Gun control debate (merged)

[luthervol]

they are already buying the guns illegally. in fact that very problem is why they are buying the guns illegally, because they legally can't get the guns they want.

??????????? Who is already buying guns illegally and how so?

 

[Vol8188]

minimum wage.
The purpose of the minimum wage was to stabilize the post-depression economy and protect the workers in the labor force. The minimum wage was designed to create a minimum standard of living to protect the health and well-being of employees. Others have argued that the primary purpose was to aid the lowest paid of the nation's working population, those who lacked sufficient bargaining power to secure for themselves a minimum subsistence wage. FLSA specifically provided for a minimum wage for full time and part time, public and private sector workers. Specifically, workers who are “engaged in” or “in the production of goods for” interstate (commerce between the states) and foreign commerce.

Are you just going to keep saying the same thing over and over?

The Davis bacon act was the first form of federal minimum wage and was openly racially motivated. Just like the racially motivated minimum wage laws in Canada and Australia. What part of that do you disagree with?

 

[Vol8188]

My positions aren't related to assault weapons, I guess you have me confused with someone else, my two main recommendations have been x rounds in y time, and x purchases in y time - neither directly tied to assault weapons. Fail

In the first post you specifically claim people should not be allowed to own assault weapons. You also say they should be able to own a gun for “protection”.

Then contradict yourself again by saying we should ban all guns or at least the ones “designed to kill people”, basically all guns, especially the ones used for “protection”, unless you meant “I’m okay with you owning a gun for protection from a very small bird or mammal”





You’re right. You just want to ban all guns.

 

[luthervol]

Are you just going to keep saying the same thing over and over?

The Davis bacon act was the first form of federal minimum wage and was openly racially motivated. Just like the racially motivated minimum wage laws in Canada and Australia. What part of that do you disagree with?

Are you? The act wasn't racially motivated, it was economically motivated. It just so happened to be that many of the nations poorest willing to work for basically slave wages were black.
It and Canada's act basically eliminated slave legal slave labor.

 

[hog88]

It sounds as if what they are already doing is working to a degree, limiting the amount that can be purchased by each straw buyer would reduce the ease and amount of flow even more.
https://thehill.com/homenews/3521571-what-is-straw-purchasing-a-gun/

Your link doesn’t back up your clownish post.

 

[Vol8188]

Are you? The act wasn't racially motivated, it was economically motivated. It just so happened to be that many of the nations poorest willing to work for basically slave wages were black.
It and Canada's act basically eliminated slave legal slave labor.

You realize there’s actual senate record of this right? Yes, the Davis bacon act was very openly racially motivated.

Lmfao only you would argue that black people are better off unemployed than working for less than the amount you deem fit.

 

[luthervol]

You realize there’s actual senate record of this right? Yes, the Davis bacon act was very openly racially motivated.

Lmfao only you would argue that black people are better off unemployed than working for less than the amount you deem fit.

It was economically motivated, not racially motivate. Same with the minimum wage act that went into effect 8 years later.

 

[Vol8188]

It was economically motivated, not racially motivate. Same with the minimum wage act that went into effect 8 years later.

It was very openly about black labor. It required businesses pay local union journeyman wages. Local unions banned black labor from joining.

 

[Vol8188]

My positions aren't related to assault weapons, I guess you have me confused with someone else, my two main recommendations have been x rounds in y time, and x purchases in y time - neither directly tied to assault weapons. Fail

You never responded to your outright lie here. I directly quoted you saying people should not be able to own “assault weapons”.

On top of that you’ve not responded to your contradictory claims that you are okay with “owning a gun for protection” while also saying guns should be banned that are intended to kill people. Wtf do you think people need protection from?

 

[sonofUT62]

It's ludicrous to think government will outsmart organized crime.

It’s ludicrous to think that government isn’t subsidizing elements of organized crime.

 

[C-south]

yup, I was just going off what the ATF would openly admit; while hopefully letting him come to the rational and reasonable conclusion that trusting the government to efficiently process the paperwork was a fools hope.

The director said those that didn’t know of the new brace rule wouldn’t be charged as there was no intent to break the new law. There is also a zero tolerance policy.

 

[C-south]

Pretty sure I have never used the "at least they are doing something' angle. Fail
My positions aren't related to assault weapons, I guess you have me confused with someone else, my two main recommendations have been x rounds in y time, and x purchases in y time - neither directly tied to assault weapons. Fail
I've never once claimed guns were the leading cause nor shied away from any discussion about the leading causes. Fail
There is no racism in my proposed gun laws, so nothing to hide from. Fail
I do believe people should be held legally responsible for reporting gun thefts and liable if they do not. Pass

As usual your position is dumb. You’re not going to dictate fire rate of a semiautomatic weapon. You’re idiotic way to do it by taking 9 people and going by their average rpm is also dumb.

 

[Vol8188]

As usual your position is dumb. You’re not going to dictate fire rate of a semiautomatic weapon. You’re idiotic way to do it by taking 9 people and going by their average rpm is also dumb.

It’s his way of saying “ban them all” without saying “ban them all” because we’ve told him they’re all going to fire at almost the exact same rate and that semiautomatics make up the vast majority of all guns on the market

 

[hog88]

It’s ludicrous to think that government isn’t subsidizing elements of organized crime.

Agreed

 

[Vol8188]

It’s ludicrous to think that government isn’t subsidizing elements of organized crime.

Every ban (guns, narcotics, prostitution, etc) is an indirect subsidy.

 

[LouderVol]

??????????? Who is already buying guns illegally and how so?

straw buyers. There is already a law in place that says straw purchases are illegal. and according to hog there is already a limit on how many can be bought at one time.

If you come out and change the max number of purchases from 3 to 2, you aren't really changing the numbers too much. If they want 6 guns, they now need 3 buyers for 2 guns apiece, instead of the 2 buyers for 3 guns apiece. And yes the number is probably not 3, but the math stays pretty much the same at 30 or 300 or 50. Its simple math to ensure they can get the same number of guns, no matter what the laws say.

all you are doing is making it more difficult for the people who are legally buying it, and not doing anything illegal with them, which is why its an infringement.

its like drugs. The very item being illegal didn't change overall availability. Making it a higher level crime to have a certain amount of that illegal drug, also did nothing to change the overall availability.

again all you are doing is ensuring that more and more innocent people are caught by your web, and that nothing actually changes for the bad guys.

 

[LouderVol]

The director said those that didn’t know of the new brace rule wouldn’t be charged as there was no intent to break the new law. There is also a zero tolerance policy.

yup, they continue to use vague, contradictory terms and phrases, to ensure they can grab as much as they can.

 

[hog88]

straw buyers. There is already a law in place that says straw purchases are illegal. and according to hog there is already a limit on how many can be bought at one time.

If you come out and change the max number of purchases from 3 to 2, you aren't really changing the numbers too much. If they want 6 guns, they now need 3 buyers for 2 guns apiece, instead of the 2 buyers for 3 guns apiece. And yes the number is probably not 3, but the math stays pretty much the same at 30 or 300 or 50. Its simple math to ensure they can get the same number of guns, no matter what the laws say.

all you are doing is making it more difficult for the people who are legally buying it, and not doing anything illegal with them, which is why its an infringement.

its like drugs. The very item being illegal didn't change overall availability. Making it a higher level crime to have a certain amount of that illegal drug, also did nothing to change the overall availability.

again all you are doing is ensuring that more and more innocent people are caught by your web, and that nothing actually changes for the bad guys.

He don't care because his true goal in a total ban.

 

[Vol8188]

He don't care because his true goal in a total ban.

“Of course you should be able to own a gun to protect yourself”

Same guy

“We should ban guns that are designed to kill people”

 

[hog88]

“Of course you should be able to own a gun to protect yourself”

Same guy

“We should ban guns that are designed to kill people”

I would respect him if he was just honest but that's not in his nature.

 

[luthervol]

It was very openly about black labor. It required businesses pay local union journeyman wages. Local unions banned black labor from joining.

The guy from GA sure sounded like a racist idiot......but it was about economics much more than race. What you are proving is that overall, black people would work for much lower wages than white people and many employers were too racists to employ and pay them equally. And again, this predates the minimum wage law by 8 years - during which time there was a worldwide great depression.

Fair Labor Standards Act of 1938: Maximum Struggle for a Minimum Wage
In its final form, the act applied to industries whose combined employment represented only about one-fifth of the labor force. In these industries, it banned oppressive child labor and set the minimum hourly wage at 25 cents, and the maximum workweek at 44 hours.

While President Franklin Roosevelt was in Bedford, Mass., campaigning for reelection, a young girl tried to pass him an envelope. But a policeman threw her back into the crowd. Roosevelt told an aide, "Get the note from the girl." Her note read,

I wish you could do something to help us girls....We have been working in a sewing factory,... and up to a few months ago we were getting our minimum pay of $11 a week... Today the 200 of us girls have been cut down to $4 and $5 and $6 a week.​

To a reporter's question, the President replied, "Something has to be done about the elimination of child labor and long hours and starvation wages."

Sorry, but you're going to have to attempt your "racist minimum wage" BS elsewhere.

 

[Vol8188]

The guy from GA sure sounded like a racist idiot......but it was about economics much more than race. What you are proving is that overall, black people would work for much lower wages than white people and many employers were too racists to employ and pay them equally. And again, this predates the minimum wage law by 8 years - during which time there was a worldwide great depression.

Fair Labor Standards Act of 1938: Maximum Struggle for a Minimum Wage
In its final form, the act applied to industries whose combined employment represented only about one-fifth of the labor force. In these industries, it banned oppressive child labor and set the minimum hourly wage at 25 cents, and the maximum workweek at 44 hours.

While President Franklin Roosevelt was in Bedford, Mass., campaigning for reelection, a young girl tried to pass him an envelope. But a policeman threw her back into the crowd. Roosevelt told an aide, "Get the note from the girl." Her note read,

I wish you could do something to help us girls....We have been working in a sewing factory,... and up to a few months ago we were getting our minimum pay of $11 a week... Today the 200 of us girls have been cut down to $4 and $5 and $6 a week.​

To a reporter's question, the President replied, "Something has to be done about the elimination of child labor and long hours and starvation wages."

Sorry, but you're going to have to attempt your "racist minimum wage" BS elsewhere.

If businesses were too racist to pay black men the same and the law set a minimum wage, what do you think that did to black men….obviously they ended up unemployed.

Which was the intent of the law. To protect white labor

 

[CobbVol]

He don't care because his true goal in a total ban.

 

[luthervol]

You never responded to your outright lie here. I directly quoted you saying people should not be able to own “assault weapons”.

On top of that you’ve not responded to your contradictory claims that you are okay with “owning a gun for protection” while also saying guns should be banned that are intended to kill people. Wtf do you think people need protection from?

Here is my quote:
"If a gun was designed specifically to kill PEOPLE, ban it.
Are you claiming all guns are designed specifically to kill PEOPLE?
Careful, because if you are, you are going to blow the gun nut's ludicrous "ban knives, swimming pools, rocks, and cars" nonsense all to hell........because none of those things are designed to specifically kill PEOPLE. That's not the intended use.
Now military style weapons (AR's and such) have a reason to be designed specifically to kill PEOPLE.

 

[luthervol]

As usual your position is dumb. You’re not going to dictate fire rate of a semiautomatic weapon. You’re idiotic way to do it by taking 9 people and going by their average rpm is also dumb.

That wasn't my way to do it, that was my way to measure it. Think.