Hurd vs T. Henry

#51
#51
The Orange Pants said:
This is true, but Jalen came into a unique situation. Most RBs didn't arrive at UT and play for a talentless team. Jalen got to UT as a freshman and was given the ball as many times as he could handle. Jalen is a remarkable back, but it's tough to compare when the circumstances were so different.
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So if Hurd breaks the all time Tennessee rushing record as a junior, in your opinion he not necessarily the best RB ever at UT?

Explain....:crazy::crazy:
 
#52
#52
photovol said:
So if Hurd breaks the all time Tennessee rushing record as a junior, in your opinion he not necessarily the best RB ever at UT?

Explain....:crazy::crazy:
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That's correct. "Best" is solely a measure of ability. Records are a byproduct of ability and circumstance.
 
#53
#53
photovol said:
So if Hurd breaks the all time Tennessee rushing record as a junior, in your opinion he not necessarily the best RB ever at UT?

Explain....:crazy::crazy:
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What's so crazy about that notion?
 
#54
#54
Henry right now but by the end of the year, Hurd potentially could be best ever.
 
#56
#56
Nationdom said:
I would take, Henry, Lewis, Stephens, Riggs, Garner, and Hardesty over Hurd at this point.
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No. Riggs was very inconsistent

Lewis was never the same after the Auburn game.

Garner...

Hardesty no.

Hurd has better hands than Stephens. But Stephens has better vision

Henry can't get the corner like Hurd. Hurd can do all of what Henry did.

Garner
And Stephens are a tie with Hurd imo.
 
#58
#58
norriscraftbasser said:
I really like Hurd but he is nowhere near the back that Chuck Webb was. No disrespect to Hurd at all.
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Truth. Hurd is outstanding, Webb was elite and could just do things running the ball that Jalen can't. It's no slight to Jalen, it's just the truth.
 
#59
#59
turdherder11 said:
Henry had a stiff arm that would send tacklers to hell. I swear he threw a vandy defender 20yds one time. We haven't had a RB that could burst threw the LOS like Henry could. He was a rock.
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First time I saw him in a game I knew he was going to be great, that and his high school stats were just stupid
 
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#60
#60
KBVol said:
I think Webb was the best RB I've seen play at Tennessee since I started following the Vols in the mid '70s. Johnnie Jones was great, so was Stanley Morgan and Reggie Cobb and Jamal Lewis, etc, etc. IMHO it's Webb number one and then the debate to fill out the rest of the list can begin.
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I think a lot of this best ever rhetoric for Hurd is from younger fans who never saw Webb play. I don't want to be the older guy getting ill about the good ole days. But the numbers I posted earlier are undeniable. Almost 1,500 yards in 6 starts. Amazing. If he had been the featured back that year and also played 13 games as most teams do now, we are talking about a 2,000 yard season perhaps.

Again, love Hurd. Really think he is a gamer and tough as hell. Not the best or really even close yet. He can change my mind and I believe he could. This year is big for him. I actually kinda disagree with you KB which I don't normally do. But I wouldn't trade Hurd for anyone. Including Fournette. I think Hurd has it in him to rip off a crazy season. He has incredible work ethic and talent. Needs to break those long ones though. I want to see that. Every time Webb touched the ball there was a chance he housed it. Just the truth.
 
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#61
#61
The impressive thing about Hurd isn't even his running ability. He's relied on to make the whole offense go more than any rb I can remember. He's got a very outside shot at being best ever here, but he's definitely the best overall in terms of rushing, receiving, blocking I've seen here.
He's really overworked.
 
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#62
#62
apevol said:
The impressive thing about Hurd isn't even his running ability. He's relied on to make the whole offense go more than any rb I can remember. He's got a very outside shot at being best ever here, but he's definitely the best overall in terms of rushing, receiving, blocking I've seen here.
He's really overworked.
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That's why I wouldn't trade him for any other back. Gamer.
 
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#64
#64
The speed of those 80's and 90's defense's isn't comparable to the speed today. Hence not as many long runs
 
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#66
#66
In reality Hurd needs about a 1,000 yds. to break the record since they didn't count bowl games back in Henry's day.
 
#68
#68
One way (just one btw) to judge which back is "better" would be to see which one is regarded higher by pro scouts, ie draft position. Assuming both healthy as draftees.

Henry was great, but I would not take him over Jalen if I had either as a true FR to rebuild us in 2014.
 
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#69
#69
VolFan4Life87 said:
Would love to see Hurd in our offenses of old behind a better O-line. He still doesn't have the top end speed to get 50-60 yd breakaway TD runs but would still have better stats to date, IMHO
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This. Garner, Webb, Cobb, Lewis, Henry etc were blessed with top flight O-Lines. Jalen Hurd had a great FR campaign behind what is probably the worst O-Line in this generation. As a SO he ran behind a below avg SEC front IMO. This season ... Watch out.
 
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#70
#70
The Orange Pants said:
That's correct. "Best" is solely a measure of ability. Records are a byproduct of ability and circumstance.
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No Ability=talent, best=productivity. KB I would venture to say you and I are about the same age and have seen all these great backs at UT. Webb was, without a doubt, the most talented of them all. Unfortunately, his injury kept him from being the best.

Kinda like the Gale Sayers, Bo Jackson vs Emmit Smith argument.
 
#71
#71
Travis Henry was an absolute warrior! His game against Arkansas the Championship year was epic. That final drive no one could have stopped him! If they had 25 defenders out there they would not have stopped him! One of the best ever!
 
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#72
#72
Two different schemes not to mention the likely difference in quality of the offensive lines to make a fair comparison. jmo.


Our offensive line really sucked in 2014 but according to Football Outsiders, saw significant improvement in 2015, albeit, from about as bad as bad could be.

In 2013 we had an NFL offensive line - It may be 2018 before we're fully back to that level but we did see significant improvement from 2014 to 2015. 2012 recruiting is the obvious culprit but 2013 wasn't that great either with the timing of the coaching transition. In 2014 we began rebuilding our offensive line with a step change in talent but its generally accepted that it takes 3 years to fully develop an SEC offensive lineman so we still have a ways to go. I think it's telling that the left side of our line is populated with 2014/2015 recruits while the 2013 guys are starting on the right. Jones & Hall (2015) won rave reviews when they took over the right side last year but I think there are seniority issues to manage with these kids so we're starting out with the older guys on the right again. I also think Richmond is having to step up at least a year ahead of the ideal timing so he still has a ways to go in his development. That said, I still don't expect him to be the weakest link. For now that will still be on the right side, imo.

Still, we did see a lot of improvement in 2015 over this position group's 2014 performance levels. The only area we regressed in was passing downs rush yards. Maybe we should pass more often on passing downs - that is, unless there's that much more faith in our rushing attack than in the passing game. Statistically, our 2015 line actually beat out Alabama (National Champion) in a couple of categories, Standard Down Rushing Yards per Carry and Passing Down Sack Rate. We improved and they regressed in 2015 but even with their regression in those areas they were able to overcome their significant deficiencies and still win the SEC and National Titles.

Even though in 2015 we gave up more TFLs (not including sacks) than the prior year our Stuff Rate (# of times RBs are stopped before getting back to the LOS) improved significantly, from a 96 ranking to 55. The areas that improved the most were our Power Success Rate (Running on 3rd or 4th Down with 2 yards or less to go for a 1st down or TD) and our Passing Down Sack Rate (We were much better than Alabama on this - Probably owing to some extent to the mobility of our QB).

What I'm hoping for this year is that we get another significant reduction in our stuff rate, that we reduce the number of TFLs we allow (#111 in the nation last year) and further reduce our standard down sack rate. The stuff rate reduction could possibly add as much as 10-20% or more to the yards per attempt for our RBs. If that happens it will become increasing obvious to everyone else outside our fan base just how good Jalen Hurd and Alvin Karama really are.
 
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#74
#74
Nasavol said:
No Ability=talent, best=productivity. KB I would venture to say you and I are about the same age and have seen all these great backs at UT. Webb was, without a doubt, the most talented of them all. Unfortunately, his injury kept him from being the best.

Kinda like the Gale Sayers, Bo Jackson vs Emmit Smith argument.
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Who is the best ball hawk to ever play for the University of Tennessee?
 
#75
#75
VFL34 said:
Two different running styles. Henry was a bulldozer. Unstoppable in college
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Florida State stopped him...only 28 yards. And that fumble with 2 minutes left in the game? My baby daughter was sick with the flu and asleep on my chest...had to scream internally. :pinch:
 
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