Hard nosed, intelligent, political discussion

#251
#251
Honestly, I don't think politics is any worse than it ever has been. It's just that the internet and 24 hour news shines a light on it constantly.
 
#252
#252
true volunteer cnn is liberal, i also watch fox news they are more for republicans. i see eye to eye alittle more with lou dobbs on cnn because he questions congress and the president more. fox news always seem to interview our vice president, i wish they had more senators, congress, and govenors on. i like to get everybody's perspective.
 
#254
#254
(therealUT @ Apr 2 said:
Come on now, you might be confusing people on this board with that sentence. Libertarians are conservative, much more conservative than Republicans.

The Green Party is to the Democratic Party as the Libertarian Party is to the Republican Party.
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Untrue. The Green Party drives the dems, and gives them talking points. Libertarians are typically economically conservative (most are flat tax people which neither the dems or the republicans will ever concede to) and socially very liberal.
 
#255
#255
(Lexvol @ Apr 2 said:
Untrue. The Green Party drives the dems, and gives them talking points. Libertarians are typically economically conservative (most are flat tax people which neither the dems or the republicans will ever concede to) and socially very liberal.
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They are the most constitutionally conservative political party in America, followed by the Republicans. The Green Party is the most constitutionally liberal party in America followed by the Democrats.
 
#256
#256
(vols2345 @ Apr 2 said:
People didnt really start freaking out intill our fellow countrymen starting dieing in war. yeah its a shame, but come on, they are part of the united states military, if your scared to die or dont want to be in that position, its not like anyone forced you to join.
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Hopefully, if you have any family that is serving and they get killed a friend will come up to you and say, "Hey, sorry about your family member getting killed....that's a shame but it is his fault since he signed up"

Not sure I follow this train of thought

We sign up and are very proud to be doing what we are being told to do. But everyone is scared of dying. That is only natural. Anyone who says other is lying.
 
#257
#257
(U-T @ Apr 2 said:
Hopefully, if you have any family that is serving and they get killed a friend will come up to you and say, "Hey, sorry about your family member getting killed....that's a shame but it is his fault since he signed up"
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I am a soldier, so is my brother, and most all of my friends. We take that risk when we join, and what I hate to hear more than anything, is "Bring our boys home" being shouted by some protestor who might know one soldier over there.
 
#258
#258
(therealUT @ Apr 2 said:
I am a soldier, so is my brother, and most all of my friends. We take that risk when we join, and what I hate to hear more than anything, is "Bring our boys home" being shouted by some protestor who might know one soldier over there.
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Yes, and I have done two tours in Iraq myself and laugh at those shouting, "Invade <country A>" because they look at our men as pawns who can go anywhere without looking at the actually human aspect of the war.

If I have to hear one more snot-nose 18-year-old preach about invading Iran and than saying "But, I don&#39;t want to join the Marines, Army, Navy, ext..." I may puke.

If people want to invade every country, sign your ass up and join us. Hell, give me your kids and I will gladly teach them.

It&#39;s typical American attitude...want something without giving anything.
 
#259
#259
ok maybe i worded it the wrong way.. for that Im sorry. See I am joining some branch of the military when i graduate, and I know the risk i take when joining the military. that is what I am getting to. when everyone signs up they know what could happen, and i hate it when protesters think they know what is the best for everyone. they really know nothing, shoot i dont know nothing.
 
#263
#263
i was thinking air force or national guard. marines... well only if i get to scream hhoo rraa every other second.. haha jk but really its either air force or national guard.
 
#264
#264
(vols2345 &#064; Apr 2 said:
i was thinking air force or national guard. marines... well only if i get to scream hhoo rraa every other second.. haha jk but really its either air force or national guard.
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Join me in the Marines
 
#265
#265
Either get with an Infantry unit in the Army or any unit in the Marines. It&#39;s a lot more work and a lot tougher times, but, no guts no glory.
 
#266
#266
(U&#045;T &#064; Apr 2 said:
Yes, and I have done two tours in Iraq myself and laugh at those shouting, "Invade <country A>" because they look at our men as pawns who can go anywhere without looking at the actually human aspect of the war.

If I have to hear one more snot-nose 18-year-old preach about invading Iran and than saying "But, I don&#39;t want to join the Marines, Army, Navy, ext..." I may puke.

If people want to invade every country, sign your ass up and join us. Hell, give me your kids and I will gladly teach them.

It&#39;s typical American attitude...want something without giving anything.
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Yeah I agree. I read where someone once said, if all the politicians who wanted war were actually the ones who were required to be on the front lines fighting it, there would never be any wars.
 
#267
#267
(oklavol &#064; Apr 2 said:
Yeah I agree. I read where someone once said, if all the politicians who wanted war were actually the ones who were required to be on the front lines fighting it, there would never be any wars.
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Where did you read that? Until very recently, most politicos throughout history saw extensive combat; on the front lines nonetheless.
 
#268
#268
U-T you might like to read this website. Its a list of who in congress actually served in the military and in what capacity. Its has a very liberal, democratic bent and was created obviously by a democrat, but I think most of the info on the politicians it presents is accurate.

http://www.awolbush.com/whoserved.html

 
#269
#269
(therealUT &#064; Apr 2 said:
Where did you read that? Until very recently, most politicos throughout history saw extensive combat; on the front lines nonetheless.
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Not really. If you read the info presented here,

http://www.awolbush.com/whoserved.html

many of the biggest war hawks in congress and politics never served. For example, Cheney had 4 deferments in vietnam I think. He probably was the biggest war hawk in Bush&#39;s cabinet. While Colin Powell, who actually served in Vietnam, was against it. I think Powell had reservations for good reasons.

Bush Sr. avoided invading Iraq, everyone can now see why, and why it was a wise move. He also was a decorated fighter pilot in WWII. It just seems to me, that politicians who actually experienced war are less likely to use it, unless it is absolutely necessary.

Almost everyone was in favor of the war in afghanistan, but the Iraq war doesnt seem justified, especially in light of what we know now. Iran is a bigger threat then Iraq for weapons of mass destruction. This country doesn&#39;t have unlimited economic resources. The debt this war has created is not worth what we have gained IMO.
 
#270
#270
(oklavol &#064; Apr 2 said:
Yeah I agree. I read where someone once said, if all the politicians who wanted war were actually the ones who were required to be on the front lines fighting it, there would never be any wars.
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I am not even mad at any politicians.

I am just more and more annoyed at many in this country who want everything but don&#39;t want to work for it.

Nothing irks me or my men hearing these little Pro-War punks who keep shouting for war yet really don&#39;t have any idea the true aspects of what it entails. To this day, I wish I could throw these kids into Baghdad and tell them to snuff out Building A for men looking to kill them. Imagine walking down streets with a loaded weapon looking for men who will do anything to kill you. I wish the real aspect of this war could be seen by everyone so they know EXACTLY what it is like.

If people in this country expect us to invade Iran, you better be prepared for a draft.

I have no idea what the exact numbers are in terms of recruitment for all branches of the service but I can attest to lines being very thin at many points in the last 2 years throughout Iraq.

I see not a chance in HELL of our men being able to invade another country right now and all men who I work for agree to that train of thought.

So much in the media is spun to the right or left wing. It is so hard to get a true aspect on the war.

The truth about Iraq is in between.
 
#271
#271
(oklavol &#064; Apr 2 said:
Not really. If you read the info presented here,

http://www.awolbush.com/whoserved.html

most of the biggest war hawks in congress and politics never served. For example, Cheney had 4 deferments in vietnam I think. He was probably the biggest war hawk in Bush&#39;s cabinet. While Colin Powell who actually served in Vietnam was against it. I think Powell had reservations for good reasons.

Bush Sr. avoided invading Iraq, now everyone can see why he did that, and why it was a wise move. He aslo was a decorated fighter pilot WWII. It just seems to me, that politicians who actually experienced war are much less likely to use it, unless it is absolutely necessary.

Everyone was in favor with the war in afghanistan, but the Iraq war doesnt seem justified, especially in light of what we know now. Iran is a bigger threat then Iraq for weapsons of mass destruction. This country doesn&#39;t have unlimited economic might. The debt this war has created is not worth the cost IMO.
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I said until recently, which in the whole history of the world means basically up to the last quarter century.

Also, Bush Sr. avoided invading Iraq only because on the strategic level we failed in the Persian Gulf War. Tactically and operationally, our forces were outstanding, however, the strategic plan was to eliminate upwards of 70% of the Iraqi Army and then push Iraqi&#39;s to rebel against an force that would not be able to stave off the rebellion. We were only able to cripple about 30% of the Iraqi military and the rebellion was very brutally taken care of.

Also, in this century alone, Teddy Roosevelt, Churchill, Eisenhower, and JFK all saw extensive combat, and all led their countries into long drawn out and savage wars...each one much costlier than OIF and OEF combined.
 
#272
#272
(therealUT &#064; Apr 2 said:
I said until recently, which in the whole history of the world means basically up to the last quarter century.

Also, Bush Sr. avoided invading Iraq only because on the strategic level we failed in the Persian Gulf War. Tactically and operationally, our forces were outstanding, however, the strategic plan was to eliminate upwards of 70% of the Iraqi Army and then push Iraqi&#39;s to rebel against an force that would not be able to stave off the rebellion. We were only able to cripple about 30% of the Iraqi military and the rebellion was very brutally taken care of.

Also, in this century alone, Teddy Roosevelt, Churchill, Eisenhower, and JFK all saw extensive combat, and all led their countries into long drawn out and savage wars...each one much costlier than OIF and OEF combined.
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I see your point. Like George Washington, Grant, etc yes they did get elected for what they had did during a time of war. I really was referring to the Iraq/Afghan War, thats the only one I had info on.
 
#275
#275
Why am I a conservative republican you might ask? Because of the things I believe in, family, the bible, God, (it is these things that got W elected again) freedom....Ahhhh Freedom. To do what I want, say what I want, have my own opinion, own a gun, same as all of you. Other things I believe need to happen...the need for smaller government, less handouts and more accountability....responsible men and women to create families and procreate....I&#39;m not just talking about black males and females having babies out of wedlock, I&#39;m also referring to middle and upper class white americans not being able to keep a marriage together because of distractions.

I believe there are a set of moral standards, dictated by the ten commandments, not moral relativism, in other words, do what feels right regardless of the consequences. Are there hypocrites in the Republican party&#39;s leadership? I don&#39;t know, I&#39;m sure there are, regardless, the Republicans are and have been in power because many who believe in the same things I do, voted them there.

Now, what do YOU believe in and why?

After reading the following article from "The Nation" (a liberal publication) , I wonder if liberals and democrats in general REALLY think what this article says, obviously this author does. I sure hope not because a socialist state will do nothing but destroy America.

The Nation ...socialism article.

 
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