Hypothetical Situation...

[tvols75]

Mullen
Muschamp
Franklin
Richt

That's all I got for SEC. Like I said, you can get a BCS job. Usually not a top 25-30 job.

Then you go and look at guys like Stoops (SEC coordinator), Lane Kiffin (NFL coach but was looked at by colleges for HC based on being USC's co-coordinator), Sarkisian, and current SEC coordinators like Smart and Malzahn.

 

[LawVol13]

And I would agree except that my definition of success at the moment is setting the table nicely for the next guy

I don't disagree with that at all. The point is that if more than half our staff changes, there's a good chance that we lose several recruits. Then, Dooley would not be setting the table anymore.

 

[zjcvols]

Then you go and look at guys like Stoops (SEC coordinator), Lane Kiffin (NFL coach but was looked at by colleges for HC based on being USC's co-coordinator), Sarkisian, and current SEC coordinators like Smart and Malzahn.

I didn't say you could get a BCS job. I said the best way to get a top 25-30 job is to go the mid major route. And that's 4 out of 30.

 

[LawVol13]

I didn't say you could get a BCS job. I said the best way to get a top 25-30 job is to go the mid major route. And that's 4 out of 30.

I think you're right.

 

[justingroves]

Not so sure about that, many BCS coordinators get amazing jobs. The SEC is full of them.

4 of 12

Then you go and look at guys like Stoops (SEC coordinator), Lane Kiffin (NFL coach but was looked at by colleges for HC based on being USC's co-coordinator), Sarkisian, and current SEC coordinators like Smart and Malzahn.

When Smart and Malzahn get a HC gig, they'll count.

So one other guy huh?

You're on fire

 

[BruinVol]

You guys agree that JW could get a BGSU type job after next year even if DD is fired?
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[LawVol13]

4 of 12



When Smart and Malzahn get a HC gig, they'll count.

So one other guy huh?

You're on fire

And Smart is being courted by perennial power, Ole Piss, while Malzahn is rumored to be talking to the football dynasty known as North Carolina who is under NCAA sanctions. Unbelievable jobs these guys are getting.

 

[justingroves]

Next year is our best chance to win, period.

Dooley stays, he'll ride Bray and Hunter and Rogers to 8 wins (losing to UGA, USCe, either UF or Mizzou and Bama) and people like tvols will claim "See, I told you he would fix it!!!"

Then Tennessee is stuck for another year with an at best mediocre coach.

 

[tvols75]

I didn't say you could get a BCS job. I said the best way to get a top 25-30 job is to go the mid major route.

Maybe so, but I disagree.

Some of the top jobs

Florida- Coordinator

Georgia- Coordinator

USC- Coordinator (granted he was an NFL coach, but he also was sough after when being USC's coordinator).

Oklahoma- Coordinator

LSU- Les never was at a mid-major and was a coordinator before OSU.


But that is besides the point, I think it's pretty even on the top 25-30 jobs on coordinators and mid major coaches getting the nod. With Wilcox and his recruiting, I think he is best working his magic as a coordinator rather than trying to win at a mid major.

 

[BruinVol]

I didn't say you could get a BCS job. I said the best way to get a top 25-30 job is to go the mid major route. And that's 4 out of 30.

Let's assume JW stays here and we get this program turned around.

Or JW takes the UAB job and gets them to a Cusa championship in 5years.

Which one gets him a BCS job sooner?
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[justingroves]

You guys agree that JW could get a BGSU type job after next year even if DD is fired?
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He probably could but I don't think he wants a head coaching job at a gutter program.

He can make just as much money as a DC and wait for a job offer to be a HC at a mid major dedicated to putting a decent team on the field or a Louisville type job.

 

[WesternKyVol]

Dooley stays, he'll ride Bray and Hunter and Rogers to 8 wins (losing to UGA, USCe, either UF or Mizzou and Bama) and people like tvols will claim "See, I told you he would fix it!!!"

Then Tennessee is stuck for another year with an at best mediocre coach.

Worst case scenario in my eyes. 8-5 convinces all the people who started watching football in the year 2000 that we are somehow back.

 

[zjcvols]

Let's assume JW stays here and we get this program turned around.

Or JW takes the UAB job and gets them to a Cusa championship in 5years.

Which one gets him a BCS job sooner?
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Depends on a lot of things though. When does the program turn around? When does he take the UAB job? What type of BCS job does he get, a top 25 one, or a Colorado type?

 

[LawVol13]

Maybe so, but I disagree.

Some of the top jobs

Florida- Coordinator

Georgia- Coordinator

USC- Coordinator (granted he was an NFL coach, but he also was sough after when being USC's coordinator).

Oklahoma- Coordinator

LSU- Les never was at a mid-major and was a coordinator before OSU.


But that is besides the point, I think it's pretty even on the top 25-30 jobs on coordinators and mid major coaches getting the nod. With Wilcox and his recruiting, I think he is best working his magic as a coordinator rather than trying to win at a mid major.

Right. Except LSU hired Miles when he was a sitting head coach at a BCS program. Lane Kiffin was hired by USC after being a head coach in the NFL and a BCS program. And, Muschamp was the head coach in waiting at possibly the most high profile job in America. Other than those small details, they moved directly from being a coordinator to amazing jobs, except not really.

 

[BruinVol]

Depends on a lot of things though. When does the program turn around? When does he take the UAB job? What type of BCS job does he get, a top 25 one, or a Colorado type?

I am trying to put myself in JW shoes and heres what I come up with.

I have no fear about a sinking ship because I can get a lower HC job or another DC job next year even if we fail.

I think the failures at Tennessee are a great thing for my career because if we have a few good years I will be seen as a savior and parley that into a middle of the road BCS type job.

If I go to another school as a DC this year it might only delay my plan to be a bigtime HC.


Coaches have 5,10,20 year plans and if he left tennessee now I think he starts those plans over at 0.
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[bpalmer28]

Next year is our best chance to win, period.

In the last 5 years? Yes, but we're not close to competing for a championship and chasing short term dreams isn't worth jeopardizing the long term benefit of the program, especially when it involves asking every player on the roster who hasn't transferred to learn a new system, then those guys move on in a couple years and we are left talking about how bad the 2012 recruiting class was... Back to square one.

We need 85 solid players on our roster before making another coaching change.

 

[tvols75]

Right. Except LSU hired Miles when he was a sitting head coach at a BCS program. Lane Kiffin was hired by USC after being a head coach in the NFL and a BCS program. And, Muschamp was the head coach in waiting at possibly the most high profile job in America. Other than those small details, they moved directly from being a coordinator to amazing jobs, except not really.

Kiffin went from coordinator to NFL job to two top 15 college jobs. Pretty amazing.

Les Miles went from coordinator to NFL position coach to turning around OSU. Didn't have to go mid-major route.

Muschamp was still a coordinator was he not when he got the HC in waiting tag?

Give me your list of major BCS conference coordinators who went to mid-majors before taking over as HC of major programs. The list is very small.

I think Wilcox would love to have the success of those three named along with Richt, Stoops, etc... who went from Coordinators to good jobs rather than mid-majors.

I know you are looking for something argument but this one is dumb.

 

[zjcvols]

I am trying to put myself in JW shoes and heres what I come up with.

I have no fear about a sinking ship because I can get a lower HC job or another DC job next year even if we fail.

I think the failures at Tennessee are a great thing for my career because if we have a few good years I will be seen as a savior and parley that into a middle of the road BCS type job.

If I go to another school as a DC this year it might only delay my plan to be a bigtime HC.


Coaches have 5,10,20 year plans and if he left tennessee now I think he starts those plans over at 0.
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If a BCS job came calling right now, I would leave right now and take Sirmon with me, except maybe for a couple Big East jobs. If all I got was mid major jobs, it would completely depend on the mid major job. I wouldn't leave for UAB. But if Houston came up...maybe...

 

[WesternKyVol]

In the last 5 years? Yes, but we're not close to competing for a championship and chasing short term dreams isn't worth jeopardizing the long term benefit of the program, especially when it involves asking every player on the roster who hasn't transferred to learn a new system, then those guys move on in a couple years and we are left talking about how bad the 2012 recruiting class was... Back to square one.

We need 85 solid players on our roster before making another coaching change.

If this team were well coached they could definitely win the east next year. You gotta strike while the iron is hot. When you miss your chance bad things happen subsequently, see 2001.

 

[BruinVol]

If a BCS job came calling right now, I would leave right now and take Sirmon with me, except maybe for a couple Big East jobs. If all I got was mid major jobs, it would completely depend on the mid major job. I wouldn't leave for UAB. But if Houston came up...maybe...

That's fair. Here's the problem I see with that. His resume gets a permanent L on it if he leaves here now. AD's love to see resumes that constantly advance and winning at every stop. Leaving here for another DC would hurt both of those.
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[LawVol13]

Give me your list of major BCS conference coordinators who went to mid-majors before taking over as HC of major programs. The list is very small.

I know you are looking for something argument but this one is dumb.

Nick Saban, Mack Brown, Brady Hoke, Mark D'Antonio (went to Cincinnati (basically mid-major))

Those are a few off the top of my head.

 

[zjcvols]

That's fair. Here's the problem I see with that. His resume gets a permanent L on it if he leaves here now. AD's love to see resumes that constantly advance and winning at every stop. Leaving here for another DC would hurt both of those.
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Disagree, but that's JMO. He could say "I got offered a head coaching job that I was 100% confident in my abilities to win at, and took the chance."

 

[BruinVol]

Disagree, but that's JMO. He could say "I got offered a head coaching job that I was 100% confident in my abilities to win at, and took the chance."

A HC job would show advancement and great for his resume. My statement was about taking another DC job.
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[justingroves]

Disagree, but that's JMO. He could say "I got offered a head coaching job that I was 100% confident in my abilities to win at, and took the chance."

Or

I wanted to leave on my own accord and not be told a new coach didn't want to retain me.

 

[BruinVol]

Nick Saban, Mack Brown, Brady Hoke, Mark D'Antonio (went to Cincinnati (basically mid-major))

Those are a few off the top of my head.

Was Saban HC at kent state?
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