Gun control debate (merged)

#25,128
#25,128
lawgator1 said:
Unfortunately many what you term law abiding citizens have proven that they cannot be trusted with that responsibility because they failed to take reasonable steps to keep their guns safe and in their sole possession.

That's why there has to be some significant consequence for such a failing. We know it's a huge part of the problem.
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If I keep my gun on the nightstand 24/7 then that’s more than enough.
 
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#25,130
#25,130
lawgator1 said:
Unfortunately many what you term law abiding citizens have proven that they cannot be trusted with that responsibility because they failed to take reasonable steps to keep their guns safe and in their sole possession.

That's why there has to be some significant consequence for such a failing. We know it's a huge part of the problem.
Click to expand...

Why not also hold the cops legally liable for crimes they dont stop? Clearly they didnt take reasonable measures to avoid a crime happening somewhere, so clearly they are at fault. Its their job right?

I know in all of the contracts I have ever seen,read, or reviewed, that illegal activities by a third party never convey guilt to the victim. That's an impossible standard to hold. Especially for you anti gun guys who have no idea what is reasonable.

You are wanting to treat these criminal issues as if they are civil cases where you can just sue everyone under the sun. I mean it's more money for you lawyers so you are all for it, rights be damned.
 
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#25,132
#25,132
hog88 said:
And your back to victim blaming, never change LG. Girls shouldn't wear those short skirts huh?
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Do you think it likely that the gun possessed illegally by this guy began its life as lawfully purchased and owned by someone else? I certainly do as that is the way virtually all of them come into private hands to begin with. It would be ignorant not to incentivize people who lawfully buy and possess firearms to maintain such legality and possession, and to penalize those whose recklessness or irresponsibility in allowing them to escape their possession costs lives, like this.
 
#25,133
#25,133
LouderVol said:
Why not also hold the cops legally liable for crimes they dont stop? Clearly they didnt take reasonable measures to avoid a crime happening somewhere, so clearly they are at fault. Its their job right?

I know in all of the contracts I have ever seen,read, or reviewed, that illegal activities by a third party never convey guilt to the victim. That's an impossible standard to hold. Especially for you anti gun guys who have no idea what is reasonable.

You are wanting to treat these criminal issues as if they are civil cases where you can just sue everyone under the sun. I mean it's more money for you lawyers so you are all for it, rights be damned.
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Not remotely the same thing.
 
#25,134
#25,134
lawgator1 said:
Do you think it likely that the gun possessed illegally by this guy began its life as lawfully purchased and owned by someone else? I certainly do as that is the way virtually all of them come into private hands to begin with. It would be ignorant not to incentivize people who lawfully buy and possess firearms to maintain such legality and possession, and to penalize those whose recklessness or irresponsibility in allowing them to escape their possession costs lives, like this.
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Laws already on the books make it illegal to give/sell a gun to someone who cannot legally purchase one so that aspect is covered. Now all you have left is punishment for victims of theft and that is what you’re advocating.
 
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#25,135
#25,135
I cant wait to start finding the government guilty for forcing its citizens to store guns in an unsatisfactory manner. The .gov is finally going to be getting the rap sheet it deserves.
 
#25,136
#25,136
lawgator1 said:
Do you think it likely that the gun possessed illegally by this guy began its life as lawfully purchased and owned by someone else? I certainly do as that is the way virtually all of them come into private hands to begin with. It would be ignorant not to incentivize people who lawfully buy and possess firearms to maintain such legality and possession, and to penalize those whose recklessness or irresponsibility in allowing them to escape their possession costs lives, like this.
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Chicago is flooded with illegally purchased guns. At least that's what we're told. Your assumption is likely incorrect
 
#25,138
#25,138
LouderVol said:
It would likely just be one, and it would be a consistent on/off thing. A couple days to a weak stored, pick it up, drop it back off maybe same day, store for a couple days, repeat.

I am not asking for myself, but this person wants protection while on hikes, but doesnt feel comfortable storing in an apartment.
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A lot of local law enforcement will store your gun. One of my employees drove to Canada and he was able to store his gun at LE department in Michigan while he was in Canada.
 
#25,139
#25,139
hog88 said:
Laws already on the books make it illegal to give/sell a gun to someone who cannot legally purchase one so that aspect is covered. Now all you have left is punishment for victims of theft and that is what you’re advocating.
Click to expand...

Somehow he's under the delusion that if he repeats that absurd argument enough times it'll make sense one day. For the rest of us reading that twaddle it's just

 
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#25,140
#25,140
hog88 said:
Laws already on the books make it illegal to give/sell a gun to someone who cannot legally purchase one so that aspect is covered. Now all you have left is punishment for victims of theft and that is what you’re advocating.
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But we know people do idiotic things like leave them in dresser drawers or in glove compartments. There needs to be a consequence for that when the gun is then stolen. Does not necessarily have to be a major crime.

But for example when a person buys a handgun, how about they sign an agreement that they will maintain it securely or dispose of it in any one of a number of lawful ways. Every three years they provide proof that they still lawfully possess it or have lawfully disposed of it (for example if you want to get rid of it go to a collection site -- could be any gun shop -- and get a receipt showing you no longer possess it).

You get a reminder as the three years approaches and you get a notice if three years goes by, giving you another 90 days to show possession or lawful disposition. If after that time you have not done so, you are fined $5,000.

But, if you then show possession or lawful disposition, its reduced to $25 to cover the paperwork.

This way, anyone can buy a gun, they just have to exercise some minimal due diligence to keep is from ending up in the hands of a guy like last night.
 
#25,141
#25,141
All the gun laws and restrictions possible still don’t stop a bad guy with a gun
Politicians still can’t figure that out so they keep hurting law abiding people……

That was a gun free zone but the bad guy didn’t care so let’s keep trying to punish responsible citizens
 
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#25,142
#25,142
lawgator1 said:
But we know people do idiotic things like leave them in dresser drawers or in glove compartments. There needs to be a consequence for that when the gun is then stolen. Does not necessarily have to be a major crime.

But for example when a person buys a handgun, how about they sign an agreement that they will maintain it securely or dispose of it in any one of a number of lawful ways. Every three years they provide proof that they still lawfully possess it or have lawfully disposed of it (for example if you want to get rid of it go to a collection site -- could be any gun shop -- and get a receipt showing you no longer possess it).

You get a reminder as the three years approaches and you get a notice if three years goes by, giving you another 90 days to show possession or lawful disposition. If after that time you have not done so, you are fined $5,000.

But, if you then show possession or lawful disposition, its reduced to $25 to cover the paperwork.

This way, anyone can buy a gun, they just have to exercise some minimal due diligence to keep is from ending up in the hands of a guy like last night.
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This is stupid.
 
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#25,143
#25,143
Keep them in a safe if need be but I guarantee you a guy breaking in isn’t going to give you time to unlock the safe and defend yourself……

One on the nightstand is not a problem. I keep ones I don’t use regularly locked up and take out the bolts so the can’t fire and store them hidden somewhere else in the house.
 
#25,145
#25,145
lawgator1 said:
But we know people do idiotic things like leave them in dresser drawers or in glove compartments. There needs to be a consequence for that when the gun is then stolen. Does not necessarily have to be a major crime.

But for example when a person buys a handgun, how about they sign an agreement that they will maintain it securely or dispose of it in any one of a number of lawful ways. Every three years they provide proof that they still lawfully possess it or have lawfully disposed of it (for example if you want to get rid of it go to a collection site -- could be any gun shop -- and get a receipt showing you no longer possess it).

You get a reminder as the three years approaches and you get a notice if three years goes by, giving you another 90 days to show possession or lawful disposition. If after that time you have not done so, you are fined $5,000.

But, if you then show possession or lawful disposition, its reduced to $25 to cover the paperwork.

This way, anyone can buy a gun, they just have to exercise some minimal due diligence to keep is from ending up in the hands of a guy like last night.
Click to expand...

How about HELL NO and a few other choice words?

Again you are trying to victim blame, no different than blaming a rape victim for wearing a revealing outfit to a party. "It was she that was irresponsible and caused teh rape by wearing such a tempting outfit" is the argument you are making. If someone has the car/house broken into and their property is stolen they are a victim of a crime.
 
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#25,146
#25,146
LouderVol said:
It would likely just be one, and it would be a consistent on/off thing. A couple days to a weak stored, pick it up, drop it back off maybe same day, store for a couple days, repeat.

I am not asking for myself, but this person wants protection while on hikes, but doesnt feel comfortable storing in an apartment.
Click to expand...
Is it because they feel someone might come into the apartment and take it? I put mine up in the closet and the bullets in a different area lol.. I know I won’t be able to do anything fast, I just like knowing I have it if I needed it lol.. when we drove through New Orleans we had a loaded revolver that I carried in my Coach purse 😂.. the trigger is a very hard pull
 
#25,149
#25,149
mr.checkerboards said:
This is stupid.
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I am all ears for alternative solutions to the problem. We know that criminals are not particularly dissuaded from illegally possessing firearms which were one legally owned by someone else. So step 1 is to make penalties for illegal possession much stiffer. I could not agree more, I am on board, sign me up for that solution.

But it only address the back end of the problem. We also need to deal with the front end, which is to keep legally owned firearms in the custody and control of the purchaser (or subsequent owner if also legally transferred). But clearly, we have an enormous problem in that guns originally legally purchased are finding their way to the criminals on the front end of the problem.

My solution is to get the original purchasers to store them in a reasonably safe manner that reduces the possibility of the gun being stolen. I gave one proposal but am willing to listen to others that focus on preventing the gun from getting to the wrong guy in the first place.
 
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