How about stop talking about a new Coach?

#51
#51
WesternNCVol said:
OP, I used to agree with a lot of what you are saying. I have since reformed. The fact is other than a vastly improved run game we are no better than last year despite having more talent.

We have lost some close ones that we should have Won. Not because of luck, but because of poor technique, bad tackling, poor defensive play, lack of preparedness, poor game calling, lack of game management (time outs etc), and the list goes on.

We have enough talent to be 7-1 or 6-2 right now. Sadly we were out coached in 5 games and out talented in 1.
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I "liked" your post.

Yeah. But the progress is there. And the mistakes show the last few kinks that need to be worked out. And it's in play calling not necessarily the coaching staff. I believe they'll progress too in that regard.

It's like a tangled water hose. We are almost straightened out.

I played football. Sometimes other worse or better players out juked me. Or I slipped or just couldn't get the tackle. That's football.

I don't like Cheney but he has scored more points than I thought he could this year. I'm pissed off at Sal and the play of our defense and off this years performance of it wasn't for crappy defensive play then we COULD be undefeated! Hahaha! I know but why couldn't we be. Well maybe a 1 loss team. Bama is an NFL team in college.
 
#52
#52
snake_anthony said:
My point Is Dooley or not, we aren't there yet. We are making huge changes to our program that will allow us the chance to win em all, hopefully sooner than later.

The answer to your question is 0%, but they wouldn't then be considered a winning program.

With the right changes and time. We will be a winning program again.
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I'm sorry but they are not going in a direction that is going to give them a chance to compete at the highest level in this league.

The coaching staff as a whole is not good enough, Dooley is not good enough and recruiting is not nearly good enough. (With this year easily being his worst class to date). If they were ever going to make a move this was the year to do it, because the roster is going to dip downwards once again beginning next season.

They need someone in here who will be able to recruit at an elite level.
 
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#55
#55
JuggernaUT_VOL said:
Lets all go to a coaching rumors forum and complain theres to many coaching rumor threads...


GTFO!!
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The fact we needed a thread, no wait, a FORUM for rumors says all you need to know about these fans of Tennessee. Hardly no thread goes by without one of these "AD's" spouting off about Gruden. Waiting on the next retired/fired broadcaster rumor. Gruden has been worn out.
 
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#56
#56
snake_anthony said:
Come on. Do you really expect to compete for championships year in year out in the SEC?

Do you think by dumping one coach for another risk is going to make us SEC champs next year?

I agree with you. We shouldn't fall that far. But we have. And in one of my last responses explained the progress I've seen. At least we have become competitive on games. That was our next logical step. Accomplished. Now the next one is winning them. And when we do. We'll be relevant again and not being compared to Vandy or Kentucky. And I don't do that now anyway.
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I dont expect next year's coach to have them competing for an SEC Championship, but I have hope they can get someone in here that can recruit at a high enough level to compete in the future and at least have his team play with good discipline and good fundamentals.

Maybe the next hire will fail, but at least a new hire will attempt to get things back on track. I'd rather at try to get things fixed rathern than just settling for the product we've seen the last 3 years with no real positive outlook down the road.
 
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#57
#57
snake_anthony said:
I "liked" your post.

Yeah. But the progress is there. And the mistakes show the last few kinks that need to be worked out. And it's in play calling not necessarily the coaching staff. I believe they'll progress too in that regard.

It's like a tangled water hose. We are almost straightened out.

I played football. Sometimes other worse or better players out juked me. Or I slipped or just couldn't get the tackle. That's football.

I don't like Cheney but he has scored more points than I thought he could this year. I'm pissed off at Sal and the play of our defense and off this years performance of it wasn't for crappy defensive play then we COULD be undefeated! Hahaha! I know but why couldn't we be. Well maybe a 1 loss team. Bama is an NFL team in college.
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The "progress" is not there. You dont look at "progress" by losing games by less. You look at it from a standpoint of where the program is headed and I think most would agree that next year is going to be another downward slide after guys like Bray, Patterson and Hunter leave earlyl. This staff does not recruit at a high enough level to win consistently in this league, especially when you consider the coaching deficienices.
 
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#58
#58
Montrell Hardy said:
I'm sorry but they are not going in a direction that is going to give them a chance to compete at the highest level in this league.

The coaching staff as a whole is not good enough, Dooley is not good enough and recruiting is not nearly good enough. (With this year easily being his worst class to date). If they were ever going to make a move this was the year to do it, because the roster is going to dip downwards once again beginning next season.

They need someone in here who will be able to recruit at an elite level.
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I totally agree with you. I really do. But I don't believe right now is that time. At the end of the year at minimum. And in my opinion after next year if it turns out the same.

Look what do other programs have to negatively recruit against us?

Not facilities. Not education. Not alumni. Not NFL possibility. Not Tradition. Not size of fanbase.

What they do have is the opinions of their fans.

I'd say to a recruit.

"Look. Fans hate the coaches. Fans don't believe. Though you have 105,000 at each game. They won't believe in you. They'll heckle their own coach. They'll write hateful things all the time about you. The culture has changed on Rocky Top. It's now a culture of hate, utter defeat and impatience. They'll never give you a chance. You'll be climbing out of a hole you'd have to choose to jump into. Come to school here. We have fan momentum and positivity."

How is Vandy recruiting as we'll as they are? They are freakin Vanderbilt! It's bc of the positive fanbase. It's very influential.

That's why I say we don't need to be so negative and talk about positives and fun something, anything to build upon. Not keep digging deeper. That's the whole point to this thread. We do ourselves a disservice and it has real world ramifications on recruits and the culture we want to build.
 
#60
#60
snake_anthony said:
Look what do other programs have to negatively recruit against us?
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They probably just ask the prospects if they want to win SEC games and go to bowl games or do they want to go to a program that is too poor to fire a proven loser who will throw you under the bus to the national media to try cover his own backside?
 
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#61
#61
snake_anthony said:
Just thinking. Like in the animal kingdom. There is always the most dominate then they get knocked off. Then another takes top spot. Then later another will take his spot.
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Marlon Perkins fan, eh?
perkins_tiger.jpg
 
#62
#62
snake_anthony said:
I totally agree with you. I really do. But I don't believe right now is that time. At the end of the year at minimum. And in my opinion after next year if it turns out the same.

Look what do other programs have to negatively recruit against us?

Not facilities. Not education. Not alumni. Not NFL possibility. Not Tradition. Not size of fanbase.

What they do have is the opinions of their fans.

I'd say to a recruit.

"Look. Fans hate the coaches. Fans don't believe. Though you have 105,000 at each game. They won't believe in you. They'll heckle their own coach. They'll write hateful things all the time about you. The culture has changed on Rocky Top. It's now a culture of hate, utter defeat and impatience. They'll never give you a chance. You'll be climbing out of a hole you'd have to choose to jump into. Come to school here. We have fan momentum and positivity."

How is Vandy recruiting as we'll as they are? They are freakin Vanderbilt! It's bc of the positive fanbase. It's very influential.

That's why I say we don't need to be so negative and talk about positives and fun something, anything to build upon. Not keep digging deeper. That's the whole point to this thread. We do ourselves a disservice and it has real world ramifications on recruits and the culture we want to build.
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I dont know how you expect the fans to react when they are losing like they have under Dooley, along with displaying a continual lack of fundamentals and discipline. That is just a natural reaction.

As for Vanderbilt, James Franklin is the reason they are recruiting well. And yes the fanbase is excited, but they are excited because of him. He has that ability to get fans excited, he is a very good recruiter, very personable and knows how to develop good relationships with high school coaches and parents, and he's also a lot more media saavy which does matter in this day and age. He gives off a much better perception than a guy like Dooley does.

I actually wouldn't mind Tennessee targeting him for the position. He'd certainly recruit a lot better in-state than Dooley has IMO.
 
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#63
#63
Montrell Hardy said:
I dont expect next year's coach to have them competing for an SEC Championship, but I have hope they can get someone in here that can recruit at a high enough level to compete in the future and at least have his team play with good discipline and good fundamentals.

Maybe the next hire will fail, but at least a new hire will attempt to get things back on track. I'd rather at try to get things fixed rathern than just settling for the product we've seen the last 3 years with no real positive outlook down the road.
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I agree completely. I don't think Dooley gets it done. But I don't think the time is right to fire him. Given the state of the budget and lost revenue and the buyouts and still paying off Fulmer I don't see it being possible to do it. Yes we have some new money coming in. But people want to talk about the Los revenue and the continued lost revenue of Dooley is kept around.

Well...I haven't really seen a low turn out of fans at games this year. Yes we should have more Tennessee Fans coming but there could e other economical factors contributing to thy and maybe losses are having too much blame on them. I'm not saying losing doesn't keep most of those from coming. But I go to them all and still contribute to the school.

If we had a more positive culture within our fanbase you'd have seen a 80-20 split at the Bama game. But with everyone assuming we'd get out tails whipped, I was surprised to see as much Orange as I did. Given the state of our program and the top rated Bama (barf) coming in to whoop us, I still say hope and love in all the fans. We thought we had a chance. You could feel it if you we're there. We may have expected to lose and were prepared but we still showed and cheered.
 
#64
#64
Montrell Hardy said:
I dont know how you expect the fans to react when they are losing like they have under Dooley, along with displaying a continual lack of fundamentals and discipline. That is just a natural reaction.

As for Vanderbilt, James Franklin is the reason they are recruiting well. And yes the fanbase is excited, but they are excited because of him. He has that ability to get fans excited, he is a very good recruiter, very personable and knows how to develop good relationships with high school coaches and parents, and he's also a lot more media saavy which does matter in this day and age. He gives off a much better perception than a guy like Dooley does.

I actually wouldn't mind Tennessee targeting him for the position. He'd certainly recruit a lot better in-state than Dooley has IMO.
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Valid reasoning.

But bc Dooley wasn't well known and Didn't have big name Recognition he wasn't well received by and thus never being able to e given a chance. When he came in. I thought he had energy and charisma. I feel the unsupportive culture of the fans towards him is showing its effects. If we has his back then I think he'd feel more supportive and happy thus showing that side of him more. Dooley wanted to come to Tennessee. He wanted to be successful. I like Dooley. Although he probably won get it done.

Unless we get a big name that makes every ones Gina's tingle then I don't believe we'll be back to where we all want to be anytime soon.

And I feel we could just be more of a help than a hinderance.

No one really ever gave him a chance ever embraced him.
 
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#66
#66
Hey guys I gotta get back to working. I'll hit y'all back up in a bit. I'm just glad I'm getting feedback and Thought provoking responses and engaging discussion than a bunch of a$$hole remarks and snid comments.

Can't wait to hear what else y'all can bring to the conversation.
 
#69
#69
snake_anthony said:
Let me make this short.

Besides the contracts and buyouts...

Consider we all and the athletic department understood we were and are in a rebuilding process.

Given that. We know its a hard road to travel.

When Dooley took on the job, when no one else would, we started walking down that road. With the strong state of the SEC it's understandable it's hard enough to crawl down that road much less run down it.

A 4-3 D wasn't going to allow us to compete like we want in the SEC. So what happens?

Hart and Dooley chose a DC that would help us transition to a 3-4.

Yes that sets us back a bit more. But everyone is talking about it takes money to make money. Well...same thing apples here. You have to set yourself back to be able to move forward. Like a rollercoaster.

Hart and Dooley understand, as well as boosters, that we may not have instant success, but allow them to find players that know the system coming in and compete.

With the talent we have, I've been happy with them competing like they have this year. Yes, I'd love to see more W's but they will come.

We now have a rebuilt foundation with talented players. We are growing.

So Hart knows what making the transition to a 3-4 could and probably would mean.

Dooley is a character guy. We don't need to keep talking about new coaches.

We need to talk about what changes on the field we need to make so that those moral victories turn into victories!

And it's not a new coach at the moment.

Our fan base needs to step it up in their combined logic. Be logical. Not emotional. Easier said than done, but still we need to learnt to bit the bullet.

Bc even if we hired Gruden or anyone, they would need time to put their stamp on the program and cross their fingers and pray theirs will be competitive.

The nature of the game is there are no guarantees.

Just bc Dooley doesn't have the rep or looks you might like doesn't mean once he puts into place his system and get the players AFTER rebuilding the foundation that he won't be successful.

Look at our offense, great!

Look at our defense, not so great!

That's bc we had to take a step back again to transition for our future, a brighter more competitive future, and its going to take a minute to get those players on defense.

So chill on filling up every thread with talking new coaches and be logical and allow our AD and coaches do what needs to be done even if they are putting the bullet on our mouths to bite.

Lets go enjoy some Fall Ball and try to shine some sun in these flowers. They need food and support

By the end of contracts the transition will be made and the players will be instilled. Allowing a new coach, then, to have the team and system they need to be successful as compete, if Dooley can't get it done by then.

Go Vols! Go BIG ORANGE!!!

(Guess I didn't make that short)
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what's it feel like being all up in Dooleys bunghole?
 
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#72
#72
Great thread, Wes. Too bad about ol` doolz. Maybe you can follow him to his next coaching job as a quality control coach in the MAC (if he even gets a position at that level).
 
#74
#74
0-5 in sec play, year 3.

but don't worry about it. we are showing excellent progress. Dooley has taught them how to play a game for 4 quarters and how to shower properly.
 
#75
#75
snake_anthony said:
I "liked" your post.

Yeah. But the progress is there. And the mistakes show the last few kinks that need to be worked out. And it's in play calling not necessarily the coaching staff. I believe they'll progress too in that regard.

It's like a tangled water hose. We are almost straightened out.

I played football. Sometimes other worse or better players out juked me. Or I slipped or just couldn't get the tackle. That's football.

I don't like Cheney but he has scored more points than I thought he could this year. I'm pissed off at Sal and the play of our defense and off this years performance of it wasn't for crappy defensive play then we COULD be undefeated! Hahaha! I know but why couldn't we be. Well maybe a 1 loss team. Bama is an NFL team in college.
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There has been some improvement. I see better running and blocking. That is all from great position coaching. I see a team that as a whole fights the whole game.

However, the poor defensive play is almost a deal breaker. Sal might be a good lb coach but is not a good dc. If he was he would adjust his scheme so our players could play faster. Watch the pre-snap adjustments. They are very chaotic.

I also see minimal improvement at the qb position. That is a coaching issue.

The receivers are not well coached compared to last year. Our best player can't remember his routes and our other great one is playing scared.

I will say there is no need to change just to change, but if a proven winner is out there we need to take them.

CDDs recruiting started off pretty good with his first class. It is not going so well going into his 4th class though. Granted he closes late on players but I am not sure kids are buying what he is selling anymore.

We need elite players to compete these days. It will be interesting to see how we close if Dooley is retained.

A big name coach might impress and land a few top classes coming out of the gate. The same rules apply to him though. If he can't win then what?
 
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