Harrison Bailey

[MemphisVol77]

The suggestion is this: Who cares if Nico is not any better?? He is the future! The future needs playing time to develop. I'll be absolutely amazed if we don't lose at least 3 more games with Milton at the helm. The games would be much more exciting for me personally in getting to witness the future develop regardless of the game outcome vs a 5th or 6th year senior who won't be back, and won't be taking us to the SEC championship or BCS.

We don't have to play for the SEC championship or better to make progress in our rebuild.

I care if Nico is not any better. I still want the highest bowl possible this year. If we're not in the CFP, I want a NY6. If we don't get those, I want the Citrus.

We aren't selling recruits on the Music City Bowl.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

It can be. But by and large it is less so than recruiting HS players.

Not if you go by percentages of the total amount of HS recruits vs guys in the portal.

 

[Raebo]

The suggestion is this: Who cares if Nico is not any better?? He is the future! The future needs playing time to develop. I'll be absolutely amazed if we don't lose at least 3 more games with Milton at the helm. The games would be much more exciting for me personally in getting to witness the future develop regardless of the game outcome vs a 5th or 6th year senior who won't be back, and won't be taking us to the SEC championship or BCS.

So you want to bench all the seniors for the rest of the year so the “future” can develop. Let’s do that starting with our game against BAMA. Great Idea (not).

 

[NighthawkVol]

Those of us who remember the 1998 National Championship remember that Tee Martin wasn’t really that great for most of that year. He was a below 50% passer until he had that record setting game with 23 straight completions against South Carolina (who lost 11 games that year). That game was Halloween weekend.

Tennessee beat Arkansas in spite of Tee. Tennessee beat Florida in spite of Tee. Tennessee beat Georgia in spite of Tee. And even against Syracuse, Tee was a below 50% passer, but did make a big scramble to set up the winning FG…but it was the run game that carried the offense that day and that season.

I’m not saying UT is going to win the NC. But Tee is revered because his team covered up his flaws. Joe is no worse than Tee was that year, at least up to comparable points in the season. And that’s not because Joe isn’t playing poorly. He is. We have to work around it, at least until he isn’t.

 

[KTrain]

Those of us who remember the 1998 National Championship remember that Tee Martin wasn’t really that great for most of that year. He was a below 50% passer until he had that record setting game with 23 straight completions against South Carolina (who lost 11 games that year). That game was Halloween weekend.

Tennessee beat Arkansas in spite of Tee. Tennessee beat Florida in spite of Tee. Tennessee beat Georgia in spite of Tee. And even against Syracuse, Tee was a below 50% passer, but did make a big scramble to set up the winning FG…but it was the run game that carried the offense that day and that season.

I’m not saying UT is going to win the NC. But Tee is revered because his team covered up his flaws. Joe is no worse than Tee was that year, at least up to comparable points in the season. And that’s not because Joe isn’t playing poorly. He is. We have to work around it, at least until he isn’t.

Yep, that Syracuse game was lost but we got a 4th down Pass Interference call to keep the last drive & game alive in the Carrier Dome. I could not believe it, I turned to my buddy and said you will never get a call like that on the road in SEC, because it was a PI but not that blatant IMO. Tee also made an incredible scramble run this game which was unusual because he was really not much of a runner. That was the 1st game of the 1998 year, it was hot in the Carrier Dome and my buddy said to me after the game, this is at best a 7 & 5 team we got lucky today. But the team was full of incredible finishes and a team of destiny. Nobody at that time thought that team would end up 13- 0 and National Champs.

 

[Orangeslice13]

Those of us who remember the 1998 National Championship remember that Tee Martin wasn’t really that great for most of that year. He was a below 50% passer until he had that record setting game with 23 straight completions against South Carolina (who lost 11 games that year). That game was Halloween weekend.

Tennessee beat Arkansas in spite of Tee. Tennessee beat Florida in spite of Tee. Tennessee beat Georgia in spite of Tee. And even against Syracuse, Tee was a below 50% passer, but did make a big scramble to set up the winning FG…but it was the run game that carried the offense that day and that season.

I’m not saying UT is going to win the NC. But Tee is revered because his team covered up his flaws. Joe is no worse than Tee was that year, at least up to comparable points in the season. And that’s not because Joe isn’t playing poorly. He is. We have to work around it, at least until he isn’t.

Vs Syracuse if we don’t get a bad PI call go our way late we lose that one

 

[Orangeslice13]

Yep, that Syracuse game was lost but we got a 4th down Pass Interference call to keep the last drive & game alive in the Carrier Dome. I could not believe it, I turned to my buddy and said you will never get a call like that on the road in SEC, because it was a PI but not that blatant IMO. Tee also made an incredible scramble run this game which was unusual because he was really not much of a runner. That was the 1st game of the 1998 year, it was hot in the Carrier Dome and my buddy said to me after the game, this is at best a 7 & 5 team we got lucky today. But the team was full of incredible finishes and a team of destiny. Nobody at that time thought that team would end up 13- 0 and National Champs.

I should have kept reading

 

[sjt18]

Not if you go by percentages of the total amount of HS recruits vs guys in the portal.

Huh?

You don't KNOW what you are getting with HS players. Their risks as college players have not been revealed. Their talent as CFB players has not been shown. You have a MUCH better idea about guys out of the portal. They usually have film you can watch against college level competition.

That doesn't mean all the guys entering the portal are guys top programs want. Most are not. Teams are already using the portal to cull guys they sign and then determine aren't going to develop into contributors. It doesn't behoove anyone for a coach or player to say publicly that the player has been asked to go portal. But it is happening. It has happened at UT.

 

[Daniel_Lincolns_Foot]

Does Coach Heupel owe us "evidence" for why he plays each starter? No.

We've had several missed plays in the defensive secondary, does Heupel owe us "seeing for ourselves" if other players are better? No.

Who here has even 1/10th of the time spent grading QBs as Heupel has for 20 years? I'm betting.....no one. Did he miss Hooker being better than Milton last year? Yes.

Did he coach Hooker up to nearly a Heisman? Yes. Did he coach Sam Bradford to a Heisman? Yes. Coach Heupel knows what he's doing and has the resume to back it up. I trust him, not you, to be able to " see evidence" about how good QBs are.

This has been stated a lot on these boards, but I don't think it's the case. Players are evaluated in the offseason and during camp. Milton won the QB competition--it happens on every team. He didn't miss Hooker being better. He used the criteria that almost every coach uses, and Milton showed more promise. No coach is going to say "Player A performed better in camp, but Player B might be better and I could have this wrong, so I'm going with Player B."

Milton only got 2 starts in 2021 before losing the starting job. Now, he did go out with an injury, but there's no telling how long he would have made it as a starter before CJH switched over to Hooker. If CJH really still thought Milton was better, he would have gotten his starting role back.

Joe Burrow played behind JT Barrett at Ohio State. Knowing what we know about Joe Burrow NOW, was Urban Meyer incorrect in his off-season/pre-season evaluation THEN? They went 12-2 and won the Cotton Bowl. So....no. But, Joe Burrow! Look what he did at LSU! Still no.

These hindsight evaluations are dishonest at best, but more often than not straight up wrong.

 

[JHuntVols]

You know, I've got some twists on our counter runs. I think Heupel should implement my ideas about the plays in a game because there's no way he could tell if they're good unless he runs them in a game. Practice is no good and his take on my plays may not be good........ He should run my plays in a game to "let me see for myself" how they do.

This is how you sound.

Now you're trying to equivocate creating plays vs. criticizing a QB based on easy understood ideas of "QB needs to be accurate to be good. Our QB is not accurate. Therefore QB not good." Man you're reaching here. Also, if you did actually post on this forum and do a legitimate breakdown on counter run plays with the same depth and detail as is done by the coaching staff, then you'd impress me personally. Also, what do you think of former coaches or players who criticize coaching decisions or player performance? Can they be immediately dismissed too, because they haven't been at practice to see every single drill for every single player? Otherwise, you're going to have a hard time reconciling "coach knows best" when there's two coaches saying opposite things.

 

[JHuntVols]

Those of us who remember the 1998 National Championship remember that Tee Martin wasn’t really that great for most of that year. He was a below 50% passer until he had that record setting game with 23 straight completions against South Carolina (who lost 11 games that year). That game was Halloween weekend.

Tennessee beat Arkansas in spite of Tee. Tennessee beat Florida in spite of Tee. Tennessee beat Georgia in spite of Tee. And even against Syracuse, Tee was a below 50% passer, but did make a big scramble to set up the winning FG…but it was the run game that carried the offense that day and that season.

I’m not saying UT is going to win the NC. But Tee is revered because his team covered up his flaws. Joe is no worse than Tee was that year, at least up to comparable points in the season. And that’s not because Joe isn’t playing poorly. He is. We have to work around it, at least until he isn’t.

Out of curiosity, do you think Tee deserves the bulk of the credit for the team's success that year? I.e., do you look at the team's record that year and say, "Idk bro... the dude is a winner, so I don't care if he throws for 100 yards".

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

This has been stated a lot on these boards, but I don't think it's the case. Players are evaluated in the offseason and during camp. Milton won the QB competition--it happens on every team. He didn't miss Hooker being better. He used the criteria that almost every coach uses, and Milton showed more promise. No coach is going to say "Player A performed better in camp, but Player B might be better and I could have this wrong, so I'm going with Player B."

Milton only got 2 starts in 2021 before losing the starting job. Now, he did go out with an injury, but there's no telling how long he would have made it as a starter before CJH switched over to Hooker. If CJH really still thought Milton was better, he would have gotten his starting role back.

Joe Burrow played behind JT Barrett at Ohio State. Knowing what we know about Joe Burrow NOW, was Urban Meyer incorrect in his off-season/pre-season evaluation THEN? They went 12-2 and won the Cotton Bowl. So....no. But, Joe Burrow! Look what he did at LSU! Still no.

These hindsight evaluations are dishonest at best, but more often than not straight up wrong.

I totally agree. The narrative by the Milton haters here is "Heupel started Milton ahead of Hooker and Hooker was better so Nico is better than Milton too." I don't buy it, even though Hooker DID have an incredible run after he took over.

It's not predictable. It's not how good coaches operate. You're correct: evaluate the talent and choose and it's an ongoing process. SHOULD Nico improve to the point where he beats out Joe in practice, he'll have earned the start.

The idea that "He should start Nico and see what he's got" is just 'Hooker hangover.' Some TN fans think every TN QB should be like Hendon Hooker from now on. That's going to lead to a lot of disappointment for them and, as we've seen, a lot of bitching about the starting QB who isn't a Hooker clone.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Now you're trying to equivocate creating plays vs. criticizing a QB based on easy understood ideas of "QB needs to be accurate to be good. Our QB is not accurate. Therefore QB not good." Man you're reaching here. Also, if you did actually post on this forum and do a legitimate breakdown on counter run plays with the same depth and detail as is done by the coaching staff, then you'd impress me personally. Also, what do you think of former coaches or players who criticize coaching decisions or player performance? Can they be immediately dismissed too, because they haven't been at practice to see every single drill for every single player? Otherwise, you're going to have a hard time reconciling "coach knows best" when there's two coaches saying opposite things.

The only voice that matters, the bottom line at UT, "The Decider" is Coach Josh Heupel.

He has a resume of being damn good with QBs. He didn't fall off a truck in Knoxville and into the head coach position. Please look at his history both as a player and a coach, primarily of QBs.

If he's not qualified to make that decision, we're seriously seriously screwed. Coaching QBs and evaluating QBs is what he's done. Could he be wrong? Sure.

The odds are better that you're wrong, however, unless you want to compare your resume with Josh Heupel's resume when it comes to QBs and convince me otherwise.

He's doing EXACTLY what a coach should do: evaluating his talent, picking his starters, creating an offensive scheme to maximize the talents of those players, and coaching them to maximize their particular skills so we win.

It's not a "hey, I'll try this guy just in case...." situation. HE'S LOOKED AT HIS QBs A LOT. He knows what he's doing. Again, check his resume.

 

[NomadVol]

Well, if you start Nico over Milton, he's done. He's been pulled at Michigan and this would be twice at UT that he's lost the starter job. He's going to check out and I don't blame him.

He's quite popular in the locker room. The loss of him as a leader and his disappointment and his embarrassment for getting pulled for a true freshman would be quite a hit for anyone.

So what if Nico really is no better...... you know like our coaches have said, "Nico can't execute the offense any better than Joe."

At that point you're stuck riding the freshman for better or worse and if he gets hurt, you're down to Gaston Moore.

If Gaston Moore was an SEC caliber starter, he'd have hit the transfer portal again long ago to get a chance to start and play. He knew that was never happening at UT.

So yes, the only upside is: Nico completely balls out much better than Milton. That's unlikely. The risk is not worth it.

I don't understand this opinion is the sense of the other side is not well understood.

Didn't Saban give 2 QBs a shot before sticking with Milroe.
Every player is different but let's not act like great coaches don't try different QBs in season.
To not try and confirm and prove to your team that no one is untouchable in regards to reaching a set standard is worse.
They literally played like crap without Milroe but the staff had to know for sure and I think they owed it to the team to confirm and bring unity.

Now the gap between starter and backup is the question but because people say "try the back up" is not some idiot fanatic thought process only.
Bama did it by benching Hurts. He was like 20-2. In the National title game. He came back and won a big game and then went back to the bench. Yes he transferred but both Hurts and Bama fans still claim each other.

Maybe because it's Bama week, I know when they have done it. Greatness requires sometimes challenging folk to get better and losing your role can be apart of it.

Perspective matters.

Go Milton
Go Vols

 

[volfan102455]

Those of us who remember the 1998 National Championship remember that Tee Martin wasn’t really that great for most of that year. He was a below 50% passer until he had that record setting game with 23 straight completions against South Carolina (who lost 11 games that year). That game was Halloween weekend.

Tennessee beat Arkansas in spite of Tee. Tennessee beat Florida in spite of Tee. Tennessee beat Georgia in spite of Tee. And even against Syracuse, Tee was a below 50% passer, but did make a big scramble to set up the winning FG…but it was the run game that carried the offense that day and that season.

I’m not saying UT is going to win the NC. But Tee is revered because his team covered up his flaws. Joe is no worse than Tee was that year, at least up to comparable points in the season. And that’s not because Joe isn’t playing poorly. He is. We have to work around it, at least until he isn’t.

Probably good that the internet was very young in those days. There would have been major meltdowns on this board every week!

 

[Daniel_Lincolns_Foot]

I don't understand this opinion is the sense of the other side is not well understood.

Didn't Saban give 2 QBs a shot before sticking with Milroe.
Every player is different but let's not act like great coaches don't try different QBs in season.
To not try and confirm and prove to your team that no one is untouchable in regards to reaching a set standard is worse.
They literally played like crap without Milroe but the staff had to know for sure and I think they owed it to the team to confirm and bring unity.

Now the gap between starter and backup is the question but because people say "try the back up" is not some idiot fanatic thought process only.
Bama did it by benching Hurts. He was like 20-2. In the National title game. He came back and won a big game and then went back to the bench. Yes he transferred but both Hurts and Bama fans still claim each other.

Maybe because it's Bama week, I know when they have done it. Greatness requires sometimes challenging folk to get better and losing your role can be apart of it.

Perspective matters.

Go Milton
Go Vols

Saban benched Hurts in literally the last game of the season. A pull out all stops situation--kind of like how starters need to be ready to pitch back to back days in the MLB playoffs, since there is no tomorrow.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

I don't understand this opinion is the sense of the other side is not well understood.

Didn't Saban give 2 QBs a shot before sticking with Milroe.
Every player is different but let's not act like great coaches don't try different QBs in season.
To not try and confirm and prove to your team that no one is untouchable in regards to reaching a set standard is worse.
They literally played like crap without Milroe but the staff had to know for sure and I think they owed it to the team to confirm and bring unity.

Now the gap between starter and backup is the question but because people say "try the back up" is not some idiot fanatic thought process only.
Bama did it by benching Hurts. He was like 20-2. In the National title game. He came back and won a big game and then went back to the bench. Yes he transferred but both Hurts and Bama fans still claim each other.

Maybe because it's Bama week, I know when they have done it. Greatness requires sometimes challenging folk to get better and losing your role can be apart of it.

Perspective matters.

Go Milton
Go Vols

The very last thing Nick Saban did when he pulled Milroe was "just have a look at these guys" or "show the fans that they're not better."

If Nick Saban and Josh Heupel need to "try out every player in a real game to make sure" then they aren't very good coaches. Since when has that been the norm for a coach?

It's like everyone here has forgotten YEARS and YEARS of coaches having camp, evaluating players, getting the "1s and 2s and others" into groups and practicing. Sure, guys prove themselves and move up in the depth chart or they don't and drop down. THAT'S HOW COACHING WORKS!

Since when has it been good coaching to "need to give this guy some game reps to see if he's better than my starter?" Coaches are not paid to guess at who to start by playing everybody in games. When the heck did that idea start????

 

[NomadVol]

The very last thing Nick Saban did when he pulled Milroe was "just have a look at these guys" or "show the fans that they're not better."

If Nick Saban and Josh Heupel need to "try out every player in a real game to make sure" then they aren't very good coaches. Since when has that been the norm for a coach?

It's like everyone here has forgotten YEARS and YEARS of coaches having camp, evaluating players, getting the "1s and 2s and others" into groups and practicing. Sure, guys prove themselves and move up in the depth chart or they don't and drop down. THAT'S HOW COACHING WORKS!

Since when has it been good coaching to "need to give this guy some game reps to see if he's better than my starter?" Coaches are not paid to guess at who to start by playing everybody in games. When the heck did that idea start????

First off, I didn't mention the fans. And he benched him for his play after a loss. Period, you are really reaching with the evaluation blah blah blah.
It was due to his play. Coaches play the best players. That's their commitment. And to answer when is it it good coaching.... Both Fulmer, Spurrier and Saban have played multiple QBs.
Again perspective is needed.

Stop with the selective memory crap. The greats have had to change QBs. It's not out of the ordinary.

 

[GetYouSomeofThat]

Not miserable. Just speculating.

And it could also be a portal guy like Hooker.

Hooker like players are the exception. See JM as a reference

 

[sjt18]

This has been stated a lot on these boards, but I don't think it's the case. Players are evaluated in the offseason and during camp. Milton won the QB competition--it happens on every team. He didn't miss Hooker being better. He used the criteria that almost every coach uses, and Milton showed more promise. No coach is going to say "Player A performed better in camp, but Player B might be better and I could have this wrong, so I'm going with Player B."

Milton only got 2 starts in 2021 before losing the starting job. Now, he did go out with an injury, but there's no telling how long he would have made it as a starter before CJH switched over to Hooker. If CJH really still thought Milton was better, he would have gotten his starting role back.

Joe Burrow played behind JT Barrett at Ohio State. Knowing what we know about Joe Burrow NOW, was Urban Meyer incorrect in his off-season/pre-season evaluation THEN? They went 12-2 and won the Cotton Bowl. So....no. But, Joe Burrow! Look what he did at LSU! Still no.

These hindsight evaluations are dishonest at best, but more often than not straight up wrong.

One of the best posts I've seen recently. Good job.

 

[NomadVol]

Saban benched Hurts in literally the last game of the season. A pull out all stops situation--kind of like how starters need to be ready to pitch back to back days in the MLB playoffs, since there is no tomorrow.

That is not what Saban said was his reasoning. He said he needed better QB play surrounding passing. It was a spark due to low performance.
He literally PUT A FRESHMAN IN DURING THE 2nd half of a Title game.

A FRESHMAN

"Saban explained his decision to bench Hurts for Tagovailoa, saying the offense needed a spark, which the freshman could provide with his passing acuity."


So just stop it. That analogy is both weak and flat out false.

AGAIN
GO MILTON
GO VOLS

 

[TNStudMuffin]

Our coaching staff has said we don't have a QB who can execute the offense any better than Joe.

That's about as concerning as them not realizing there is someone better.

 

[PEPPERJAX]

IF GOOD ole Hairston Baileaf wert steel own da hill hed a won at UF and put Joe Miltoun on da bench!

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

First off, I didn't mention the fans. And he benched him for his play after a loss. Period, you are really reaching with the evaluation blah blah blah.
It was due to his play. Coaches play the best players. That's their commitment. And to answer when is it it good coaching.... Both Fulmer, Spurrier and Saban have played multiple QBs.
Again perspective is needed.

Stop with the selective memory crap. The greats have had to change QBs. It's not out of the ordinary.

Sure they have. As I said, they evaluate, they separate, then people earn their way up and down the depth chart. As you say, the job is to play the players that give you the best chance to win.

Saban pulled Hurts because, in his own words, "I knew we were going to need to pass to win that game and I felt Tua could get that done better than Jalen." He replaced Milroe because he thought the others could do the job Milroe didn't. Period. He wasn't just "trying them out to see what he's got."

The reason coaches play different QBs in non-mop up/blowout situations is to win ballgames, not because they "need to get a look at what kind of talent they have."

Bad coaches might do that. Good coaches evaluate football talent without "well, I'll put that guy in and see if he's a gamer or not."

 

[sjt18]

Hooker like players are the exception. See JM as a reference

I'm not sure that's true. I believe once Heupel gets into a healthy cycle with QBs... we will see more Hooker like guys and fewer JM types.

I am not and have not argued for a QB change. I'm not sure that's in the best interest of this team or the future of the program. But I fully believe that Nico will produce a lot more like Hooker than Milton.

Hopefully in his 2nd yr starting a competition will shape up between Merklinger and McIntyre (or the '25 signee). You could see a portal guy jump in there too.