Here's the BB Coach To Hire....

#51
#51
Tasks for new AD Currie:

1. Reinstate Lady Vols program with designated associate AD for Lady Vols
2. Work with LV associate to replace HW
3. Fire Butch Jones and replace him immediately (no "search" just a plan)
4. Start planning for Barnes to retire
5. Evaluate other sports and act as appropriate
 
#53
#53
I did a really long a analysis. I wont post it here but ill post the results of ny anaylsis.

1. Holly Warlick is not getting fired.
 
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#54
#54
OrangeByBirth said:
Tasks for new AD Currie:

1. Reinstate Lady Vols program with designated associate AD for Lady Vols
2. Work with LV associate to replace HW
3. Fire Butch Jones and replace him immediately (no "search" just a plan)
4. Start planning for Barnes to retire
5. Evaluate other sports and act as appropriate
Click to expand...

Lol....no
 
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#56
#56
OrangeByBirth said:
Tasks for new AD Currie:

1. Reinstate Lady Vols program with designated associate AD for Lady Vols
2. Work with LV associate to replace HW
3. Fire Butch Jones and replace him immediately (no "search" just a plan)
4. Start planning for Barnes to retire
5. Evaluate other sports and act as appropriate
Click to expand...

By Birth huh? That orange umbilical cord get wrapped around your neck?
 
#58
#58
What about the coach at West Virginia as a candidate? Or the one at Oregon State? Becky H.is another option, as someone has already mentioned. There are several coaches the UT administration could check out. There ARE options out there. Many think there isn't. That's not true.

And about Brenda Freese, she has been a good coach for Maryland but the fanbase would never tolerate her coming to Knoxville. She burnt that bridge long ago. Geno would almost have a better chance than Brenda Freese coming to UT.
 
#59
#59
Currie, being new, will probably give Warlck a year or two. That would be very unfortunate for the program, as it means that we will continue to stumble along, achieving....nothing, a powerhouse program turned also-ran. Warlick should have been given two/three years max as a courtesy to Summitt. That she is still coaching the team, still scratching her head after another loss, is a joke.
 
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#60
#60
armchair said:
Currie, being new, will probably give Warlck a year or two. That would be very unfortunate for the program, as it means that we will continue to stumble along, achieving....nothing, a powerhouse program turned also-ran. Warlick should have been given two/three years max as a courtesy to Summitt. That she is still coaching the team, still scratching her head after another loss, is a joke.
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So you would have fired her after going 30-6 15-1 in the SEC?
 
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#61
#61
I really admired this post and the way it addressed the multiple facets of the program. I do sometimes think that HW gets little credit for the many things she's done well thus far. Unless they won a NC, no one was going to win the "I'm Pat's Replacement" battle. Not sure folks heard Gary Blair's extended praise of HW. Any replacement coach would be be a gamble, just ask Vandy.

I do think ill-timed injuries of our best players have really dimmed our results. Izzy, Ariel, DD, Graves, Cooper, Carter. There are a couple of Final Fours and numerous regular season wins lost by those injuries. I know this is part of the game, but not every team is under the microscope like TN.

Because HW is ultimately loyal and had success, I would give more time. I've lived through the post-Fulmer years in TN football from a too-quick hook. Of course, this isn't our decision. Our role as fans is to support our team and coach.

Again, thank you so much for your level-headed analysis.



ocoandasoc said:
Okay, here are the problems. And the first one is about definitions.

Everyone wants: 1. the legacy rebuilt/continued, 2. for the LV's to challenge for Conference titles, Final Fours and an NC. 3. solid recruiting efforts and player improvement. 4. a good “in-game” coach that can run great, productive practices, make winning strategic game plans and adjustments and out-coach the opposition.

Let's analyze...

Legacy Rebuilt/Continued – Does this mean rule the WCBB landscape the way Pat once did? Push past UConn as the pre-eminent women's basketball program? Neither of these is going to happen. Period. Pat's legacy is PAT's Legacy. She's gone, and it is too. Holly can't do the same thing. The hope would be that she could do something similar. UConn, and other top programs, will rise and fall on their own accord. No one will ever touch Auriemma's record, just like no one will ever touch Wooden's. There'll be an Auriemma legacy, and a Summitt legacy, and a Vandeveer legacy, and maybe a Staley legacy. Besides, legacies like Pat's consist of more than just wins and losses. Holly and any new coach are doomed to failure if this criteria is paramount and taken literally.

Challenge for Titles and Final Fours – Yes, this is doable. But what does “challenge” mean? Can we quantify it? Are we looking for consistency or occasional breakthroughs? Over the next ten years, what would be an acceptable level of success? Holly has a .738 winning percentage, with three Elite Eights and one Sweet Sixteen and two conference championships in her five years as coach. Admittedly, though, the trend the last two years is down, and the team that beat the #3, #4, #6, #7, #19, and #25 teams on the AP Top 25 list and the top four finishers in the SEC wound up at #33 nationally and fifth in the SEC because of eight losses to unranked teams. But it does mean that she has “challenged” for the Conference Championship and the Final Four more times than not. Obviously, that's not good enough for most fans... so what should the target be for, say, the next five years? Three conference championships, three Final Fours, an .850 winning percentage and at least one National Championship? And if anything less than that occurs – hire a new coach? Is that realistic?

Recruiting/Player Improvement – Tenn fans have this strange tendency to over-value the skills of their program's recruits and then be disappointed with the results they achieve. Many were convinced that landing Russell, and then DeShields meant that a NC was in the bag. But there are open questions here. Were the players as good as advertised? Were recruiting needs met, rather than just drafting the kids rated the highest by some recruiting service or, God forbid, ESPN? Once recruited were the players put in the correct “system” to match their skills, and were those skills “developed” during their time at UT? And did these kids have the right “work ethic” to begin with? And, if not, whose fault is that? This issue is hard to resolve; and with a top class of recruits coming in, I sense that expectations are unusually low at this point. So Holly may have succeeded in lowering expectations just enough so that the team might be able to meet them. But if DeShields and Russell leave she'll have to lower them a LOT more.

Game Coaching – Okay, I won't kid you. Nobody thinks Holly is a good game coach. I've never attended a practice so I can't comment on that. Heck, Holly doesn't even seem like she knows why the team lost after the game is over, much less at half-time. And she seems almost equally mystified when the team wins. But here's a caveat... a lot of coaches are very smooth when it comes to explaining wins and losses, and screaming instructions and exhortations during the game, time-outs and in the locker rooms. A lot of them aren't really good coaches at all. And no points are scored at half-time or in post-game press conferences. A lot of really good coaches are eloquently non-committal after a game... until they've studied the video six or eight times. And, of course, that doesn't do any good unless you've got the basketball smarts and aptitude to know what adjustments are possible with the arsenal you have and you're confident enough to issue the orders to your staff and actually make your players comply.

So have I made it all clear? Of course not. Because it isn't clear at all, and never will be.

What is my opinion on all this? Well. It's not clear cut. In fact, it's a very close call, and not a fair one. But I think I'd make a change as soon as the LV's lost in the Tourney. There are problems with a team that has Top 10 talent and loses to eight unranked teams. Problems that Holly either can't recognize or is unable to fix. I think Holly is probably in the top third of all WCBB coaches, but that will never be enough for the Summitt-spoiled fans. They need a Top 10 coach... and, yes, they're hard to come by, and there are no guarantees. But it's impossible to steal second base – much less get to third or home – if you keep one foot on first base. Tenn has coasted through two double-digit-loss seasons. But a few more and they'll run out of momentum. The warning signs are there.

This new class has a lot of promise. If they're used correctly and developed. Heck, a change might even make it more likely that DD or MR stay, it surely wouldn't make them more likely to leave. A new coach would have no loyalty to some of the players that have mailed it in in some games this year. He or she (and it CAN be a HE or a SHE) could take a fresh look at the talent and make decisions based on the future of the program, not the past. A new coach – and a whole new coaching staff – might be able to analyze the talent, the trends and opposition in the SEC, and prevent any existing negative attitudes from infecting the new recruits.

Who to hire? A proven head coach from a major conference. One who's done a lot with the talent he or she has, but is at a school without a WCBB pedigree that helps their recruiting. You'll find them in the SEC, the ACC, the Big 12. Maybe even in the AAC, Big 10, or Big East. (I'd avoid the Pac 12 – not sure the style of play or recruiting in that conference would translate to the SEC.)

I'm sure there'll be plenty of folks with strong opinions about who the best candidates are.

So do I think this is going to happen? No. Unless next year is a total washout, I expect Holly has at least two more years, maybe more. And perhaps, if she keeps challenging for Conference titles and Final Fours, a lot more.
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#62
#62
CincyLadyVol said:
What about the coach at West Virginia as a candidate? Or the one at Oregon State? Becky H.is another option, as someone has already mentioned. There are several coaches the UT administration could check out. There ARE options out there. Many think there isn't. That's not true.

And about Brenda Freese, she has been a good coach for Maryland but the fanbase would never tolerate her coming to Knoxville. She burnt that bridge long ago. Geno would almost have a better chance than Brenda Freese coming to UT.
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You can take it to the bank Mike Carey will never come to UT. Two big reasons but there are more. (1) Lady Vol baggage - Mike Carey is colorful. He is as demanding and has the demeanor of Pat Summit but it often comes with colorful language. You think he's gonna wanna see stories published by Maria Cornelius or another LV with media connections about his "bullying" style to players as a gotcha in response to UT hiring a male to fill Summit's seat? No chance in hell... It is well known the core backers behind the logo reinstatement will also flip their lid if a male is hired to coach the LV basketball team.

(2) Mike Carey is not working for John Currie. Period. Maybe John will change, but he is known in Big 12 administrative and coaching circles. Too well known and its not for the better.

I'm glad someone else recognizes Brenda Friese is not coming here. Brenda would coach demons from the University of H*ll before she coaches at UT.
 
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#65
#65
Darth_Vol said:
Listening to Diamond interviewed a while back about why she came to Tennessee she went on and on about the history of excellence, the championships, the legendary players, the mystique, growing up a fan when Pat was here, and any mention of Holly was almost an afterthought. My point is, I wonder how much of the great recruiting is really Holly, and how much is the remnants of the program Pat built....
Click to expand...

I'm a guest so I will not venture an opinion about Holly's status as your coach, but as to your last point, I think the allure of a great brand name, which is really one of Pat's greatest legacies, can have a long afterglow, but it isn't one that is indefinite.

It's been five years now since she coached; in another two years, some of the players UT will be recruiting will have been as young as 8 when Pat left the sidelines. I'm not sure how much knowledge and emotional investment they will have had in Pat and the great program she built when it comes time to make their decisions.

However it happens, I hope your program can turn around in the very near future.
 
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#66
#66
armchair said:
in the pro-Warlick camp? You must be old timers. Have you actually watched this team play basketball for the last five years? Apparently not. We've not been good. We are not in the Top 25. We were seeded 7th--7th--in the SEC last year and 5th this year. Playing well every fourth game is not the mark of a good program. You seem to adopted the standards of Appalachian State. You state that if the UTAD fired Warlick, "the negative national press would be massive." That is a comically inane--stupid--statement. Why would the press be negative? Because of all that Warlick has achieved? She hasn't achieved ANYTHING. In fact, the reaction would be just the opposite--those who follow women's basketball would consider it a smart move. You say that there is a debate about whether the Vols might again get back to the top with Warlick. Need I remind you that the Warlick has been coaching the Vols for 6 years and we haven't even gotten to the Final Four--haven't been there for 10 years? She's a lousy coach. Banghart would coach circles around--like lots of other coaches have.

Did someone just mention the fact that they don't recruit in the Ivy League. Anybody who thinks Banghart couldn't recruit is thick. She wins. She's got qualities that Warlick doesn't have and will never have. Warlick's recruiting has been up and down--her problem is that she can't coach. We just lost to the 12the seeded Alabama--our second loss to them. There are dozens of coaches who would make us a much better program than we've been for 10 years, and yet some still believe that Warlick is the answer. Oh, my. :eek:hmy:
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Ivy league schools do not offer atheletic scholarships...parts of me are thick...not sure what that means anyway lol. So judging by you logic; Summitt should have been replaced her last 5 yrs? Ok, enough said. I am thick and i don't get your logic
 
#67
#67
1CHATTVOL said:
I really admired this post and the way it addressed the multiple facets of the program. I do sometimes think that HW gets little credit for the many things she's done well thus far. Unless they won a NC, no one was going to win the "I'm Pat's Replacement" battle. Not sure folks heard Gary Blair's extended praise of HW. Any replacement coach would be be a gamble, just ask Vandy.

I do think ill-timed injuries of our best players have really dimmed our results. Izzy, Ariel, DD, Graves, Cooper, Carter. There are a couple of Final Fours and numerous regular season wins lost by those injuries. I know this is part of the game, but not every team is under the microscope like TN.

Because HW is ultimately loyal and had success, I would give more time. I've lived through the post-Fulmer years in TN football from a too-quick hook. Of course, this isn't our decision. Our role as fans is to support our team and coach.

Again, thank you so much for your level-headed analysis.
Click to expand...

+1000000! THIS! Holly would have been able to include a FF on her resume the year Izzy got hurt. No way we lose to Maryland that year with Izzy's scoring and Jasmine Jones's defense/rebounding. Briana Jones dominated that game.

The year before that, we lost Ariel, as she was having the best year of her career at UT. We could have, again, used Jasmine Jones's defense and rebounding in that game.

HELL last year Graves and Carter were playing with damn near broken hands and fingers in the Elite 8 game. We've had huge blows due to injuries, and it seems as if people tend to forget that piece of the puzzle.

I'm praying for a completely healthy year for UT for once! I know other teams have injuries but it seems as if we have a big one EVERY YEAR!
 
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#69
#69
Chitownvol1129 said:
Ivy league schools do not offer atheletic scholarships...parts of me are thick...not sure what that means anyway lol. So judging by you logic; Summitt should have been replaced her last 5 yrs? Ok, enough said. I am thick and i don't get your logic
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Also on the flip side, if she can get a non-scholly team ranked, think what she could do with the facilities, fan base, and scholarships available at UT.
 
#70
#70
creekdipper said:
Also on the flip side, if she can get a non-scholly team ranked, think what she could do with the facilities, fan base, and scholarships available at UT.
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Resources and expectations can be a double edged sword. Sometimes coaches thrive in low profile positions and but don't do under as well under the spotlight of a marquee program.
 
#71
#71
madtownvol said:
Resources and expectations can be a double edged sword. Sometimes coaches thrive in low profile positions and but don't do under as well under the spotlight of a marquee program.
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who is not equipped to run a marquee program. Who are we kidding? You hire a proven winning with winning personal qualities and that's all you can do. Of course there are no guarantees with a new coach--but that certainly should never stop a top program from making a change aimed at building a true contender again.
 
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#72
#72
armchair said:
who is not equipped to run a marquee program. Who are we kidding? You hire a proven winning with winning personal qualities and that's all you can do. Of course there are no guarantees with a new coach--but that certainly should never stop a top program from making a change aimed at building a true contender again.
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We got marquee players already. It shouldn't be that hard to run this thing.

Get that,
get consistency.

They just need that presence on staff.
The one that the girls, don't want to let down.

Winning is an attitude, not an accident...It is planned.
 
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