc. they have either an exemption or partial exemption from the Sherman Act, I personally think they should operate just like everyone else. As far as the colleges, lots of people should be in prison. I never said it doesn't "work", I am saying what you are saying in context is probably not going to work.

There is no chaos, the games are being played just like always.



The schools basically claimed its not a business, its just student sports. I personally don't care if they all drown like rats in pool of piss.



Or they can comply with existing law. At least they're not being criminally prosecuted for it yet.

The issue isn't that it can't work out for a business, but in this instance it really doesn't change much and probably will make it worse as than you have competing leagues - the whole purpose of the exemption is to eliminate competition... in this instance it would actually increase the competition.

The problem is - the schools really aren't paying the players now, and even some of the revenue sharing that is starting to take place is limited. What you are suggesting isn't going to easily change anything that I can see i.e. there will be multiple leagues some with caps and really nobody has caps as most of the money being generated now is not the schools. Basically if you here a sound its the sound of all this revenue going out the door.

Once the schools start calling their football players "employees" than the race is on that all the sport players are "employees" and those free student helpers, well, they're "employees" too.

The schools really aren't looking at this because all free money goes out the door. Why would they want to be involved in unions, employees, strikes, expenses in salary, ssa, disability, taxes, etc.?

The schools want to be involved having been catalysts in many of the lawsuits which toppled the NCAA AND people like Danny White suggesting collective bargaining will help the chaos.

Danny White has a far better grasp of things than us and he's not the only AD suggesting massive changes in how college athletics works. Schools are also hiring General Managers, like the pros, and Kentucky has turned their Athletic Department into an LLC.

You're ignoring what's happening to simply argue. Changes in the form of college athletics are ACTUALLY happening as we've seen with the House settlement (which is a poor try but an attempt to change things, another band-aid like NIL was) and actual changes in the way schools conduct athletic business via the use of General Managers to let professionals negotiate with players instead of coaches.

Ignore it. Say it isn't happening. Whatever. I'm not about to argue with you about the reality that's inching along. College sports is morphing toward a pro model.

 

[Firebirdparts]

I don't think anybody is confused about that - it's been posted in this forum 2000 times.

It'll be interesting to see whether it has the same value as all the other semi-pro sports. that's the curiosity. And it doesn't matter what we say about it now. I guess that's all obvious, though. I hope so anyway.

 

[vollygirl]

Too bad the NCAA didn't pay attention when the IOC started allowing "professional" athletes (aka athletes who had endoresement deals) to compete in the Olympics.

Let the Big Al's Suits and Fedoras owner pay the guys on the bama o-line something to be in a commerical showing how good his suits fit their big round bodies. Let the bail bondsman in Athens pay the running back something for being in the commercial where he drives his car past the cop shooting radar. Let the student athletes get paid for their commercial appeal the same as any other student on campus.

Not fair to other athletes? Life ain't fair. Smaller school athletes don't get those opportunities? Not everybody gets the same opportunities. That's how it is every where, for all of us.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Too bad the NCAA didn't pay attention when the IOC started allowing "professional" athletes (aka athletes who had endoresement deals) to compete in the Olympics.

Let the Big Al's Suits and Fedoras owner pay the guys on the bama o-line something to be in a commerical showing how good his suits fit their big round bodies. Let the bail bondsman in Athens pay the running back something for being in the commercial where he drives his car past the cop shooting radar. Let the student athletes get paid for their commercial appeal the same as any other student on campus.

Not fair to other athletes? Life ain't fair. Smaller school athletes don't get those opportunities? Not everybody gets the same opportunities. That's how it is every where, for all of us.

The problem of "not fair" is Title IX which wants schools to be somewhat fair in investing in sports among genders.

Only elite schools need to go pro and that's a knot to untangle also.

My suggestion has been for schools like UT to spin the revenue sports away from the Athletic Dept off as a real business to avoid Title IX. Lease the facilities and logos and all that for big money but stay out of court over women's sports and non revenue sports.

 

[LSU-SIU]

The schools want to be involved having been catalysts in many of the lawsuits which toppled the NCAA AND people like Danny White suggesting collective bargaining will help the chaos.

Danny White has a far better grasp of things than us and he's not the only AD suggesting massive changes in how college athletics works. Schools are also hiring General Managers, like the pros, and Kentucky has turned their Athletic Department into an LLC.

You're ignoring what's happening to simply argue. Changes in the form of college athletics are ACTUALLY happening as we've seen with the House settlement (which is a poor try but an attempt to change things, another band-aid like NIL was) and actual changes in the way schools conduct athletic business via the use of General Managers to let professionals negotiate with players instead of coaches.

Ignore it. Say it isn't happening. Whatever. I'm not about to argue with you about the reality that's inching along. College sports is morphing toward a pro model.

I don't know what there is to "help" and I don't see "chaos", the games are being played.

Danny White has a far better grasp of things than us and he's not the only AD suggesting massive changes in how college athletics works. Schools are also hiring General Managers, like the pros, and Kentucky has turned their Athletic Department into an LLC.

I don't remember Danny White talking about any of this 10-15 years ago like some of us on the board were, you can check my post history from probably 12-13 years ago telling everyone that the players would end up being paid in the open.

College sports is morphing toward a pro model.

There is no pro or amateur model, see U.S. Supreme Court decision. If you mean an exemption or partial exemption from the Sherman Act, sure I guess some schools could move under that, I would actually predict it will probably happen for some. It doesn't really provide much in this instance and you will be back to its "chaos".

You are comparing apples to oranges, than you are saying an orange is apple because Danny White says something that has no direct context to the discussion.

(you probably can find posts of mine from 2011-2012 on this subject) nortwestern football players looking to join a union

> I don't see the problem, the market appears to be working in part but probably schools need to be allowed to pay if they wish
> even if there was a problem, what you suggest doesn't really change what is going on as there will be competing leagues

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

I don't know what there is to "help" and I don't see "chaos", the games are being played.



I don't remember Danny White talking about any of this 10-15 years ago like some of us on the board were, you can check my post history from probably 12-13 years ago telling everyone that the players would end up being paid in the open.


There is no pro or amateur model, see U.S. Supreme Court decision. If you mean an exemption or partial exemption from the Sherman Act, sure I guess some schools could move under that, I would actually predict it will probably happen for some. It doesn't really provide much in this instance and you will be back to its "chaos".

You are comparing apples to oranges, than you are saying an orange is apple because Danny White says something that has no direct context to the discussion.

(you probably can find posts of mine from 2011-2012 on this subject) nortwestern football players looking to join a union

As if ANYONE......I MEAN ANYONE...... cares about your post history from a decade ago???? Are you THAT starved for recognition?

Pathetic.

 

[LSU-SIU]

As if ANYONE......I MEAN ANYONE...... cares about your post history from a decade ago???? Are you THAT starved for recognition?

Pathetic.

What is pathetic is you failing to have a discussion and saying "Danny White this", and "Danny White that".... Danny white isn't here. You really haven't addressed anything of value in your posts.

Yes, you are one of those crazy football fans.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

What is pathetic is you failing to have a discussion and saying "Danny White this", and "Danny White that".... Danny white isn't here. You really haven't addressed anything of value in your posts.

Yes, you are one of those crazy football fans.

Bless your heart. You bring up your message history to try to build yourself up. Twice in the same message.

Yeah, it's pathetic. It's a fan message board and you need recognition for things you said a decade ago? What else could it be but pathetic.

 

[LSU-SIU]

Bless your heart. You bring up your message history to try to build yourself up. Twice in the same message.

Yeah, it's pathetic. It's a fan message board and you need recognition for things you said a decade ago? What else could it be but pathetic.

No, its all common sense. You are the same as the silly people that were out here arguing that players wouldn't get paid. I bring the old stuff up because many of us already knew what the schools was and is doing was criminal behavior. You just don't care, you care about your FOOSBALL. So, you are angry at me for telling the truth, you don't like it... not much I can do about it. I can say nothing you have suggested would actually cure what you think is chaos, not that I can see.

The best business model they could have was the slave labor model, everything else is going to squeeze the margins.

(I think I might have a post from 10+ years ago about the problems they would have once the scam collapsed - it was/is a pure criminal scam at scale, as I said what you suggest doesn't really give you what you want as all the schools won't be on board and for obvious reasons)

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

No, its all common sense. You are the same as the silly people that were out here arguing that players wouldn't get paid. I bring the old stuff up because many of us already knew what the schools was and is doing was criminal behavior. You just don't care, you care about your FOOSBALL. So, you are angry at me for telling the truth, you don't like it... not much I can do about it. I can say nothing you have suggested would actually cure what you think is chaos, not that I can see.

The best business model they could have was the slave labor model, everything else is going to squeeze the margins.

I'm not angry and haven't responded angrily to your posts. At all.

You've put feelings on me from the start that I haven't experienced once in our conversation. Not once and I have denied wanting "the old way" back because I realize that ship has sailed.

I'd rather the lawsuits stop. I'd rather the players have contracts. I'd rather the schools have guidelines they have to follow to negotiate with the players as a group commonly known as collective bargaining.

I'm not angry about it but I'd prefer, like pro sports, contracts are negotiated, the sports as a whole have clear rules for negotiations with players, and the coaches aren't saddled with renegotiating with players continually about compensation.

Why? Because it's how successful pro leagues are working. Nothing more, nothing less. I would like to see efficiency so the football can still be high quality on Saturdays and the conversation can be all about the football, not about the lawsuits and uncertainty of where things are going.

 

[LSU-SIU]

I'd rather the lawsuits stop. I'd rather the players have contracts. I'd rather the schools have guidelines they have to follow to negotiate with the players as a group commonly known as collective bargaining.

1. The lawsuits have to do with the schools and the ncaa violating law, stop violating the law.
2. Legally the players can have contracts, the problem has been #1 in that regard.
3. Legally the schools can negotiate with the players, the problem generally has to do with #1 - although some states might have restricted due to state funds. In that instance, even Congress can't help those schools.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

1. The lawsuits have to do with the schools and the ncaa violating law, stop violating the law.
2. Legally the players can have contracts, the problem has been #1 in that regard.
3. Legally the schools can negotiate with the players, the problem generally has to do with #1 - although some states might have restricted due to state funds.

1. Agree.
2. Agree.
3. The problem is no employee status means no union which means collective bargaining cannot really occur. I'm not an attorney but I think SOME kind of employee group, usually a union or guild or something, negotiates. Courts have not completely settled the USC case, as far as I know, on allowing a union there. That one matters because they are a B1G school. Dartmouth, I believe, got the right to unionize but then the team apparently voted against forming/joining a union.

Things are not fully clear cut yet but as I've been saying that's the direction college athletics is heading. The NCAA isn't onboard (as far as it seems) yet with employee status but the courts will likely rule players are employees.

After that, hopefully, either Congress tries to "unemploy" college athletes via legislation and specific Antitrust status for college athletes OR schools begin collective bargaining.

I'd prefer the former but I expect the latter and messy collective bargaining until the two sides learn to work together.

Seriously, all I want is stable rosters ESTABLISHED LEGALLY VIA CONTRACTS and decent football on Saturday without all the talk of "So, Jimmy, how do you think this last lawsuit about transfers is going to play out?" instead of talk about football during the game.

 

[LSU-SIU]

3. The problem is no employee status means no union which means collective bargaining cannot really occur.

The schools can make them employees, generally see #1. Not a sane person in those schools want that to happen for obvious reasons.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

The schools can make them employees, generally see #1. Not a sane person in those schools want that to happen for obvious reasons.

Again, suggestions of collective bargaining from school officials seem to say they're coming around to the realization that the only future is what's working for successful pro leagues.

Collective bargaining almost assures the courts will declare players are employees and yes, that's an enormous red flag for the NCAA and schools for lots of reasons.

Still, that's the direction so there's no sense in me saying it isn't and more sense in trying to see how that structure works best.

That leads me back to looking at the pro sports organizations and how the successful ones operate. I suggest the schools that are large sports revenue schools (mostly P-4 schools) move sports away from the school legally, lease the facilities and logos and such, avoid Title IX issues by being pro leagues, not college leagues, and move on from there.