Gun control debate (merged)

[hndog609]

Now if we wrongheaded people could just get you to actually read the Bill of rights instead of selectively scanning over the parts you don’t like and applying each right equally , We could fix a lot of those liberal tendencies you have .

Regarding the topic at hand he'd be better off reading Heller. Actually a lot of people would.

 

[luthervol]

They're not truths, they're opinions.

There's not always a line between the two.

That's like telling a religious person their faith is an opinion.
It may be an opinion, but it is also most definitely their personal truth.

 

[0nelilreb]

Regarding the topic at hand he'd be better off reading Heller. Actually a lot of people would.

He’s not going to read anything . He already has his belief system in place ( I live by simple truths ) . Reasonable and Rational are only talking points to try and get rid of any amount of firearms . He will take 100 and then talk about how that’s a start , now let’s do 1000, then 10,000 so on and so on until it get to where he believes we should be . That’s why I won’t negotiate. If the 2a is to broad for your personal beliefs the FFs put in a simple fix for that . Just make an amendment .

 

[Sandman 423]

Well, the NRA has basically stood firm on no compromise, and gunowners are defensive about it (I am, too, but am always willing to talk to people). We used to go to gun shows in KY all the time, back in the day.

It's not just guns, though.

Everything is so divisive these days.

Would a good compromise be to actually enforce the existing laws and then find out whether more laws are needed?

 

[hog88]

There's not always a line between the two.

That's like telling a religious person their faith is an opinion.
It may be an opinion, but it is also most definitely their personal truth.

There is truth and there are opinions/feelings. "Personal truths" is just slang.

 

[hndog609]

There's not always a line between the two.

That's like telling a religious person their faith is an opinion.
It may be an opinion, but it is also most definitely their personal truth.

This is nonsense, at least in any practical sense. If someone believes 2+2=purple as a "personal truth" I don't know what the hell anybody else is supposed to make of that but it damn sure doesn't have any bearing on the "truth" of that belief meaning jack squat with vettable reality.

 

[luthervol]

There is truth and there are opinions/feelings. "Personal truths" is just slang.

You have such an uncanny ability to see things as either white or black.
When does opinion become truth? Hint, it's a continuum.
LBJ was an evil man.
Reagan was an evil man.
Hitler was an evil man.
Jeffrey Dahmer was an evil man.
Gandhi was an evil man.
All opinions but with vastly different positions on the truth continuum.

Is a person's belief in their God a truth or an opinion/feeling.

And if it's an opinion/feeling, then is that opinion/feeling also their personal truth?

 

[hog88]

You have such an uncanny ability to see things as either white or black.
When does opinion become truth? Hint, it's a continuum.
LBJ was an evil man.
Reagan was an evil man.
Hitler was an evil man.
Jeffrey Dahmer was an evil man.
Gandhi was an evil man.
All opinions but with vastly different positions on the truth continuum.

Is a person's belief in their God a truth or an opinion/feeling.

And if it's an opinion/feeling, then is that opinion/feeling also their personal truth?

Again, "personal truth" is just slang for I refuse to listen to actual truth.

 

[luthervol]

This is nonsense, at least in any practical sense. If someone believes 2+2=purple as a "personal truth" I don't know what the hell anybody else is supposed to make of that but it damn sure doesn't have any bearing on the "truth" of that belief meaning jack squat with vettable reality.

If someone believes 2 + 2 = purple, then they would rightfully be viewed as crazy.

 

[luthervol]

Again, "personal truth" is just slang for I refuse to listen to actual truth.

Avoidance is evidently a key component of living in a black and white world.

 

[hog88]

Avoidance is evidently a key component of living in a black and white world.

My world is not black and white. I just don't use millennial slang.

 

[luthervol]

My world is not black and white. I just don't use millennial slang.

So is a person's faith an opinion, a truth, or a personal truth?

 

[hog88]

So is a person's faith an opinion, a truth, or a personal truth?

A persons faith is their opinion/belief, doesn't make it true.

 

[Pepe_Silvia]

Well, the NRA has basically stood firm on no compromise, and gunowners are defensive about it (I am, too, but am always willing to talk to people). We used to go to gun shows in KY all the time, back in the day.

It's not just guns, though.

Everything is so divisive these days.

"Compromise" always results in gun owners losing and gaining nothing in return. So **** compromise.

 

[hndog609]

If someone believes 2 + 2 = purple, then they would rightfully be viewed as crazy.

Hey hey hey man...it's their "personal truth".

Look man...you're basically trying to sell the idea of "personal vetting". It smacks up against the old "You're not entitled to your own facts." bit. The idea of a truth/fact, by it's very definition, is something that stands up under it's own merit divorced from anything "personal" or falling under a belief system.

With some subjects it's difficult or even impossible to have an absolute fact/truth in play. In that case one makes the best argument one can or carries on with faith/belief. That's fine too, but don't go throwing "truth" around when it isn't there.

 

[NorthDallas40]

Well, the NRA has basically stood firm on no compromise, and gunowners are defensive about it (I am, too, but am always willing to talk to people). We used to go to gun shows in KY all the time, back in the day.

It's not just guns, though.

Everything is so divisive these days.

As far as I’m concerned we already have too many laws on the books limiting a constitutional right and they all need to be vacated immediately. All restrictions on Title II firearms need to be rescinded immediately and NFA1934 and GCA1968 should be vacated.

Yes the intent is I should be able to go to Cabelas and buy an Abrams tank if I wanted one.

 

[luthervol]

A persons faith is their opinion/belief, doesn't make it true.

But it is certainly truth to them......thus, personal truth.
Their belief that pepperoni pizza is better than sausage pizza is an opinion.
Their belief that Hitler was an evil man is an opinion that blends into truth.
Their belief in God moves beyond opinion and into a personal truth. (whether or not we agree is inconsequential)
To view those 3 as the same is to live in a black and white world.

 

[37L1]

But it is certainly truth to them......thus, personal truth.
Their belief that pepperoni pizza is better than sausage pizza is an opinion.
Their belief that Hitler was an evil man is an opinion that blends into truth.
Their belief in God moves beyond opinion and into a personal truth. (whether or not we agree is inconsequential)
To view those 3 as the same is to live in a black and white world.

Here we go. . . again.

 

[luthervol]

Hey hey hey man...it's their "personal truth".

Look man...you're basically trying to sell the idea of "personal vetting". It smacks up against the old "You're not entitled to your own facts." bit. The idea of a truth/fact, by it's very definition, is something that stands up under it's own merit divorced from anything "personal" or falling under a belief system.

With some subjects it's difficult or even impossible to have an absolute fact/truth in play. In that case one makes the best argument one can or carries on with faith/belief. That's fine too, but don't go throwing "truth" around when it isn't there.

It's the continuum.

LBJ was an evil man.
Reagan was an evil man.
Hitler was an evil man.
Jeffrey Dahmer was an evil man.
Gandhi was an evil man.

Are all equal and justifiable opinions or are some more accepted as being grounded in truth?

 

[luthervol]

Here we go. . . again.

It does get old.

 

[GordonC]

Luther, that's several posts in a row in which you didn't mention T***p.
Are you sure you didn't hit your head or something?

 

[hndog609]

It's the continuum.

LBJ was an evil man.
Reagan was an evil man.
Hitler was an evil man.
Jeffrey Dahmer was an evil man.
Gandhi was an evil man.

Are all equal and justifiable opinions or are some more accepted as being grounded in truth?

No. If someone believes or disbelieves any of the things you cite it's just that, a belief unless the actual truths/facts supporting the contention hold up under their own merit. Again, in some instances an absolute truth/fact is impossible to establish. All else is twaddle or people that can't separate the definitions of "truth" and "belief". (either by ignorance or bias)

 

[37L1]

No. If someone believes or disbelieves any of the things you cite it's just that, a belief unless the actual truths/facts supporting the contention hold up under their own merit. Again, in some instances an absolute truth/fact is impossible to establish. All else is twaddle or people that can't separate the definitions of "truth" and "belief". (either by ignorance or bias)

luther believes in twaddle.

 

[Mick]

If I own a city block in New York .. it’s most definitely public .

Good lord you don't even understand the difference between public and private property. What are you a communist?

 

[0nelilreb]

Good lord you don't even understand the difference between public and private property. What are you a communist?

If I own land its private ( got it ) , if I own land in New York City it’s against the law to have my firearm out on my private land . Do you get it yet ? Just nod yes . It will be simpler .