How is this any different than a Butch game?

#102
#102
Hairy Vols said:
Yes we have fine tuning and work to do. Penalties are also a big part of that. But to imply we are not competitive and haven’t been the entire time he has been here is untrue. He made us competitive right off the rip. He needs to continue to grow and adjust as a coach. Something I believe he is doing and is capable of continuing to do.
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What changes has CJH made this year from the last 3 years that show he is learning from his mistakes?
 
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#104
#104
Hairy Vols said:
Again that is subjective. To be middle of the SEC is to be elite in regards to most other conferences. So in one regard we are mid yet at the level we play our mid is still better than 95%.

Thank you for proving my point. ❤️
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Hehehehe. Asking for statistics in the first place is asking for nonsense.

If you make $90k per year, you're incredibly wealthy compared with most of the world, more wealthy than 90% of the population of Earth, but if you happen to live in Franklin TN, that $90k makes you likely poor compared to your neighbors.

UT lives in the SEC. We're mid where we live. Sure, we're better than all the AAC teams and that matters exactly none where we live.

Stop asking for nonsense then trying to claim victory when you're shown we're mid where it matters this year.
 
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#105
#105
Hairy Vols said:
Actually I love discussing more detailed game day strategies and why they work and didn’t work. I’m not making any excuses. I just see child like flailing with zero substance. So why should I entertain that? Why should I give it my time. The vast minority want him gone and only those with little football experience would want him fired given the current state of the program, the progression we’ve made, and the best QB talent we’ve had since Manning coming in next year.

Get a grip kid.
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That's the problem with blind hope. Next year will always be better until its not. There needs to be tangible improvements every year to achieve the stated goal. Say however you like but the Nico problem was CJHs. He evaluated him, he recruited him, he had him paid and he coached him. If it didn't work out then that's on CJH. Leader takes responsibility for decisions and results (or lack their of). Good on CJH to pull the plug when he did but to not have a back up ready is on CJH.

Now we are banking on a true FR QB next year to save our bacon in a league that chews through inexperience? Tall order and then we hear the "need to wait another year" line which in the era of NIL & portal just doesn't cut it anymore.
 
#106
#106
utVolFanInVA said:
What changes has CJH made this year from the last 3 years that show he is learning from his mistakes?
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think the most obvious change has been the adjustments in the run game. From year one we’ve seen huge improvements across the board. The offense feels more balanced and complete now and that’s been a steady progression every season.

When Heupel first arrived his offense lived on tempo and wide receiver splits. It was fast wide and designed to wear defenses down. Over time he’s toned that down and found a much better rhythm between pace and control. The offense still moves quickly when needed but it’s not relying on tempo alone anymore.

This season he’s added a lot more mid range drags and crossing routes to open up the outside and draw the safeties in. It’s a small adjustment that’s made a big difference in how defenses have to play us.

Heupel has stuck to his strengths while also showing he knows the limits of his personnel especially at quarterback. A lot of fans criticized him for the over reliance on the screen game with Milton but it’s clear now he was scheming to protect the QB and hide weaknesses..

Now looking at this year’s changes he’s made clear adjustments in the deep passing game. Early on you saw a few under throws from ol Ag but that’s been fixed. The ball is coming out faster the reads are cleaner and he’s trusting the timing of the play instead of forcing it late.

If we’re talking about non QB decisions the onside kick call says a lot. Many wanted him to boot it deep and trust the defense but his call made sense. If the defense forced a three and out and they hit another kick it was a win win in a tough spot. I also think he didn’t want to put the game back on Gilbert’s shoulders after what happened against Georgia. That shows growth and awareness learning from the past and adjusting for the moment.
 
#107
#107
utVolFanInVA said:
That's the problem with blind hope. Next year will always be better until its not. There needs to be tangible improvements every year to achieve the stated goal. Say however you like but the Nico problem was CJHs. He evaluated him, he recruited him, he had him paid and he coached him. If it didn't work out then that's on CJH. Leader takes responsibility for decisions and results (or lack their of). Good on CJH to pull the plug when he did but to not have a back up ready is on CJH.

Now we are banking on a true FR QB next year to save our bacon in a league that chews through inexperience? Tall order and then we hear the "need to wait another year" line which in the era of NIL & portal just doesn't cut it anymore.
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That’s realistic if players and personnel didn’t change. That’s the problem with blind pessimism. Everything is bad and nothing ever progresses. It’s why we had so many bad coaches in a row.
 
#109
#109
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
Hehehehe. Asking for statistics in the first place is asking for nonsense.

If you make $90k per year, you're incredibly wealthy compared with most of the world, more wealthy than 90% of the population of Earth, but if you happen to live in Franklin TN, that $90k makes you likely poor compared to your neighbors.

UT lives in the SEC. We're mid where we live. Sure, we're better than all the AAC teams and that matters exactly none where we live.

Stop asking for nonsense then trying to claim victory when you're shown we're mid where it matters this year.
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Victory? This is a message board meant for discussion. If everyone agreed with the ideas I had there would be no reason to be here because the discussion would be dead. I’m here to grow and learn.

Considering just a few short years ago we were in the bottom of the SEC every year I think my point is relevant. Idk where we are ranked in conference. We made the playoffs last year. We have been ranked more under Heupel than every other coach combined for the past 20 years.
 
#111
#111
Hairy Vols said:
Victory? This is a message board meant for discussion. If everyone agreed with the ideas I had there would be no reason to be here because the discussion would be dead. I’m here to grow and learn.

Considering just a few short years ago we were in the bottom of the SEC every year I think my point is relevant. Idk where we are ranked in conference. We made the playoffs last year. We have been ranked more under Heupel than every other coach combined for the past 20 years.
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Agreed. But you said thanks for proving your point. Stats, notoriously, are useless for proving anything but you asked and I provided.

UT is mid this year in the SEC. It's just a fact by our ranking. Should we be ranked higher? Meh. Our performance this year is solidly mid AND that's an accomplishment given the Nico mess.

All this "we're only one or two plays from....." angst is just so much football luck. In 1998 we were one or two plays away from likely not getting a Natty.

We're mid this year among our peers. Them's the breaks.
 
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#112
#112
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
Agreed. But you said thanks for proving your point. Stats, notoriously, are useless for proving anything but you asked and I provided.

UT is mid this year in the SEC. It's just a fact by our ranking. Should we be ranked higher? Meh. Our performance this year is solidly mid AND that's an accomplishment given the Nico mess.

All this "we're only one or two plays from....." angst is just so much football luck. In 1998 we were one or two plays away from likely not getting a Natty.

We're mid this year among our peers. Them's the breaks.
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I do appreciate a good discussion with some stats in it. What were people like after the South Carolina loss during Hookers last year? I was gone that year at BCT but I’m curious to what the atmosphere was like.
 
#113
#113
Hairy Vols said:
I do appreciate a good discussion with some stats in it. What were people like after the South Carolina loss during Hookers last year? I was gone that year at BCT but I’m curious to what the atmosphere was like.
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The OU loss isn't like the SC loss, at least for me. As I recall, people were irrational enough to start blaming Hooker's injury on SC (and some likely still insist the field...... WHICH BOTH TEAMS PLAYED ON..... was set up to hurt our players) and other such nonsense.

Finding out years later that SC might've gotten signals from MI makes me sick because I can live with losses but cheating and gambling scams make me just want to turn it all off. I like good football.

Overall, people worry too much about wins and losses and too little about good execution. Saban may be the devil but he had it right: execute to your highest level and the wins will take care of themselves.

My issues with Heupel are that he's not a big enough SOB to his staff nor his players. Give me Rodney Garner making his point while making both grammarians and Pastors have strokes.
 
#114
#114
Hairy Vols said:
think the most obvious change has been the adjustments in the run game. From year one we’ve seen huge improvements across the board. The offense feels more balanced and complete now and that’s been a steady progression every season.

When Heupel first arrived his offense lived on tempo and wide receiver splits. It was fast wide and designed to wear defenses down. Over time he’s toned that down and found a much better rhythm between pace and control. The offense still moves quickly when needed but it’s not relying on tempo alone anymore.

This season he’s added a lot more mid range drags and crossing routes to open up the outside and draw the safeties in. It’s a small adjustment that’s made a big difference in how defenses have to play us.

Heupel has stuck to his strengths while also showing he knows the limits of his personnel especially at quarterback. A lot of fans criticized him for the over reliance on the screen game with Milton but it’s clear now he was scheming to protect the QB and hide weaknesses..

Now looking at this year’s changes he’s made clear adjustments in the deep passing game. Early on you saw a few under throws from ol Ag but that’s been fixed. The ball is coming out faster the reads are cleaner and he’s trusting the timing of the play instead of forcing it late.

If we’re talking about non QB decisions the onside kick call says a lot. Many wanted him to boot it deep and trust the defense but his call made sense. If the defense forced a three and out and they hit another kick it was a win win in a tough spot. I also think he didn’t want to put the game back on Gilbert’s shoulders after what happened against Georgia. That shows growth and awareness learning from the past and adjusting for the moment.
Click to expand...
Here are the stats for 2021 - 2025

Rush 1st downs Pass 1st downs Rush TDs Pass TDs
2021: 164 (13 games) for 12.6/gm, 125 (13 games) for 9.6/gm, 30 (13 games) for 2.3/gm, 33 (13 games) for 2.5/gm
2022: 134 (13 games) for 10.3/gm, 155 (13 games) for 11.9/gm, 40 (13 games) for 3.0/gm, 38 (13 games) for 2.9/gm
2023: 140 (13 games) for 10.7/gm, 134 (13 games) for 10./3gm, 23 (13 games) for 1.7/gm, 22 (13 games) for 1.6/gm
2024: 151 (13 games) for 11.6/gm, 135 (13 games) for 10.3/gm, 34 (13 games) for 2.6/gm, 21 (13 games) for 1.6/gm
2025: 83 (9 games) for 9.2/gm, 131 (9 games) for 14.5/gm, 23 (9 games) for 2.5/gm, 23 (9 games) for 2.5/gm

Rush yards Pass yards Totals
2021: 217.8 yds/gm, 4.9 yds/att, 257.0 yds/gm, 8.8 yds/att, 474.9 yds/gm, 6.5 yds/play
2022: 199.5 yds/gm, 5.0 yds/att, 326.0 yds/gm, 10.0 yds/att, 525.5 yds/gm, 7.2 yds/play
2023: 204.8 yds/gm, 5.4 yds/att, 243.2 yds/gm, 7.7 yds/att, 448.1 yds/gm, 6.5 yds/play
2024: 226.3 yds/gm, 5.0 yds/att, 221.1 yds/gm, 7.6 yds/att, 447.5 yds/gm, 6.1 yds/play
2025: 174.8 yds/gm, 4.7 yds/att, 329.3 yds/gm, 9.0 yds/att, 504.1 yds/gm, 6.8 yds/pay

I don't see a huge improvement in these numbers from 2021 to 2025. In fact, one could argue with the improved talent that TN is losing ground.

Pace vs control is in eye of the holder. How many times have we seen this year after TN's D gets a turnover he goes super conservative and results in a 3 & out? Several come to mind right off the bat. Maybe CJH is trying to preserve some life in TN's D but penalties seem to be dictating our pace more than anything this year.

We have an athletic advantage at TE this year but our TEs only have a combined 40 catches in 9 games (4.4/gm). Better than in years past but still below a productive number to force LBs/Ss into coverage situations.

CJH still has major growth in clock and timeout management. These issues continue to appear at the end of halves.
 
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#115
#115
Kylo said:
I certainly didn't see you or any of the other VN coaching savants putting in resumes for the position. Why not? Clearly you know more about it than the Heisman finalist, national championship winning former player Josh Heupel.

Keep complaining though, I'm sure it'll help things turn around.
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I bet you defended butch til the bitter end as well. A for boot licking dedication. F for common sense.
 
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#118
#118
As frustrating as the bumbles and shortfalls have been, looking back we may end up thinking that this is one of Heupel’s best coaching jobs. Taking in a brand new QB unexpectedly at the 11th hour, dealing with the loss of our 2 best CBs, breaking-in a nearly completely new O-line, and new RBs, etc. - If this team wins out the rest of the way, we probably should consider that perspective.

The reason why we feel let down right now is that we saw flashes of some high level play … along with letting a gift of a win over Georgia slip away. We should be better as a team in a lot of areas (penalties and tackling being two of the most obvious ones), but we’re staring at a possible 9-3 record.

All that said, losing to UF and Vandy will spoil most (if not all) of the positivity that remains. This team can’t continue to pi$$ away opportunities.
 
#120
#120
Kylo said:
I certainly didn't see you or any of the other VN coaching savants putting in resumes for the position. Why not? Clearly you know more about it than the Heisman finalist, national championship winning former player Josh Heupel.

Keep complaining though, I'm sure it'll help things turn around.
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Your logic is childish the more I look at it. Are you saying that we know more about football than all the coaches previously fired from coaching ball? You do realize many of these statements can be true at once? Heupel can be a great prior player, have vast football knowledge, but yet still not be a great coach or fit at this level? All can be true. It could even be that he can be a great coach at a lower level but just not here.

It’s comical how butthurt some get over criticizing coaches. He makes 10 mil a year and has been making some bonehead decisions, and lack of decisions. He can handle some criticism. Don’t let it keep you up at night. And to somehow try and draw a parallel between prior players, heismans, etc. Is hilarious. Very few are fit to coach. They really have nothing to do with one another.
 
#121
#121
Dswizzle said:
And looks what’s happened with every hire after that. None have matched what Fulmer did
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Yes I agree! Fulmerr was a homer born an raised in Tennessee! I unfortunately was one of the crowd that wanted a change but I am man onto admit that I was wrong Tennessee did Fulmet wrong and I believe that is why the program had a curse on it!’
 
#124
#124
utVolFanInVA said:
Here are the stats for 2021 - 2025

Rush 1st downs Pass 1st downs Rush TDs Pass TDs
2021: 164 (13 games) for 12.6/gm, 125 (13 games) for 9.6/gm, 30 (13 games) for 2.3/gm, 33 (13 games) for 2.5/gm
2022: 134 (13 games) for 10.3/gm, 155 (13 games) for 11.9/gm, 40 (13 games) for 3.0/gm, 38 (13 games) for 2.9/gm
2023: 140 (13 games) for 10.7/gm, 134 (13 games) for 10./3gm, 23 (13 games) for 1.7/gm, 22 (13 games) for 1.6/gm
2024: 151 (13 games) for 11.6/gm, 135 (13 games) for 10.3/gm, 34 (13 games) for 2.6/gm, 21 (13 games) for 1.6/gm
2025: 83 (9 games) for 9.2/gm, 131 (9 games) for 14.5/gm, 23 (9 games) for 2.5/gm, 23 (9 games) for 2.5/gm

Rush yards Pass yards Totals
2021: 217.8 yds/gm, 4.9 yds/att, 257.0 yds/gm, 8.8 yds/att, 474.9 yds/gm, 6.5 yds/play
2022: 199.5 yds/gm, 5.0 yds/att, 326.0 yds/gm, 10.0 yds/att, 525.5 yds/gm, 7.2 yds/play
2023: 204.8 yds/gm, 5.4 yds/att, 243.2 yds/gm, 7.7 yds/att, 448.1 yds/gm, 6.5 yds/play
2024: 226.3 yds/gm, 5.0 yds/att, 221.1 yds/gm, 7.6 yds/att, 447.5 yds/gm, 6.1 yds/play
2025: 174.8 yds/gm, 4.7 yds/att, 329.3 yds/gm, 9.0 yds/att, 504.1 yds/gm, 6.8 yds/pay

I don't see a huge improvement in these numbers from 2021 to 2025. In fact, one could argue with the improved talent that TN is losing ground.

Pace vs control is in eye of the holder. How many times have we seen this year after TN's D gets a turnover he goes super conservative and results in a 3 & out? Several come to mind right off the bat. Maybe CJH is trying to preserve some life in TN's D but penalties seem to be dictating our pace more than anything this year.

We have an athletic advantage at TE this year but our TEs only have a combined 40 catches in 9 games (4.4/gm). Better than in years past but still below a productive number to force LBs/Ss into coverage situations.

CJH still has major growth in clock and timeout management. These issues continue to appear at the end of halves.
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I can def agree that we need to see more TE usage and he needs to grow with his clock management. Those things can change and can easily be improved.

However the style of offense was the main thing I was referencing. Control is something he has def honed on. Sorry brother. I’m tired and worn out from family stuff so this reply doesn’t have as much substance as it deserves. Solid reply by you tho. Thank you.
 
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