Homelessness Causes and Solutions

[McDad]

So they would be better off with less help?

We aren't on same page.
The issue isn't about access to help. It is about compliance with treatment protocols after they have received help. Once they feel better and are of 'sound mind' they cannot be forced to take meds, get counseling, etc. Even family members have a challenging time keeping the mentally ill on their meds. Help is there. Help cannot be forced.

 

[Vol8188]

But if families were a thing, housing would still be unaffordable. You're just dodging the point that the root of the problem is bad monetary policy since Obama. Saying theres no problem and that people should suffer more or that you dont care about other people's problems doesnt really address the issue.

Not if you understand supply and demand. More demand (smaller households) drives prices up. Homelessness is not primarily driven by housing cost nor inflation, but rather mental illness and drug abuse (often both).

People with chronic mental illness should be in a place that treats those problems.

You lose me here. First you say they should be “in a place that treats those problems” (I’m assuming that means in patient care)

Many can function on their own and just suffer periodic episodes that require treatment when they face certain stresses. Perhaps as portrayed in a beautiful.mind.

But then you say they can function on their own.

I can’t proclaim everyone needs confinement, but many of the homeless do.

 

[jvol1]

 

[jvol1]

Not if you understand supply and demand. More demand (smaller households) drives prices up. Homelessness is not primarily driven by housing cost nor inflation, but rather mental illness and drug abuse (often both).



You lose me here. First you say they should be “in a place that treats those problems” (I’m assuming that means in patient care)



But then you say they can function on their own.

I can’t proclaim everyone needs confinement, but many of the homeless do.

People are homeless at this particular moment because housing has become unaffordable for some people even when they have a job. The push for smaller homes has more to with affordability than that just one person wants to live there. Plenty of tiny homes are also family homes.

For those with mental illness that cant be treated, they should receive hospitalization or confinement. Most with mental illness suffer periods of heavy symptoms, call it mania or delusion, but then return to normalish with treatment. Periods of mania will be increased by the stresses of homelessnessness, so it improves their chance of success if they receive supportive housing.

 

[LouderVol]

People are homeless at this particular moment because housing has become unaffordable for some people even when they have a job. The push for smaller homes has more to with affordability than that just one person wants to live there. Plenty of tiny homes are also family homes.

For those with mental illness that cant be treated, they should receive hospitalization or confinement. Most with mental illness suffer periods of heavy symptoms, call it mania or delusion, but then return to normalish with treatment. Periods of mania will be increased by the stresses of homelessnessness, so it improves their chance of success if they receive supportive housing.

the issue is the efforts you are pushing are only going to further increase those costs. either directly or indirectly thru inflationary spending.

all you are doing is making the edge cases the next income level up.

Home building costs soar due to government regulations, material price increases

Regulations and codes add $93,870 to the cost of a new home, according to the National Association of Home Builders.

www.constructiondive.com

• Regulations imposed by all levels of government account for $93,870, or about 24% of the current average sales price ($397,300) of a new single-family home, according to a new study by the National Association of Home Builders. This amount marks a 10.9% increase over the past five years.

and a single family home has less regulations than pretty much any other form of construction. apartments its close to 40% of construction costs.

and the cost of the materials themselves, which this article lists as a separate cost increase, face similar regulatory pressure on prices. so its a compounding issue.

 

[Vol8188]

People are homeless at this particular moment because housing has become unaffordable for some people even when they have a job. The push for smaller homes has more to with affordability than that just one person wants to live there. Plenty of tiny homes are also family homes.

That’s just not reality. People unable to afford housing on one income can always live with friends or family. Unless they’re shooting up in the bathroom, or up all night talking to the television static.

For those with mental illness that cant be treated, they should receive hospitalization or confinement. Most with mental illness suffer periods of heavy symptoms, call it mania or delusion, but then return to normalish with treatment. Periods of mania will be increased by the stresses of homelessnessness, so it improves their chance of success if they receive supportive housing.

I think you’re missing the aspect of choice here. Meaning many do not want to be treated.

 

[whodeycin85]

I have always thought Heroin was the worst drug for addiction which destroyed a person's life. I think of cocaine as a more of a party drug.

Are there other drugs as bad as heroin for putting people on the street and into a desperate situation?

meth

 

[Vol8188]

Of course they are better off in mental health facilities. How is that even debatable?

I’m assuming you support Trump’s new EO since it forces people into mental health facilities?

https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/trump-order-pushes-forcible-hospitalization-of-homeless-people/

Fact Sheet: President Donald J. Trump Takes Action to End Crime and Disorder on America’s Streets

ENDING VAGRANCY AND RESTORING ORDER: Today, President Donald J. Trump signed an Executive Order to restore order to American cities and remove vagrant

www.whitehouse.gov

 

[BernardKingGOAT]

That’s just not reality. People unable to afford housing on one income can always live with friends or family. Unless they’re shooting up in the bathroom, or up all night talking to the television static.



I think you’re missing the aspect of choice here. Meaning many do not want to be treated.

This country ****ed up in the 1980s. The middle class shrunk substantially. Homelessness has grown almost exponentially since the 1980s for lots of reasons, but the deregulation that favored high finance set us back economically. The cuts at the SEC led to MBS fraud and ultimately an astronomical hit

 

[Vol8188]

This country ****ed up in the 1980s. The middle class shrunk substantially. Homelessness has grown almost exponentially since the 1980s for lots of reasons, but the deregulation that favored high finance set us back economically. The cuts at the SEC led to MBS fraud and ultimately an astronomical hit

Our country has only improved economically since the 1980s. Not sure what you’re talking about exactly

 

[BernardKingGOAT]

Our country has only improved economically since the 1980s. Not sure what you’re talking about exactly

Growth wise, yes. Unfortunately, the wealthy class has made significant gains, but the middle-class has contracted. The middle class was the driver of our economy up until 40 years ago, with insignificant debt and defecit in that practicing model. Now the debt and deficit are out of control. We can't continue to cater to the wealthy elites. We are a tiny speck in time. Much of the negative discourse in this country has been triggered by the fact much of our populace doesn't think about 100 years down the road

 

[Vol8188]

Growth wise, yes. Unfortunately, the wealthy class has made significant gains, but the middle-class has contracted. The middle class was the driver of our economy up until 40 years ago, with insignificant debt and defecit in that practicing model. Now the debt and deficit are out of control. We can't continue to cater to the wealthy elites. We are a tiny speck in time. Much of the negative discourse in this country has been triggered by the fact much of our populace doesn't think about 100 years down the road

All income levels are significantly better off today than 1980. Still not certain exactly what you’re talking about.

Also not sure how any of this relates to the debt or deficit.

 

[jvol1]

That’s just not reality. People unable to afford housing on one income can always live with friends or family. Unless they’re shooting up in the bathroom, or up all night talking to the television static.



I think you’re missing the aspect of choice here. Meaning many do not want to be treated.

Reality is that people not in the upper middle class dont have friends and family with a secure living situation to share. And the middle class with home ownership is only going to be shrinking with homes as unaffordable as they are now.

Not wanting treatment isn't a reason to not support homeless people. Theres a lot of leading the horse to water in medicine. Sometimes you have to do your best to look out for people when they wont look out for themselves.

 

[jvol1]

the issue is the efforts you are pushing are only going to further increase those costs. either directly or indirectly thru inflationary spending.

all you are doing is making the edge cases the next income level up.

Home building costs soar due to government regulations, material price increases

Regulations and codes add $93,870 to the cost of a new home, according to the National Association of Home Builders.

www.constructiondive.com

• Regulations imposed by all levels of government account for $93,870, or about 24% of the current average sales price ($397,300) of a new single-family home, according to a new study by the National Association of Home Builders. This amount marks a 10.9% increase over the past five years.

and a single family home has less regulations than pretty much any other form of construction. apartments its close to 40% of construction costs.

and the cost of the materials themselves, which this article lists as a separate cost increase, face similar regulatory pressure on prices. so its a compounding issue.

I've recommended a solution that increases regulation?

 

[Vol8188]

Reality is that people not in the upper middle class dont have friends and family with a secure living situation to share. And the middle class with home ownership is only going to be shrinking with homes as unaffordable as they are now.

This just isn’t reality. The idea that middle class don’t have family or friends?

Do you have any data to back up any of these absurd claims like the idea that homeless people are not primarily drug addicts and severely mentally ill?

Not wanting treatment isn't a reason to not support homeless people. Theres a lot of leading the horse to water in medicine. Sometimes you have to do your best to look out for people when they wont look out for themselves.

You’re fighting windmills. No one has opposed supporting homeless people.

 

[DinkinFlicka]

I have always thought Heroin was the worst drug for addiction which destroyed a person's life. I think of cocaine as a more of a party drug.

Are there other drugs as bad as heroin for putting people on the street and into a desperate situation?

Heroin ruins lives of the user and those connected to them, but one can still be a high functioning addict with it. Same goes for cocaine. Quitting heroin is considerably more difficult in the long term as coke is more of a lifestyle addiction, intertwined with status and social interaction. Heroin is a routine, and a part of you.

Neither can hold a candle to crack and meth, imo. That sh*t turns you into something between a hollow human and a rabid zombie. It strips away a person's humanity.

Those two tie for your trophy.

 

[LouderVol]

I've recommended a solution that increases regulation?

you want the government involved don't you? I believe it was providing housing, and help for the mentally ill. that isn't free, and our government is out of money before its even done paying the military. everything after them is deficit spending.

 

[KB5252]

We aren't on same page.
The issue isn't about access to help. It is about compliance with treatment protocols after they have received help. Once they feel better and are of 'sound mind' they cannot be forced to take meds, get counseling, etc. Even family members have a challenging time keeping the mentally ill on their meds. Help is there. Help cannot be forced.

I agree with this completely. I've known a couple of people with issues. One guy I knew all my life, played little league ball with him. He struggled on and off for years.

About two weeks before his death he started posting videos in front of electrical devices documenting what the CIA parked right up the street was targeting him with.

I reached out to him and spoke with him over the phone a couple of times that week. I called his older brother and he had seen it as well but he'd been cut off by his brother and police were unable to do anything.

About a week later he ended up traveling from Antioch to the general area his brother lived near Monteagle. Had a gun and ended up on foot in the woods with a gun. He was killed by officers there.

It's a difficult issue, he had been on and off meds for years. Always stopped taking his meds started drinking and taking pills. When he was in managed facilities he was fine. When he wasn't he always fell back into his psychosis.

I think there should be two main types of facilities. One for repeat criminal offenders who are a danger to society without constant supervision, they would allow little to no contact with the outside world. And others where jobs can be held and people go to work but live in managed communities with varying degrees of self management based on their abilities/prognosis.

 

[Jxn Vol]

To solve homelessness we need more homes. I bet if the government built thousands of government homes that would solve the problem. I bet the homes would be well taken care of and remain in good condition since the folks in them would be so appreciative to have somewhere to stay.

Am I missing anything?

 

[KB5252]

To solve homelessness we need more homes. I bet if the government built thousands of government homes that would solve the problem. I bet the homes would be well taken care of and remain in good condition since the folks in them would be so appreciative to have somewhere to stay.

Am I missing anything?

Yes. More than you know.

 

[Jxn Vol]

Yes. More than you know.

You need to go sweep your yard.

 

[jvol1]

you want the government involved don't you? I believe it was providing housing, and help for the mentally ill. that isn't free, and our government is out of money before its even done paying the military. everything after them is deficit spending.

As far as buildings regs go, less govt would probably be more - that's a local issue not federal, but I dont think that will help housing prices in the current moment. Houses are selling well above materials and labor costs currently.

People have a right to healthcare and that's starts at the government level. Public funds to private companies would work fine as far as the execution goes, though.

 

[jvol1]

This just isn’t reality. The idea that middle class don’t have family or friends?

Do you have any data to back up any of these absurd claims like the idea that homeless people are not primarily drug addicts and severely mentally ill?



You’re fighting windmills. No one has opposed supporting homeless people.

People "not" in the upper middle class.

I have no idea the rates, but I'm sure homelessness only increases them. Providing housing would help control both mental illness and addiction.

 

[C-south]

To solve homelessness we need more homes. I bet if the government built thousands of government homes that would solve the problem. I bet the homes would be well taken care of and remain in good condition since the folks in them would be so appreciative to have somewhere to stay.

Am I missing anything?

Throw in some free guns for “home defense”.

 

[LouderVol]

As far as buildings regs go, less govt would probably be more - that's a local issue not federal, but I dont think that will help housing prices in the current moment. Houses are selling well above materials and labor costs currently.

People have a right to healthcare and that's starts at the government level. Public funds to private companies would work fine as far as the execution goes, though.

I am an architect, its not the local building codes that are the issue. the EPA, which has no knowledge about buildings, have inserted themselves multiple times recently, but they aren't the only fed to get involved.

-Obama's Clean Water Act, both reduced the amount of buildable land, by arbitrarily changing what counts as a water way. but also drastically increased the "protections" for water ways. some made sense and were needed, but most have just been tossed out there to say they changing something.
-the EPAs treatment to anything natural gas related, not just bans, but additional standards and components. again some make sense but then others don't.
-the change in the refrigerant used. they banned the old stuff, and the new one is considered flammable. yeah they are requiring flammable refrigerant. the industry reached out to them about how unsafe it was, and the EPA just straight up ignored us. it was better for homes to burn down than for there to be a .5 difference in GWP available. for about 2 years there was only 1 way to safely handle that new refrigerant. build a fire rated chase for each refrigerant line. hecking expensive and labor intensive, plus the added danger of working with a flammable liquid. thankfully the industry eventually figured out ways to handle the flammable liquid without a chase, but its essentially doubling the cost of each AC system. *also there is a good bit of corruption when it came to the selection of that flammable refrigerant but I will leave that to a different rant*
-most of the red tape increasing cost have been on the manufacturer side, while doing little to nothing to make a better end product.
-another energy saving one has been the requirement for a digital disconnect switch on building transformers over a certain size. disconnects aren't bad, in fact there is already a physical disconnect required for the same amperage. but the government thinks it will save energy to add a digital disconnect after the physical one. when just added a component, that can fail, requires maintenance, adds another point for the system to get hacked, and its completely pointless. the physical switch creates a literal physical break in the electrical connections so that electricity can't flow. this new digital switch is just a little chip telling the electricity if it can flow or not via some regulating piece that doesn't actually create a physical disconnect. it doesn't take an electrical engineering degree to figure out what is wrong there.

typically the building code changes that cost the most money are driven by the fed government. yeah an independent agency creates the building codes, but they are responding to requirements set by non-elected bureaucrats.