Gun control debate (merged)

#11,552
#11,552
AshG said:
So I clarify and I'm still wrong. Nice.
Click to expand...
This was a clarify and not a defense? Ok...
AshG said:
So because I forgot to use the words "in addition to more guns in the hands of good people," the assumption is automatically that I think they should be taken away?

I don't dabble in dualistic thinking. There are always spectrums of possibilities available, including some that can happen at the same time. Like increased community vigilance and increased carry.

When the automatic response to any suggestions that don't explicitly include more guns is that someone is trying to take guns, there's a whale of a psychological issue hiding underneath
Click to expand...
 
#11,553
#11,553
Need someone else to make fun of or ride like a cheap mule for a bit? Glad I could oblige. It's a sad state of affairs when you can't take a person at their word who's trying to meaningfully contribute.
 
#11,555
#11,555
AshG said:
Need someone else to make fun of or ride like a cheap mule for a bit? Glad I could oblige. It's a sad state of affairs when you can't take a person at their word who's trying to meaningfully contribute.
Click to expand...
Look in your first post on this it clearly read to me that you were offering an alternative to armed citizens not an addition. In your reply to that it read defensive and back tracking. That’s all. All I can do is read what you type and infer if you don’t state something.

Now you have stated in addition to armed citizens it would be nice to see an aware and active community. I agree that would be a good additional step. Ok?
 
#11,556
#11,556
hjeagle1vol said:
I admire your ideals, but reality doesn't jive. Liberal thought police, and gun confiscation killed 100 million people last century. The risk of utopia is wasted on the dead.
Click to expand...

Realism must always be accompanied by idealism, and idealism by realism. We never get anywhere if we don't wonder "What if?" And if we give the reigns unfettered to the creatives, we end up in equally dystopian messes.

I think of the situation at Maury Middle in Jefferson county from about a decade and a half ago. Several people on the bus knew the student had the weapon but said nothing. We're lucky all that happened was him shooting himself in the leg in the bathroom instead of gunning down the PE teachers, but the gun sat in the locker for hours while students sat waiting for the gunfire. One kid could have stopped it all of it had been drilled in them that they had a better chance of surviving by speaking up than staying silent.

There is no one answer. It will have to be a cocktail solution. And that doesn't mean more laws or restrictions.
 
  • Like
Reactions: hjeagle1vol
#11,558
#11,558
NorthDallas40 said:
Now you have stated in addition to armed citizens it would be nice to see an aware and active community. I agree that would be a good additional step. Ok?
Click to expand...

Thank you.

I go back to something from earlier that your reply hit on: you inferred that I was recommending community policing instead of other pro-gun alternatives. There appears to be an underlying community understanding that any suggestion that does not explicitly identify itself as pro-gun is inherently anti-gun.

Has something happened here in the past that has caused the automatic assumption to be this way?
 
#11,559
#11,559
AshG said:
Or maybe, just maybe, an enhanced sense of community responsibility and someone notifying the police with suspicions that he illegally possessed a firearm.

Wonder how many shootings people paying attention and saying something in advance would stop?
Click to expand...
Ash the guy was a loner having traveled all over the country. No one to report on him.
 
#11,561
#11,561
AshG said:
Thank you.

I go back to something from earlier that your reply hit on: you inferred that I was recommending community policing instead of other pro-gun alternatives. There appears to be an underlying community understanding that any suggestion that does not explicitly identify itself as pro-gun is inherently anti-gun.

Has something happened here in the past that has caused the automatic assumption to be this way?
Click to expand...
The back and forth always seems to revolve around there must be something instead of armed citizens. So in general you get two sets of replies on this button pushing topic. Removing prohibitions from arming citizens or anything other than arming citizens. Since you didn’t state your suggestion was in addition I just inferred the “anything other than arming citizens” that’s all.

And I don’t know why people don’t seem to want to speak out more. The El Paso shooting was another case of clear warning signs going unheeded. If anything in the age we live in now I would think information is more readily available it just seems like a lack of community involvement. I don’t think it’s all about not wanting to be a nosy busy body. People just seem self absorbed and unwilling to engage 🤷‍♂️
 
  • Like
Reactions: AshG
#11,562
#11,562
AshG said:
Realism must always be accompanied by idealism, and idealism by realism. We never get anywhere if we don't wonder "What if?" And if we give the reigns unfettered to the creatives, we end up in equally dystopian messes.

I think of the situation at Maury Middle in Jefferson county from about a decade and a half ago. Several people on the bus knew the student had the weapon but said nothing. We're lucky all that happened was him shooting himself in the leg in the bathroom instead of gunning down the PE teachers, but the gun sat in the locker for hours while students sat waiting for the gunfire. One kid could have stopped it all of it had been drilled in them that they had a better chance of surviving by speaking up than staying silent.

There is no one answer. It will have to be a cocktail solution. And that doesn't mean more laws or restrictions.
Click to expand...


1st and 3rd paragraphs I at least understand your thinking, and on some points agree.. #2 is utopian wishful thinking that only sees one side of the coin. Have you paid attention to the kids getting suspended for pointing finger guns or even going to the range with their mom to learn responsible weapon handling. If the leftists could be trusted with responsible enforcement I might have a slight lean your direction. Unfortunately, history tells a different story. Reality and historical precedent set the stage to validate my resolve to your wishful thinking.
 
#11,563
#11,563
hjeagle1vol said:
1st and 3rd paragraphs I at least understand your thinking, and on some points agree.. #2 is utopian wishful thinking that only sees one side of the coin. Have you paid attention to the kids getting suspended for pointing finger guns or even going to the range with their mom to learn responsible weapon handling. If the leftists could be trusted with responsible enforcement I might have a slight lean your direction. Unfortunately, history tells a different story. Reality and historical precedent set the stage to validate my resolve to your wishful thinking.
Click to expand...

We can't just blame the left. McCarthyism is a pretty stinging blight on our history. Don't like someone? They're a communist! But yeah, that does go along with what you're saying.

As a former public school educator, I agree with you on the stupid nature of 0 Tolerance rules on things like finger gun play. Our fear of lawyers and lawnmower parents has taken away so many learning opportunities. Playground time without constant surveillance and overdone accident prevention? What a concept!

As for the middle paragraph, I taught in Jefferson county when that happened. Lived and went to church just a piece from the school. Lots of second guessing the situation and blaming the silent for a while in the community. I can understand the raw emotions, though.
 
  • Like
Reactions: hjeagle1vol
#11,564
#11,564
AshG said:
We can't just blame the left. McCarthyism is a pretty stinging blight on our history. Don't like someone? They're a communist! But yeah, that does go along with what you're saying.

As a former public school educator, I agree with you on the stupid nature of 0 Tolerance rules on things like finger gun play. Our fear of lawyers and lawnmower parents has taken away so many learning opportunities. Playground time without constant surveillance and overdone accident prevention? What a concept!

As for the middle paragraph, I taught in Jefferson county when that happened. Lived and went to church just a piece from the school. Lots of second guessing the situation and blaming the silent for a while in the community. I can understand the raw emotions, though.
Click to expand...

Muslim terrorist's bombed and murdered 12 of my co-workers. Should my raw emotional response dictate that I should "red flag" every one of them of which I'm suspicious?
 
#11,565
#11,565
NorthDallas40 said:
The back and forth always seems to revolve around there must be something instead of armed citizens. So in general you get two sets of replies on this button pushing topic. Removing prohibitions from arming citizens or anything other than arming citizens. Since you didn’t state your suggestion was in addition I just inferred the “anything other than arming citizens” that’s all.

And I don’t know why people don’t seem to want to speak out more. The El Paso shooting was another case of clear warning signs going unheeded. If anything in the age we live in now I would think information is more readily available it just seems like a lack of community involvement. I don’t think it’s all about not wanting to be a nosy busy body. People just seem self absorbed and unwilling to engage 🤷‍♂️
Click to expand...
Your last sentence rings true. If you get involved, there could be repercussions. There shouldn't be for doing what's right but often there is.
 
  • Like
Reactions: hjeagle1vol and AshG
#11,567
#11,567
DC_Vol said:
It takes a village to stop a potential murderer.
Click to expand...

I'd rather have a 45 on my side than a village to talk to, obfuscate about, take a vote, and come to a democratic solution.
Canoe that potential murderers cranium just like ole dude yesterday who saved "how many lives" in a split second decision?
 
  • Like
Reactions: norrislakevol, davethevol, DC_Vol and 1 other person
#11,571
#11,571
AshG said:
Realism must always be accompanied by idealism, and idealism by realism. We never get anywhere if we don't wonder "What if?" And if we give the reigns unfettered to the creatives, we end up in equally dystopian messes.

I think of the situation at Maury Middle in Jefferson county from about a decade and a half ago. Several people on the bus knew the student had the weapon but said nothing. We're lucky all that happened was him shooting himself in the leg in the bathroom instead of gunning down the PE teachers, but the gun sat in the locker for hours while students sat waiting for the gunfire. One kid could have stopped it all of it had been drilled in them that they had a better chance of surviving by speaking up than staying silent.

There is no one answer. It will have to be a cocktail solution. And that doesn't mean more laws or restrictions.
Click to expand...
Like I said earlier, if someone knows, then yes they should say something. You came across that someone should've known Sunday, or every time. Some times no one knows what a person is gonna do.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AshG
#11,575
#11,575
AshG said:
I can't put words to my feelings right now. I am so sorry.
Click to expand...

I'm not looking for your sorry. Penance was paid IN FULL I GUARANTEE!!
I only ask that you error on the side of caution when it comes to thought policy. It's the 1st step towards the demise of a free and functioning and inclusive society. Again, I appreciate your ideals, but putting them into real life practice is difficult for some...a weapon for others. Sleep on it fren....
 
  • Like
Reactions: InVOLuntary, davethevol and tennvols77
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.
Advertisement





Back
Top