Historians rank top Presidents on Leadership

[gsvol]

I cannot argue against FDR having failed at several projects but the hope he provided the people during the depression cannot be overlooked. Futhermore, as with Lincoln, who else would you want running World War II?

Andrew Jackson, he was the only president before or after to have paid off the national dept and gave us what the declaration of independence promised, freedom!!

FDR sucked at everything.

FDR didn't give me hope, my family that believed in freedom gave me hope, FDR offered me slavery and I rejected it completely!!

It took 57 years and the courageous efforts of Admiral Moorer to exonerate the Admirals at Peal Harbor before congress after Roosevelt had scapegoated them.

Debunking the FDR myth completely!

 

[gsvol]

From what little I know, I would say WWII and a select few of his public works projects (Hoover Dam for example) saved FDR's presidential legacy. Before that, his social programs and economic policies did very little in the short-term and proved to be disasterous in the long-term. He can thank WWII for pulling us out of the depression. He was a decent wartime president and seemed to work well with his allies.

That may all be wrong, but it is my impression.

Roosevelt was a horrible war time president.

First he promised not to get us into the war and then did on purpose.

What made America successful in WWII was American free enterprise, patriotic hard working citizens with a second to none work ethic, 12 million of our finest young men under arms and excellent military leadership.

If FDR had his way, his General of Public Works, George Marshall would have had us make disastrous military decisions, fortunately we had Eisenhower and others with more snese.

Gen Marshal described Mao as; "just an old-fashioned agrarian reformer."

Roosevelt probably lost more in his conferences with Stalin that we won on the battlefields.

 

[OrangeEmpire]

I knew you wouldn't read it.

Who did Russia fight in the Crimean war??

When was that?

And the French and British sided with the Turks in that war.

You think the Russians weren't still POed???

Tell me this oh glib one, why did the Russians sell us Alaska??





Your name calling really establishes your knowledge, or lack thereof.

Luckily most of FDRs socialist new deal initiatives were ruled unconstitutional.

His policies did nothing to alleviate the depression.

When I think of Woodrow Wilson and FDR, I think of betrayals of the American people.

When I think of FDR I think of American farming cooperatives and his adoration for Uncle Joe and I think of Alger Hiss.

I think of his administration as being the one who drove Africdan Americans off their land and into the cities.

When I think of FDR I think of his maternal grandfather Warren Delano who made a fortune smuggling opium into China, causing great misery, death and hardship. FDR always knew the origin of the family fortune but refused to discuss it.

I'll tell you just like I told one of my own children this week, if you only look at one side of a coin, you never know heads from tails.

FDR aided and abetted the wolf in sheep's clothing super rich to rape America financially and economically.

It was during the administration of FDR that the super wealthy put all their money in tax free trusts and foundations that make them above paying public taxes.

"Capital must protect itself in every way...Debts must be collected and loans and mortgages foreclosed as soon as possible. When through a process of law the common people have lost their homes, they will be more tractable and more easily governed by the strong arm of the law applied by the central power of leading financiers.

People without homes will not quarrel with their leaders. This is well known among our principal men now engaged in forming an imperialism of capitalism to govern the world. By dividing the people we can get them to expend their energies in fighting over questions of no importance to us except as teachers of the common herd."--

Taken from the Civil Servants' Year Book,
"The Organizer" January 1934.

Franklin Delano Roosevelt is a detestable human being, if you can call him that!

And don't give me all that claptrap you've read about him, I personally listened to Roosevelt fireside chats on a battery radio before we had electricity, he had a charming voice, just like our current POTUS but just like our current POTUS, he was a wolf in sheep's clothing.

Easy, Russia didn’t want to spend the money necessary to secure Alaska but also didn’t want to strengthen the British by selling it to them. Russia and Britain, after all, had been at war in the Crimea from 1854 to 1856.

Negotiations began in 1859, but they broke off when the Civil War approached. In February 1867 they began again. By this time Seward was Secretary of State under President Andrew Johnson, and so de Stoeckl negotiated with a friend. After an all-night session, agreement was reached on the morning of March 30.

 

[OrangeEmpire]

Roosevelt was a horrible war time president.

First he promised not to get us into the war and then did on purpose.

What made America successful in WWII was American free enterprise, patriotic hard working citizens with a second to none work ethic, 12 million of our finest young men under arms and excellent military leadership.

If FDR had his way, his General of Public Works, George Marshall would have had us make disastrous military decisions, fortunately we had Eisenhower and others with more snese.

Gen Marshal described Mao as; "just an old-fashioned agrarian reformer."

Roosevelt probably lost more in his conferences with Stalin that we won on the battlefields.

That was a campaign slogan... he knew we would go to war and so did Eleanor............ That was one of FDR's greatest regrets but he felt he had to be re-elected.

FDR held every thing together and you cannot take that away from him!

 

[gsvol]

Easy, Russia didn’t want to spend the money necessary to secure Alaska but also didn’t want to strengthen the British by selling it to them. Russia and Britain, after all, had been at war in the Crimea from 1854 to 1856.

Negotiations began in 1859, but they broke off when the Civil War approached. In February 1867 they began again. By this time Seward was Secretary of State under President Andrew Johnson, and so de Stoeckl negotiated with a friend. After an all-night session, agreement was reached on the morning of March 30.

Are you reading that from the text of a high school history book??

Some say 'Sewarts folly' was a pay off to the Russians for their support of the Union.

That was a campaign slogan... he knew we would go to war and so did Eleanor............ That was one of FDR's greatest regrets but he felt he had to be re-elected.

FDR held every thing together and you cannot take that away from him!

Held everything together? What do you mean by that? The work ethic of the American people held things together.

I find it hard to understand why you hold Wilson in such low regard and FDR in such high regard when their domestic and foreign policies were practically identical, not only that, their methodologies were also similar.

The Roosevelt myth.

Read again the warnings he uttered to his own people against those wicked men who would seize upon a war in Europe to entangle them upon specious visions of false war abundance. Read the speeches he made never, never again to send our sons to fight in foreign wars. Look up the promises he made, not to our own people, but to the Chinese, to Poland, to Czechoslovakia, to the Baltic peoples in Lithuania and Latvia and Estonia, to the Jews out of one side of his mouth and to the Arabs out of the other side. He broke every promise. He betrayed all who trusted him.

 

[tvolsfan]

FDR held every thing together and you cannot take that away from him!

Not by a logical argument, anyways.

 

[tvolsfan]

All right gsvol, I'm not going to read any of your long drawn out posts, because in the past when I have done that, I found they didn't go anywhere and were incredibly one sided. If you want to argue your point, sum everything up. If you choose not to, its fine. I realize you probably don't care if I like your opinions, and the feeling is mutual.

 

[overseasorange2]

All right gsvol, I'm not going to read any of your long drawn out posts, because in the past when I have done that, I found they didn't go anywhere and were incredibly one sided. If you want to argue your point, sum everything up. If you choose not to, its fine. I realize you probably don't care if I like your opinions, and the feeling is mutual.

For gsvol post, I wait for the Cliff Notes. It takes most of the BS out.

 

[OrangeEmpire]

Are you reading that from the text of a high school history book??

Some say 'Sewarts folly' was a pay off to the Russians for their support of the Union.



Held everything together? What do you mean by that? The work ethic of the American people held things together.

I find it hard to understand why you hold Wilson in such low regard and FDR in such high regard when their domestic and foreign policies were practically identical, not only that, their methodologies were also similar.

The Roosevelt myth.

Why would I quote from a high school text book?

The Russians ships were of no importance and meant nothing.

Wilson is a good example of the lowest form of life. No need to explain further, he is a racist piece of trash who despised liberty!

FDR held the country together during the depression and World War II. You can try to argue against it but it is impossible.

The depression and World War II generation would do any thing for the man and they talked about how great he was to this day.

You cannot take that away from FDR!

 

[OrangeEmpire]

Not by a logical argument, anyways.

Say wha?

 

[gsvol]

All right gsvol, I'm not going to read any of your long drawn out posts, because in the past when I have done that, I found they didn't go anywhere and were incredibly one sided. If you want to argue your point, sum everything up. If you choose not to, its fine. I realize you probably don't care if I like your opinions, and the feeling is mutual.

If you only look at one side of a coin then you will never know heads from tails.

Fifteen years after the end of WWII I remember a Lithuanian headmaster under which I studied, being completely appalled that none of his American students were aware of FDR's betrayal of the Baltic States into the hands of the Stalinist USSR.

Funny thing, I've met Lithuanians who were able to escape the murderous tyrants of the communist world and immigrate to America, from NY to Miami to LA and every one, when they found out I was from Tennessee, wanted to know if I could get them some good Tennessee moonshine.

I tell you what, I'll use my methodology and you stick with your short slogans and bon mots and we'll both be happy, your whining accomplishes nothing.

I had a very nice summation in the above post that reveals FDR to be nothing more than a good liar who betrayed everyone who trusted him.

For gsvol post, I wait for the Cliff Notes. It takes most of the BS out.

Read a lot of Spider man do you??

Are you working for Steve Forbes over there??

The Russians ships were of no importance and meant nothing.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on that.


Wilson is a good example of the lowest form of life. No need to explain further, he is a racist piece of trash who despised liberty!

We agree on that, furthermore he sold America to the international bankers, promised we would not get into WWI but then contrived to get us in, he supported the overthrow of the Christian Romanoffs in favor of an athiest marxist government, and finally he sold the Germans on his fourteen point plan to end WWI but then only one point was adopted, forming the League of Nations and the treaty to end the war, as the lead British negotiator, who walked out in disgust, said; "this isn't a peace treaty, this is a contract for another war."


FDR held the country together during the depression and World War II. You can try to argue against it but it is impossible.

I give far more credit to the great generation than to FDR, he used the circumstances to advance his socialist ideas and in the end, he helped Mao capture China, greatly enhanced the position of Stalin giving him control of all of eastern Europe and put the very same people back in power in Japan the only difference was there was no more figurehead Hirohito.

The five Samuria clans are still the power behind politics in Japan, to this day.

He was just a racist as Wilson, he did nothing to integrate our armed forces, Eisenhower did that.

FDR's farming cooperatives were even segregated by race.



The depression and World War II generation would do any thing for the man and they talked about how great he was to this day.

Nice bit of propaganda, let me remind you that I remember listening to Roosevelt's fireside chats over the radio and I assure you the cult of personality, hero worship you project did NOT exist except in the NY Times and perhaps in some academic circles, either during the depression or during and especially after WWII.

 

[gsvol]

Furthermore FDR betrayed our Serbian allies in Yugoslavia into the hands of the marxist Tito.

That's a good start on just who FDR really was, if you think FDR was all that great, then I would imagine you will absolutely :worship: Obama.

Those who cannot understand history are condemned to repeat it, after spending all sorts of public funds and greatly increasing the national debt but in 1932 there were 11,385,000 unemployed, in November 1937, there were 7,000,000 people out of work.

In January, 1938, John D. Biggers staggered the administration with his report after a survey that there were 10 million out of work. Soon it would be 11,800,000 * more than were unemployed when Roosevelt was elected in 1932.

Government deficits were running $300,000,000 per month and FDR had not the foggiest idea what to do about getting out of the hole they were in, except to spend.

FDR's policies did nothing to pull out of the economic depression, on the contrary they perpetuated the economic depression.

When the President uttered his doleful complaint there was an ominous silence around the cabinet board. As Henry Morgenthau relates it, he, the meek and humble shadow of the Great Man, took his courage in his hands and, like an aroused bunny, looked the bull dog in the face. He said:

"You can do something about it. You can do something about the railroads. You can do something about housing. Above all, you can do something to reassure business."

Then he waited for the walls to fall in. They didn't, so he went on: "What business wants to know is: are we headed toward Socialism or are we going to continue on a capitalist basis?"

Roosevelt muttered that he had told them that again and again.

"All right," said Henry, "tell them for the fifteenth time."

The country had in 1938, really reached a greater crisis than in 1933. The public debt, which was 22 billion when Roosevelt took office * almost all a heritage of (Woodrow Wilson's) World War I * was now 37 billion. Taxes were more than doubled. The President had a war on against the conservatives in his party and his own cabinet was split and angry. Unemployment was several thousand more than it was in October, 1932.

 

[OrangeEmpire]

I suppose you were all for camels replacing horses during the Civil War?

I hate FDR's socialists programs more than you can ever imagine but you cannot take away what he did for this country during the depression and World War II.

 

[WA_Vol]

I hate FDR's socialists programs more than you can ever imagine but you cannot take away what he did for this country during the depression and World War II.

I agree. Lincoln, Washington, and FDR are the 3 greatest Presidents because they faced the 3 greatest challenges of any President; the American Revolution, Civil War, and WWII. Without their success the country as we know it wouldn't exist.

 

[OrangeEmpire]

I agree. Lincoln, Washington, and FDR are the 3 greatest Presidents because they faced the 3 greatest challenges of any President; the American Revolution, Civil War, and WWII. Without their success the country as we know it wouldn't exist.

Dang it!

We agree yet again!

 

[gsvol]

I suppose you were all for camels replacing horses during the Civil War?

I hate FDR's socialists programs more than you can ever imagine but you cannot take away what he did for this country during the depression and World War II.

So what did he do for his country during the depression and WWII?

Dang it!

We agree yet again!

Erroneously, Jefferson, Jackson and JFK should all be ahead of FDR.

 

[OrangeEmpire]

So what did he do for his country during the depression and WWII?



Erroneously, Jefferson, Jackson and JFK should all be ahead of FDR.

HOPE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The man didn't want to be president toward the latter end of his life but he felt the higher calling to finish the job.

How many jerks have been president that would have done that?

 

[OrangeYankee]

I dunno... FDR did more damage than good over the long haul and the short. He spent like crazy to dig us out of a hole and it did not work. Had WWII not happened that necessitated the need for production, I'm not sure that we would have ever recovered from his "programs." And, even if he was good, the problem still remains that a good majority of his programs were the start of a precedence that instilled the mindset of entitlement and it's the government's responsibility that is absolutely desecrating us now. LBJ (who was a mentor of his from what I've read and seen), further worsened those with the great crock of lies otherwise known as the "great society."

I fear we, as a society, will never learn the lesson that Government cannot ever solve or is capable of running a fraction of the services we've allowed them to take over and administer. Social Security is a great one. The return on the investment of over 10% of your lifetime's income should be the cause of outrage, and should have been for decades.

As far as the whole Civil War and Abraham Lincoln thing. The main factor in dispute was slavery, but at the heart of it was the fact that the Feds wanted to dictate to States what they could or could not do (IE make Slavery Legal). The cause (slavery) was noble, but the costs were so far reaching and detrimental. The entire foundation of what our Nation was built on and how it was supposed to work, was completely shifted at that point. You fast forward to now, and we in Tennessee are getting ready to see our money go to a State (California) that should be allowed to fall on its face for being far to overbearing on the private sector, and making the stupid decision to becoming beholden to "Labor" in all public services. Why? Because the Federal Government rules it all now, and there is hardly a thing we can say about it anymore.

 

[WA_Vol]

I dunno... FDR did more damage than good over the long haul and the short. He spent like crazy to dig us out of a hole and it did not work. Had WWII not happened that necessitated the need for production, I'm not sure that we would have ever recovered from his "programs."

The policy you advocate was tried by Hoover, it didn't work. FDR gave the people hope, there was very little when he took office.

 

[BigPapaVol]

The policy you advocate was tried by Hoover, it didn't work. FDR gave the people hope, there was very little when he took office.

How did that "hope" manifest itself?

 

[OrangeYankee]

I'm not sure I follow. The only thing I advocated up there was that I do think things would be better if the States had more control of their own destiny.

Edit: To follow this up, Hoover is the exact opposite of what I advocate in general. He was a progressive, and was for more regulation and government intervention into our daily lives. I'm not laying blame on FDR for the depression, but he sure didn't help things either. And my main point was, even if he was the savior of the nation and was solely responsible for getting us out, the long term effects of his programs have been detrimental (mainly social security in my mind). And I don't want a President to give me "Hope" I want him to give me leadership and try to oversee the navigation out of a tough time be it economical, social, or through a war.

 

[MG1968]

How did that "hope" manifest itself?

a 25% unemployment rate by 1938?

 

[OrangeEmpire]

The policy you advocate was tried by Hoover, it didn't work. FDR gave the people hope, there was very little when he took office.

:hi:

 

[OrangeEmpire]

How did that "hope" manifest itself?

Global super power!

 

[OrangeEmpire]

I'm not sure I follow. The only thing I advocated up there was that I do think things would be better if the States had more control of their own destiny.

Edit: To follow this up, Hoover is the exact opposite of what I advocate in general. He was a progressive, and was for more regulation and government intervention into our daily lives. I'm not laying blame on FDR for the depression, but he sure didn't help things either. And my main point was, even if he was the savior of the nation and was solely responsible for getting us out, the long term effects of his programs have been detrimental (mainly social security in my mind). And I don't want a President to give me "Hope" I want him to give me leadership and try to oversee the navigation out of a tough time be it economical, social, or through a war.

= the greatest of a human strength!