How well does Butch recruit?

#126
#126
BowlBrother85 said:
You're trying too hard. Tenn is still very much in it for Scurry and Gooden had no chance of qualifying (though I'm not sure why Tenn didn't pursue him at JC). Higgins is the only one that really hurts... and I will say that Butch must start doing a better job of recruiting WR's and developing them. That would be valid criticism.
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Since 2014 he has brought in 8 receivers who were rated 4* or higher, not including Jennings who was recruited as a QB. I'd say e doing a good job or recruiting WR. Developing them I would totally agree
 
#127
#127
jakez4ut said:
if there wasn't, i don't think you'd of seen the turnover on the staff we just went thru.

maybe better said, CBJ saw it. and did something about it.
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Gonna be awesome if all of this, or even most of it, evolves as planned.
 
#129
#129
K-town Vol Fan said:
Nope. 5th at minimum. UF, UGA, LSU, Bama. All easier to recruit.
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Well, Sarms did say in the SEC East.

So you're actually agreeing with him: 3rd on your list, too, after Florida and Georgia.

Either way, puts us pretty much right in the middle of both the SEC and the SEC East. We're middle of the road, as far as recruiting opportunity. We certainly have it better than Kentucky or Mizzou, but not as well as Florida or Georgia.
 
#130
#130
VFL-82-JP said:
Well, Sarms did say in the SEC East.

So you're actually agreeing with him: 3rd on your list, too, after Florida and Georgia.

Either way, puts us pretty much right in the middle of both the SEC and the SEC East. We're middle of the road, as far as recruiting opportunity. We certainly have it better than Kentucky or Mizzou, but not as well as Florida or Georgia.
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My bad, didnt catch that
 
#131
#131
jakez4ut said:
if there wasn't, i don't think you'd of seen the turnover on the staff we just went thru.

maybe better said, CBJ saw it. and did something about it.
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I think the staff turnover this off-season was due to a wide variety of reasons.

Think you could possibly trace the Mahoney and Martinez shifts at least in part to player and unit development questions. All the rest were probably largely due to other considerations.

So it's not true to say that Butch & Co. didn't develop their players. Probably more accurate to say that players in one or two specific position groups were not getting the quality development we needed them to receive.
 
#133
#133
MyBloodRunnethOrange said:
Since 2014 he has brought in 8 receivers who were rated 4* or higher, not including Jennings who was recruited as a QB. I'd say e doing a good job or recruiting WR. Developing them I would totally agree
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As someone astutely pointed out in another thread yesterday, Josh Malone just quietly had one of the ten best WR seasons in Vols history. At Wide Receiver U, the home of Gault and Meachem, Kent and Pickens and Peerless Price and Larry Sievers.

--> 972 yards, 11 TDs.

I'd say Josh came as a talented high school player and left three years later ready for the pros.

Sounds like development to me.

Plus, someone turned Jauan Jennings from a QB into a WR. Gotta give someone credit for that, he didn't just magically know how all the tricks of the trade.

Josh Smith seems pretty polished as a slot receiver. 2016 wasn't his best season, but he's a good player and will likely make the pros after this season.

So I think the WRs are doing fine in development. I'd be more concerned about OLine and DBs, personally.
 
#134
#134
DaddyChad said:
Larry could say better than myself but I think that classes with higher numbers always have more attrition. The talent gap kind of forced us to take heavy numbers. I doubt we would care if Butch was winning sec titles but granted we have had some attrition issues.
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well, of course not. but in building the "competitive depth" we have always talked about, and made fun of CBJ for talking about, this 35% rate is too high to build it, much less maintain it.

i do think the 16, 17 and current cycles have a chance at ending that trend and putting it back w/in normal ranges, and ultimately getting us closer to the depth we really need.

especially on the LOS. O line and DLine recruiting is going well. and there's talent already on the roster.

so, inside out recruiting looks to be the focus, and by all rights, it should be.

as with most everything in June/July...time will tell.
 
#135
#135
Burger said:
Our lowly ranked defense says it all last year. Why didn't we have any good linebackers after Kirkland and JRM?
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throw Sapp in there as well. he could have provided some depth, and gained experience last year, but he was lost for the season too. McDowell also missed time.

LB, while i think there's some talent there, is still thin, and is still one area of recruiting, at least by position only, that we seem to struggle with a bit.
 
#138
#138
To me Buth and the staff are really good recruiters,not quite great but pretty close. This class coming up,if it stays together,could be the start of a great run of recruiting. That of course depends on the season and how the new coaches develop players.
There are some players on the team right now that can really play if given the chance and that's why I say recruiting has been really good. When these players show what they can do I believe the recruits will take notice and hopefully it will start a chain reaction for years to come.
 
#139
#139
Once the secret is out that you aren't all that great of a talent developer and game day coach, it becomes harder to recruit. Simple.
 
#140
#140
Behr said:
Gonna be awesome if all of this, or even most of it, evolves as planned.
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agreed. and i think it will. i like the direction i'm seeing from this staff in general. just still a lot to ask for it all to come together in a single off season.
 
#143
#143
jakez4ut said:
agreed. and i think it will. i like the direction i'm seeing from this staff in general. just still a lot to ask for it all to come together in a single off season.
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Just because I don't repeat it in every thread doesn't mean I've never questioned Butch. I have and still do, to an extent, and I know you have and do. But, I've always known that I could be wrong and genuinely hoped I was. Still don't know, but it sure is looking good.

I'll say it again too, I like being excited about it.And I am!
 
#144
#144
05_never_again said:
Once the secret is out that you aren't all that great of a talent developer and game day coach, it becomes harder to recruit. Simple.
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i don't disagree, but that doesn't explain why we're still seeing positive results on the recruiting trail. by all accounts, as far as CBJ's secrets go, he's basically an open book at this point.

if you're going to sell TN to recruits, you actually do have a lot to point at now....the draft, b2b wins over UGA, beating FL, 3 bowl wins, b2b 9 win seasons etc......we're the "oh so close" program that just needs "you" to get us over the hump. we're committed to continuing to build this program, meet the new coaches...this is who they sent to the NFL, this is what they've done etc...

long story short, it's obvious that he and this staff are able to overcome some of the negative recruiting going on.

and let's face it, that's just not a bad thing.

it's no different than it has been...he's a great salesman. there's really no questioning that at this point.
 
#146
#146
Behr said:
Just because I don't repeat it in every thread doesn't mean I've never questioned Butch. I have and still do, to an extent, and I know you have and do. But, I've always known that I could be wrong and genuinely hoped I was. Still don't know, but it sure is looking good.

I'll say it again too, I like being excited about it.And I am!
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behr, you ok? you off the medication?:eek:lol:

i'm excited, you're excited, and it's ok......i am probably more excited about 2018 though....
 
#147
#147
jakez4ut said:
if you're going to sell TN to recruits, you actually do have a lot to point at now....the draft, b2b wins over UGA, beating FL, 3 bowl wins, b2b 9 win seasons etc......we're the "oh so close" program that just needs "you" to get us over the hump. we're committed to continuing to build this program, meet the new coaches...this is who they sent to the NFL, this is what they've done etc...
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I'm on my phone and haven't tried to figure out how to highlight in bold.

You just sold me.:)
 
#148
#148
jakez4ut said:
behr, you ok? you off the medication?:eek:lol:

i'm excited, you're excited, and it's ok......i am probably more excited about 2018 though....
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Haha, just telling it like it is.

I'm not thinking about 18 yet to be honest.
 
#149
#149
Butch will never reach his recruiting potential due to his horrendous sideline coaching. Cheap sales pitches only take you so far in recruiting.
 
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#150
#150
UT_King said:
Butch will never reach his recruiting potential due to his horrendous sideline coaching. Cheap sales pitches only take you so far in recruiting.
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lol. this will in all likelihood be his 3rd top 10 class in 5 years.

i'm not going to defend the sideline stuff. its' there, and it's real. no argument.

but the fact he can still do what he does recruiting, and have this reputation, in any way, shape or form, tells you all you need to know about his recruiting chops.

what you should be saying is..."man, what if he over achieves for once on the field?":thumbsup:
 
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