How many quality wins does Butch have since coming to UT?

#76
#76
BeecherVol said:
Through the first 2-3 years absolutely.

The more you hear about how bad Dooley was from last year and going forward, the more it tells me Jones has topped out. Then it depends on if your good with that. Some are, others not so much.
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I see it differently.
Every thread, someone is pointing out the total number of wins or total number of SEC wins, since the arrival of Jones.
As long as the first couple of seasons are included, I see no problem pointing out the level (talent/experience) of the first couple of teams.

If you mean the issues he suffered upon his arrival should no longer determine his expected record, I completely agree.
But in general discussion of 'what has Jones accomplished', of course where he started is relevant to where he is now.
 
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#77
#77
chargervol said:
I see it differently.
Every thread, someone is pointing out the total number of wins or total number of SEC wins, since the arrival of Jones.
As long as the first couple of seasons are included, I see no problem pointing out the level (talent/experience) of the first couple of teams.

If you mean the issues he suffered upon his arrival should no longer determine his expected record, I completely agree.
But in general discussion of 'what has Jones accomplished', of course where he started is relevant to where he is now.
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At the end of the day when the smoke clears, all that matters is the wins and losses. Excuses and moral victories mean nothing. There is more evidence that Butch has plateaued and will never take the Vols to a SEC championship game, than the other.
 
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#78
#78
HARTUPM said:
At the end of the day when the smoke clears, all that matters is the wins and losses. Excuses and moral victories mean nothing. There is more evidence that Butch has plateaued and will never take the Vols to a SEC championship game, than the other.
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Thanks.
If I had actually addressed anything concerning a plateau level, this would have been really interesting.
 
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#79
#79
Freak said:
Cincinnati did finish the season ranked that year, barely.

As for Butch, I do think a win over a P5 team that finished No. 16 in the final polls is a quality win. You disagree?
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That's a valid point and an arguement or reasoning can be made for or against. Was that the same team at the end of the season as the one that started? Were we the same team?

I view it as not being a quality win because had we played them at the end, the outcome would have been different. I just don't think they were that good when Butch played them.
 
#81
#81
IknoxvolsI said:
That's a valid point and an arguement or reasoning can be made for or against. Was that the same team at the end of the season as the one that started? Were we the same team?

I view it as not being a quality win because had we played them at the end, the outcome would have been different. I just don't think they were that good when Butch played them.
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You can't say for sure the outcome would have been different. The only evidence we have of how Tennessee would perform against VT is the game they played. If the two teams played ten times at different points in the season how many would the Vols win? I have no idea. But I do know which team won convincingly on September 10th.

Regardless of who is playing the best football at whatever point in the season, Tennessee beat the No. 16 team in the country on national television in front of the largest crowd every to see a football game. There was a TON of hype leading up to that game. To me, that's a quality win.
 
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#82
#82
Freak said:
You can't say for sure the outcome would have been different. The only evidence we have of how Tennessee would perform against VT is the game they played. If the two teams played ten times at different points in the season how many would the Vols win? I have no idea. But I do know which team won convincingly on September 10th.

Regardless of who is playing the best football at whatever point in the season, Tennessee beat the No. 16 team in the country on national television in front of the largest crowd every to see a football game. There was a TON of hype leading up to that game. To me, that's a quality win.
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Absolutely, IMO, VT is a quality win.

They had their bad breaks just like we had against aTm. That's how the ball bounces.
 
#83
#83
Freak said:
You can't say for sure the outcome would have been different. The only evidence we have of how Tennessee would perform against VT is the game they played. If the two teams played ten times at different points in the season how many would the Vols win? I have no idea. But I do know which team won convincingly on September 10th.

Regardless of who is playing the best football at whatever point in the season, Tennessee beat the No. 16 team in the country on national television in front of the largest crowd every to see a football game. There was a TON of hype leading up to that game. To me, that's a quality win.
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That #16 ranked team was also coached by a first year coach. Our coach has not ended the year above the top 20 yet.
 
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#87
#87
VolGee4 said:
I wish we had the same schedule as VTech did last year. Not even comparable.
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VT would probably have beaten USCe and Vandy.

that's the thing.

the 1st half of the season, there was no reason not to think that CBJ and this program had turned a major corner.

2nd half, fell flat, big time. it was like two different seasons.

and even going back to the aTm game, many, self included, were still thinking this team was fantastic, just needed to stop the bleeding on the injury front.

the mantra at that point of the season was....if this team can quit shooting itself int he foot (because that could cost them down the line) and get relatively healthy, we were going to ATL, going to win 10 games and maybe play in a NY6 bowl, outside chance at a play off berth.

so to come back now and blame schedule or whatever doesn't hold water, because we navigated the part of the schedule that was going to "make or break" our season.

this team was really good. until it wasn't.
 
#88
#88
chargervol said:
I see it differently.
Every thread, someone is pointing out the total number of wins or total number of SEC wins, since the arrival of Jones.
As long as the first couple of seasons are included, I see no problem pointing out the level (talent/experience) of the first couple of teams.

If you mean the issues he suffered upon his arrival should no longer determine his expected record, I completely agree.
But in general discussion of 'what has Jones accomplished', of course where he started is relevant to where he is now.
Click to expand...
Agreed....

or the expectations those 1st two years. they weren't high. so yeah, in the grand scheme of "what he's accomplished", not sure how much weight you can really give for failure or success. i remember feeling really good about the future after that GA game, even in that loss. beating SC was a high mark. that we didn't go to a bowl was disappointing, but not end of the world.

but the further away we get from 2012, the less it matters to where we are currently.

this is his program now, and while he can/should/will get credit for getting it out of the hole he found it, the expectaitons are different in year4 & 5, than they were in year 1 and 2.

and that's a credit to him for doing what he's done so far, victim of his own success if you want to call it that.

but the dooley standard no longer applies in CBJ's program today. he's already surpassed that. as he was expected to. now it's time to see if he can take it up another rung on the ladder from here.
 
#89
#89
jakez4ut said:
Agreed....

or the expectations those 1st two years. they weren't high. so yeah, in the grand scheme of "what he's accomplished", not sure how much weight you can really give for failure or success. i remember feeling really good about the future after that GA game, even in that loss. beating SC was a high mark. that we didn't go to a bowl was disappointing, but not end of the world.

but the further away we get from 2012, the less it matters to where we are currently.

this is his program now, and while he can/should/will get credit for getting it out of the hole he found it, the expectaitons are different in year4 & 5, than they were in year 1 and 2.

and that's a credit to him for doing what he's done so far, victim of his own success if you want to call it that.

but the dooley standard no longer applies in CBJ's program today. he's already surpassed that. as he was expected to. now it's time to see if he can take it up another rung on the ladder from here.
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Yeah, I clearly stated where he began had no bearing on current expectations.
But when discussing overall win/loss etc.during his entire time here, it's absolutely relevant.
 
#90
#90
jakez4ut said:
VT would probably have beaten USCe and Vandy.

that's the thing.

the 1st half of the season, there was no reason not to think that CBJ and this program had turned a major corner.

2nd half, fell flat, big time. it was like two different seasons.

and even going back to the aTm game, many, self included, were still thinking this team was fantastic, just needed to stop the bleeding on the injury front.

the mantra at that point of the season was....if this team can quit shooting itself int he foot (because that could cost them down the line) and get relatively healthy, we were going to ATL, going to win 10 games and maybe play in a NY6 bowl, outside chance at a play off berth.

so to come back now and blame schedule or whatever doesn't hold water, because we navigated the part of the schedule that was going to "make or break" our season.

this team was really good. until it wasn't.
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I didn't comment about how we played our schedule. A comment was made about a first year head coach ending up #16 at the end of the year. All records aren't created equal. Let's see Fuente play at Oregon, a home and home with OU, and Alabama every year in his first 3 years. You just can't compare them.

VTech lost to Syracuse last year, and they went 4-8, worse than USCe or Vandy.
 
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#91
#91
In my opinion he has two in the SEC..UGA & FLA.. But also two quality wins in bowl..all 3 was suppose two give us he** and got boat raced..
 
#92
#92
jakez4ut said:
VT would probably have beaten USCe and Vandy.

that's the thing.

the 1st half of the season, there was no reason not to think that CBJ and this program had turned a major corner.

2nd half, fell flat, big time. it was like two different seasons.

and even going back to the aTm game, many, self included, were still thinking this team was fantastic, just needed to stop the bleeding on the injury front.

the mantra at that point of the season was....if this team can quit shooting itself int he foot (because that could cost them down the line) and get relatively healthy, we were going to ATL, going to win 10 games and maybe play in a NY6 bowl, outside chance at a play off berth.

so to come back now and blame schedule or whatever doesn't hold water, because we navigated the part of the schedule that was going to "make or break" our season.

this team was really good. until it wasn't.
Click to expand...

I saw 2016 differently, I guess. Because for me, the entire first half of the season was like watching your kid successfully riding a bike for the first time: all wobbles, almost miraculous she's staying upright. Felt that way for most of the App State game, three quarters of the Va Tech game, most of the Georgia game, over half the Florida game, and of course A&M and Bama were the falls.

Don't get me wrong, I was loving that we won all those early games. But they still felt like a wobbly-wheel ride the whole way. Found myself just wondering when we'd pay for it.

IMO, the entire 2016 season was about a lack of on-field discipline (off-field discipline was, and remains, out of this world good...just talking on-field). The team was hot-and-cold in almost every position group, from QB to DB, great one game and questionable the next. Then, when you started adding in the uncommon number of key player injuries, starting very early with Cam Sutton, things just went from shaky to...well, to USCe and Vandy losses.

That's how I saw it, anyway. Not 2 seasons in one, but one shaky ride that continued to devolve until the crashes.
 
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#93
#93
I think all the bowl wins could be considered quality wins. Two against Georgia, two against SC were quality wins and Florida. So he's got eight. Also some bad losses to be considered SC, Vandy, plus getting pummeled by Alabama at home which was bad even if a loss was expected.
 
#94
#94
VFL-82-JP said:
I saw 2016 differently, I guess. Because for me, the entire first half of the season was like watching your kid successfully riding a bike for the first time: all wobbles, almost miraculous she's staying upright. Felt that way for most of the App State game, three quarters of the Va Tech game, most of the Georgia game, over half the Florida game, and of course A&M and Bama were the falls.

Don't get me wrong, I was loving that we won all those early games. But they still felt like a wobbly-wheel ride the whole way. Found myself just wondering when we'd pay for it.

IMO, the entire 2016 season was about a lack of on-field discipline (off-field discipline was, and remains, out of this world good...just talking on-field). The team was hot-and-cold in almost every position group, from QB to DB, great one game and questionable the next. Then, when you started adding in the uncommon number of key player injuries, starting very early with Cam Sutton, things just went from shaky to...well, to USCe and Vandy losses.

That's how I saw it, anyway. Not 2 seasons in one, but one shaky ride that continued to devolve until the crashes.
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i agree with that, i just covered it all in the 'stop shooting itself in the foot' comment.:)

results were there, just had to improve on the execution and discipline, and stop the bleeding on the injury front.

it was a jeckyll and hyde season, and we kept waiting on which one was the real TN.
 
#95
#95
Volfan2012 said:
I think all the bowl wins could be considered quality wins. Two against Georgia, two against SC were quality wins and Florida. So he's got eight. Also some bad losses to be considered SC, Vandy, plus getting pummeled by Alabama at home which was bad even if a loss was expected.
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To me, bowl wins haven't meant as much since the Nebraska Orange bowl of '97 (exception of '98 Fiesta Bowl) because sometimes teams don't show up. Look at Saban's teams. It's NC or bust. If Fulmer was complaining about something we would get beat.
 
#97
#97
IknoxvolsI said:
To me, bowl wins haven't meant as much since the Nebraska Orange bowl of '97 (exception of '98 Fiesta Bowl) because sometimes teams don't show up. Look at Saban's teams. It's NC or bust. If Fulmer was complaining about something we would get beat.
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That's my general take on bowl games, as well. Oftentimes one of the teams doesn't bother to show up. And they really have very little impact on the next year.

With that said, you can't argue with Butch having his team prepared for the 3 bowl games.
 
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#99
#99
KBVol said:
VaTech had a higher strength of schedule than we did last year.
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If that is correct, then it's because they played Clemson in the ACCCG. Take out Clemson, and you don't have much. That's a legit argument because they play in a division that isn't very strong, and that's how they got to play Clemson.

They got to play Syracuse and BC from the other division and avoided Clemson, FSU, and Louisville in the regular season. They played ND, who was terrible. Use the eye test.
 
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