Gun control debate (merged)

#7,831
#7,831
luthervol said:
I believe there is a correlation between the number of guns purchased (which isn't the same as the number owned - if it were, this would be less of an issue) and danger to society.
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What would be your rolling clock? X guns within a....? same day? week? month? year?

personally I am fine with any number of purchases as long as they can afford it, if there is some lay-away option take a look. but for the sake of discussion:

number of guns bought within a month (30 day period):
1-2: standard check (this is the better check mentioned before)
3-4: standard check with less than a week wait time
5+: standard check, questions on why (just about anything would be valid here for me as long as they are admitting to violence) but an actual person checking in with the purchaser, and maybe a 2 week wait time.

From my view point a potential shooter with multiple guns, and different ammo types is a lot less mobile than one person with 1/2 guns, and plenty of reloads on their person ready to go. Someone who is ready to do damage from a fixed position, think the shooter in vegas, or the VT shooting, they are going to be able to out-wait any "wait period", and pass any check. they aren't in a rush to go on a spree.
 
#7,832
#7,832
LouderVol said:
What would be your rolling clock? X guns within a....? same day? week? month? year?

personally I am fine with any number of purchases as long as they can afford it, if there is some lay-away option take a look. but for the sake of discussion:

number of guns bought within a month (30 day period):
1-2: standard check (this is the better check mentioned before)
3-4: standard check with less than a week wait time
5+: standard check, questions on why (just about anything would be valid here for me as long as they are admitting to violence) but an actual person checking in with the purchaser, and maybe a 2 week wait time.

From my view point a potential shooter with multiple guns, and different ammo types is a lot less mobile than one person with 1/2 guns, and plenty of reloads on their person ready to go. Someone who is ready to do damage from a fixed position, think the shooter in vegas, or the VT shooting, they are going to be able to out-wait any "wait period", and pass any check. they aren't in a rush to go on a spree.
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I like the graduated scale.
I do not support this because I think it will reduce the instances of the psycho mass shooter but because I think it will lessen the number of guns getting into the hands of the everyday criminal.
 
#7,835
#7,835
luthervol said:
See how comforting your delusion is?
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you are being intellectually dishonest here.

you keep saying you are just for reasonable gun control. but in the same sentence, or paragraph at least, you say we should be reducing the number of guns. you say those things like they are connected but its like saying the north east start to the grand canyon is close to the south west end of the grand canyon. yeah technically they might be linked, but only someone who doesn't comprehend the scope of what they are talking about would make that connection.
 
#7,836
#7,836
LouderVol said:
you are being intellectually dishonest here.

you keep saying you are just for reasonable gun control. but in the same sentence, or paragraph at least, you say we should be reducing the number of guns. you say those things like they are connected but its like saying the north east start to the grand canyon is close to the south west end of the grand canyon. yeah technically they might be linked, but only someone who doesn't comprehend the scope of what they are talking about would make that connection.
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They are connected in my mind.
I said from the beginning that my philosophical stance was our country would be a better place with 300,000,000 guns in circulation as opposed to 400,000,000. I believe that is rational and reasonable.
I know some feel that is not rational and reasonable.
We have no choice but to let the deciders decide.
 
#7,837
#7,837
luthervol said:
I like the graduated scale.
I do not support this because I think it will reduce the instances of the psycho mass shooter but because I think it will lessen the number of guns getting into the hands of the everyday criminal.
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Freudian slip? :)

that's the issue we are dealing with. Two completely different scales, any right we take away from Americans MIGHT cut back on the number of pyschos shooting up the place, but it will not impact the every day criminal. So you are taking away our rights for nothing. or at least for not the major cause of loss of life.
 
#7,838
#7,838
LouderVol said:
Freudian slip? :)

that's the issue we are dealing with. Two completely different scales, any right we take away from Americans MIGHT cut back on the number of pyschos shooting up the place, but it will not impact the every day criminal. So you are taking away our rights for nothing. or at least for not the major cause of loss of life.
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I don't follow at all. It will reduce the number of guns reaching the everyday criminal which will reduce violence and death.
 
#7,839
#7,839
luthervol said:
They are connected in my mind.
I said from the beginning that my philosophical stance was our country would be a better place with 300,000,000 guns in circulation as opposed to 400,000,000. I believe that is rational and reasonable.
I know some feel that is not rational and reasonable.
We have no choice but to let the deciders decide.
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actually no we don't. We are Americans, we should be standing shoulder to shoulder looking out for every AMERICAN's rights. having no choice is what caused the Revolution. Its what caused any number of atrocities.

just by putting a number on it, 300,000,000. you have denied Americans the right to own guns. There are more of us than there are guns in your controlled system. 400,000,000 isn't any better, by 2060 our population is projected to be more than that. You can't defacto limit a right. I keep saying it, apply these same standards you apply to guns to the right to vote. America gets capped at 300,000,000 votes. thats it. That would be a HUGE infringement upon our rights.
 
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#7,840
#7,840
luthervol said:
I don't follow at all. It will reduce the number of guns reaching the everyday criminal which will reduce violence and death.
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most guns used by the everyday criminal are obtained illegally. so no matter what you do, criminals will still get them. all you have done is removed your right to get one.
giphy.gif
 
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#7,841
#7,841
LouderVol said:
most guns used by the everyday criminal are obtained illegally. so no matter what you do, criminals will still get them. all you have done is removed your right to get one.
giphy.gif
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LouderVol said:
actually no we don't. We are Americans, we should be standing shoulder to shoulder looking out for every AMERICAN's rights. having no choice is what caused the Revolution. Its what caused any number of atrocities.

just by putting a number on it, 300,000,000. you have denied Americans the right to own guns. There are more of us than there are guns in your controlled system. 400,000,000 isn't any better, by 2060 our population is projected to be more than that. You can't defacto limit a right. I keep saying it, apply these same standards you apply to guns to the right to vote. America gets capped at 300,000,000 votes. thats it. That would be a HUGE infringement upon our rights.
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There will never be a time in this country when a person who is of age, mentally stable, and has a clean enough record is denied the right to own a gun.
 
#7,842
#7,842
LouderVol said:
most guns used by the everyday criminal are obtained illegally. so no matter what you do, criminals will still get them. all you have done is removed your right to get one.
giphy.gif
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Guns that are obtained illegally were once purchased legally............that's the problem.
 
#7,850
#7,850
The broad masses of a population are more amenable to the appeal of rhetoric than to any other force.

The victor will never be asked if he told the truth.

Who says I am not under the special protection of God?

Success is the sole earthly judge of right and wrong.

It is not truth that matters, but victory.

The art of leadership consists in consolidating the attention of the people against a single adversary and taking care that nothing will split up that attention.

Great liars are also great magicians.

Hate is more lasting than dislike.

I use emotion for the many and reserve reason for the few.

If you tell a big enough lie and and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed.

I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator.

As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice,

All propaganda has to be popular and has to accommodate itself to the comprehension of the least intelligent of those whom it seeks to reach.

It reads like a playbook.
 
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