How many quality wins does Butch have since coming to UT?

[KBVol]

If that is correct, then it's because they played Clemson in the ACCCG. Take out Clemson, and you don't have much. That's a legit argument because they play in a division that isn't very strong, and that's how they got to play Clemson.

They got to play Syracuse and BC from the other division and avoided Clemson, FSU, and Louisville in the regular season. They played ND, who was terrible. Use the eye test.

And the only reason our strength of schedule was close to theirs is because we played Alabama. You said the schedules weren't comparable, when in fact, they very much were.

 

[BeardedVol]

VT would probably have beaten USCe and Vandy.

that's the thing.

the 1st half of the season, there was no reason not to think that CBJ and this program had turned a major corner.

2nd half, fell flat, big time. it was like two different seasons.

There were signs as early as the App State game that pre-season expectations were somewhat "misplaced". The Oline getting pushed around App State's Dline, our secondary in shambles after JRM's ejection, Dobbs' 26.3 QB rating and the entire Offense's inability to generate points.

It continued on into the first half of the VT game, and Ohio, 3/4 of Florida. We literally didn't put together a single game (other than TN Tech) where 4 quarters of good football was played. I don't really think that's "turning the corner" from 2015 which saw us collapsing late game; just swapped our meltdowns from the second half to the first.

 

[wmcovol]

"There only big games if you lose one of them"
-Bobby Bowden

 

[VFL-82-JP]

I've seen it both ways (comparing SoS, Va Tech to Vols). The most objective version I could find was this:

Tennessee's 2016 opponents went a combined 89-64 on the season, a 58.2% win rate.
Virginia Tech's 2016 foes were a combined 79-71 for the year, a 52.7% win rate.

On FBSchedules.com's table, that puts Tennessee's schedule at the 27th-hardest spot, and Va Tech's at 64th most challenging.

But that just means (to me) that there were a whole lotta teams who had roughly even strengths of schedule. 58% versus 53% isn't a massive swing.

I'd call them roughly even.

 

[PowerT.]

Ohio was tough

 

[08Vol]

Dooley doesn't factor into the conversation anymore. Only as a starting point.

Butch's first three years were 5 wins, 7 wins, 9 wins. Last year we repeated 9 wins. Does that mean we've topped out? Maybe, maybe not. It will be interesting to see how this year plays out with new staff members and several large holes to fill.

I think too many people look at the record in 15 and 16 and think since they are the same it means the team didn't improve. In 15 we had close losses in large part due to conservative and questionable play calling.

Short FG against OU after a turnover in 15 compared to going for it on 4th down from after a turnover against UF in 16. Not blitzing against any of UF's 4th downs in 15 compared to blitzing on most of their 2nd half drives in 16. Running the ball trying to kill the clock against OU, UF, and UGA once we got a lead in 15 compared to throwing deep on UF once we got the lead in 16. The Hail Mary in 16 when most people thought we would play it safe and throw short to the sidelines to set up a long FG.

If Butch coached 2015 like he did 2016 we would have beaten OU, UF and probably AR. Injuries from day 1 was the main issue in 2016, backups not being ready to play was the second issue and why many coaches were fired.

 

[BaldBiker]

It's been said that Tennesseans hate losing more than we love winning. I would bet that most of us can relate to that.

I was about to make the comment that every win we've ever had is a quality win IMO. Because if it's not a win then it's a loss.

So yeah. I can relate.

 

[jakez4ut]

There were signs as early as the App State game that pre-season expectations were somewhat "misplaced". The Oline getting pushed around App State's Dline, our secondary in shambles after JRM's ejection, Dobbs' 26.3 QB rating and the entire Offense's inability to generate points.

It continued on into the first half of the VT game, and Ohio, 3/4 of Florida. We literally didn't put together a single game (other than TN Tech) where 4 quarters of good football was played. I don't really think that's "turning the corner" from 2015 which saw us collapsing late game; just swapped our meltdowns from the second half to the first.

like said in response to JP's post, you had the results, but knew there were issues that could cost us a game if not fixed.

the fact that were still winning in spite of that, said a lot. especially considering who they were beating in the 1st half of the season.

i'm not trying to go back and paint a rosy picture, though i can see how it could be construed that i was.

just that after the dud the app st game was, even in a win, the VT, FL and GA wins at least had you relevant nationally, and in control of your own destiny in the East.

that was/is a big deal.

but yes, everyone that watched knew there were issues. but at the time, it was still a question of 'can we fix them so they don't cost us a game?'.

we know how it played out obviously.

 

[jakez4ut]

results wise, we did turn a corner...at that point in the season anyway. where we had lost those types of games in the past, we were winning them.

agree about the complete game. you could argue that the most complete game we played was USCe, given the jeckyl hyde nature of the season. that game, it was all hyde. we never saw a complete game of performances like 2nd half VT or FL. maybe the bowl game....

 

[MFL]

Just one game that was Florida. Beating Georgia or SC should be just another day at the office.

 

[08Vol]

There were signs as early as the App State game that pre-season expectations were somewhat "misplaced". The Oline getting pushed around App State's Dline, our secondary in shambles after JRM's ejection, Dobbs' 26.3 QB rating and the entire Offense's inability to generate points.

It continued on into the first half of the VT game, and Ohio, 3/4 of Florida. We literally didn't put together a single game (other than TN Tech) where 4 quarters of good football was played. I don't really think that's "turning the corner" from 2015 which saw us collapsing late game; just swapped our meltdowns from the second half to the first.

App State's QB had 108 yards passing and an int, we held them to < 300 yards, they didn't get into the red zone past the 8:53 mark in the 2nd quarter until the last play of OT which was at the 20.

Dobbs passing was due to O-line problems. RT was out so starting LT moved to RT. Redshirt FR started at LT and clearly wasn't ready. C had 2 severely sprained ankles and was a turnstile. Throw in the obviously conservative play calling and P Will not knowing how to catch a ball and you get the piss poor offensive showing we had.

 

[08Vol]

Just one game that was Florida. Beating Georgia or SC should be just another day at the office.

SCAR had one of the greatest CFB coaches at the helm for a while. Look at his record against UT since getting the SCAR job in 05.
Spurrier vs Fulmer 2-2
Spurrier vs Kiffin 0-1
Spurrier vs Dooley 3-0
Spurrier vs Butch 0-3
UGA has way more talent than us and a strong history to boot. You can't just lump them in with the Vandys and UKs of the world

 

[KBVol]

App State's QB had 108 yards passing and an int, we held them to < 300 yards, they didn't get into the red zone past the 8:53 mark in the 2nd quarter until the last play of OT which was at the 20.

Dobbs passing was due to O-line problems. RT was out so starting LT moved to RT. Redshirt FR started at LT and clearly wasn't ready. C had 2 severely sprained ankles and was a turnstile. Throw in the obviously conservative play calling and P Will not knowing how to catch a ball and you get the piss poor offensive showing we had.

So you essentially agree with him.

Bottom line is we were manhandled at the line of scrimmage by a much smaller, much less talented App State team.

Also, you left out App State's 115 yard rusher....they ran it about twice as much as they threw it because they were controlling the line of scrimmage. And of course, had their freshman kicker not missed either the PAT or late 40 yard field goal attempt, we'd have never gotten the chance to beat a bad/what should have been a severely overmatched team in OT at home.

So Bearded was correct. The App State game exposed us and what turned out to be the misplaced high expectations.

 

[BeardedVol]

like said in response to JP's post, you had the results, but knew there were issues that could cost us a game if not fixed.

the fact that were still winning in spite of that, said a lot. especially considering who they were beating in the 1st half of the season.

i'm not trying to go back and paint a rosy picture, though i can see how it could be construed that i was.

just that after the dud the app st game was, even in a win, the VT, FL and GA wins at least had you relevant nationally, and in control of your own destiny in the East.

that was/is a big deal.

but yes, everyone that watched knew there were issues. but at the time, it was still a question of 'can we fix them so they don't cost us a game?'.

we know how it played out obviously.

Turning the corner from the 2015 season would have involved remedying what we all thought was a problem with late game collapse. We replaced the problem of the late game collapse, with not being able to get started until the 3rd or 4th quarter. While the swap did improve our ability to win games due to the talent on offense, we sill ended up with the same overall record, and we won 1 less conference game.

That's not really turning the corner as much as it is swapping one problem for another, and ending up with nearly the same result.

 

[VolGee4]

And the only reason our strength of schedule was close to theirs is because we played Alabama. You said the schedules weren't comparable, when in fact, they very much were.

You would say the exact opposite of what I say so I am done.

 

[Malivol]

Butch will go down as one of the worst coaches in TN history wait and see. The past two years he has squandered more talent than he will ever assemble again. Anyone that has watched his in game decision making is lying to themselves if they don't think he's a colossal bust. I don't judge him by his "big wins" but rather blowing the east two years in a row

 

[KBVol]

You would say the exact opposite of what I say so I am done.

Only if it made sense. Just using the same logic.

 

[ajvol01]

I think our fans don't appreciate our bowl wins. I understand the frustration of the season but Butch has clobbered each team in the bowl games. He has done a fantastic job with bowl preparation.

Iowa, Northwestern and Nebraska were not great teams.

The bowl wins are nice, but I'd prefer seeing us in the Sugar Bowl or any BCS bowl against tougher competition.

Going to the Music City was a huge letdown after starting 5-0.

 

[PowerT.]

He got a quality win today

 

[Burger]

Butch will go down as one of the worst coaches in TN history wait and see. The past two years he has squandered more talent than he will ever assemble again. Anyone that has watched his in game decision making is lying to themselves if they don't think he's a colossal bust. I don't judge him by his "big wins" but rather blowing the east two years in a row

If we keep him too long, we'll be back to 2008 soon enough.

 

[IknoxvolsI]

This Jones era reminds me of the early to mid Majors era. Win some big games he was suppose to but then lose some he shouldn't have.

 

[James K Folks]

The VT win is the most underrated win. That team nearly knocked Clemson out of the playoff. The injuries last year were just unbelievable.

 

[08Vol]

So you essentially agree with him.

Bottom line is we were manhandled at the line of scrimmage by a much smaller, much less talented App State team.

Also, you left out App State's 115 yard rusher....they ran it about twice as much as they threw it because they were controlling the line of scrimmage. And of course, had their freshman kicker not missed either the PAT or late 40 yard field goal attempt, we'd have never gotten the chance to beat a bad/what should have been a severely overmatched team in OT at home.

So Bearded was correct. The App State game exposed us and what turned out to be the misplaced high expectations.

Agree about the O-line, disagree about the secondary sucking. Oh and if they were controlling the line of scrimmage then why were they only able to score 2 TDs, one with the assistance of a muffed punt deep in our territory?

 

[82_VOL_83]

30.

/Thread

 

[BeecherVol]

Dooley doesn't factor into the conversation anymore. Only as a starting point.

Butch's first three years were 5 wins, 7 wins, 9 wins. Last year we repeated 9 wins. Does that mean we've topped out? Maybe, maybe not. It will be interesting to see how this year plays out with new staff members and several large holes to fill.

Oh I think for some Dooley very much still matters in any conversation regarding Jones.