Gun control debate (merged)

So again, how many of those employees have ever pro fired with that pistol?

And even you, manliest of men, have to admit a .410 or a .45 LC would take some getting used to. Especially with a female. :)
I am not the manliest of men. Let me tell you.......a 255 grain .45 Long Colt at 1,000 fps makes my wrist hurt. I think that the choice of the Judge was for public consumption, and more of a deterrent to possible robbers of that guy's insurance office.

Women will not shoot that thing often. Hell, I don't shoot it often, now that I know what it does with different loads. I usually shoot .22's. I'm not a recoil freak. I have enough arthritis that I don't enjoy it.
 
I am not the manliest of men. Let me tell you.......a 255 grain .45 Long Colt at 1,000 fps makes my wrist hurt. I think that the choice of the Judge was for public consumption, and more of a deterrent to possible robbers of that guy's insurance office.

Women will not shoot that thing often. Hell, I don't shoot it often, now that I know what it does with different loads. I usually shoot .22's. I'm not a recoil freak. I have enough arthritis that I don't enjoy it.

So, you're a girl? :p

I'd agree with the public consumption comment. but if said owner was serious about the whole deal, he'd outfit his office with a good quality 9mm, continued shooting practice and OJT in the event of an actual hostile incursion.
 
So, you're a girl? :p

I'd agree with the public consumption comment. but if said owner was serious about the whole deal, he'd outfit his office with a good quality 9mm, continued shooting practice and OJT in the event of an actual hostile incursion.
Not quite a girl, but also not thrilled about shooting handguns that make my hands ache for days either. Arthritis is not the most fun part of old age. The only actual fun part that I can think of is not having to work.
 
My adrenaline will be pumping so hard that I think that a precision shot is out of the question. I am thinking pray and spray. The 15 rounds of 9 mm would be the same.

Granny bought me 9mm to carry. It felt like a little toy in my big hands so I went back to my S&W 357 magnum. A more comfortable fit and will get the job done. :)
 
Not quite a girl, but also not thrilled about shooting handguns that make my hands ache for days either. Arthritis is not the most fun part of old age. The only actual fun part that I can think of is not having to work.

I'm being facetious you know?

I don't blame you. I worked with a guy we nicknamed "Hand Cannon" for a very good reason.
 
Granny bought me 9mm to carry. It felt like a little toy in my big hands so I went back to my S&W 357 magnum. A more comfortable fit and will get the job done. :)
I don't carry, but I have a full size 9 mm that I shoot. It is a Ruger P95....a little large to carry anyway, but a good range or house gun.
 
I'm being facetious you know?

I don't blame you. I worked with a guy we nicknamed "Hand Cannon" for a very good reason.
I know. I'm just playing along. I would much rather shoot the 9mm on the range. I would really rather shoot my dad's old High Standard Sport King semi-auto .22 made in 1952. Looks a bit Luger like, and shoots really well.
 
Some good news!!

Gun control group ‘livid’ about permitless carry override veto

Gun control group ‘livid’ about permitless carry override veto


Within 48 hours of Gov. Tomblin torpedoing a bill to allow concealed carry without a permit in the state, lawmakers passed it into law regardless.

In the first two days after West Virginia Gov. Earl Ray Tomblin’s repeat veto of a constitutional carry bill, the legislature voted to approve it without his signature.

Tomblin rejected the measure, surrounded by police officers last Thursday, citing concerns over the safety of law enforcement. This led to the House of Delegates voting 64-33 the next morning to pass the proposal over his veto and the state Senate voting 23-11 to do the same on Saturday. With legislative action complete on the bill, it will become the law of the land effective in 90 days
.

Afterwards, Tomblin released a statement painting the new law as being anti-police.

“West Virginia’s law enforcement officers have dedicated their lives to keeping us safe and helping us in times of need, and it’s disheartening that the members of the Legislature have chosen not to stand with these brave men and women – putting their safety and the safety of West Virginians at risk,” said Tomblin. “It’s unfortunate that the concerns of officers from every law enforcement branch in the state, including the West Virginia State Police and university campus police officers, have been ignored by today’s action.”


The new law, which passed as House Bill 4145, will allow those 21 and older who are legally able to possess a firearm under state and federal law to carry one concealed in the state without first having to obtain a permit.

Under its guidelines, the current licensing scheme will remain in place for those who want a permit for the sake of taking advantage of its extensive reciprocity recognition in other states, but one will not be a requirement to carry in the state. The new law allows for a $50 tax credit to offset training costs.

Further, those between the ages of 18-21 would be able to apply for a permit, which was previously prohibited.

State Attorney General Patrick Morrisey downplayed the Governor’s public safety argument, saying, “As the chief legal officer of the state and the person in charge of criminal matters for the state at the WV Supreme Court and in federal courts, I know that this legislation will not impact public safety. If this bill is enacted, we will not only expand freedom, but we will keep our citizens protected.”

Backing up Tomblin over the weekend were national gun control groups who fought the change at every turn for the past two years, successfully encouraging his veto both in 2015 and last week.

“As a mom and a West Virginian, I am livid that the legislature caved to the demands of the gun lobby on HB 4145,” said Dee Price with the West Virgina chapter of Moms Demand Action in a statement emailed to Guns.com.

New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg’s Everytown group who, as noted by the Associated Press, have invested “in the six-figure range” to blitz the issue in ads statewide, also funded a survey citing more than two-thirds of concealed carry permit holders favor requiring permits to carry a concealed handgun in public in the state.

“Law enforcement, our governor and 84 percent of West Virginians oppose allowing people to carry hidden, loaded firearms in public without a background check, safety training or a permit because it is just plain dangerous,” said Price. “This November, we will remember this craven effort to curry favor with the gun lobby at the expense of public safety.”

As for the gun lobby, Second Amendment Foundation’s Alan Gottlieb told Guns.com on Sunday that New York ad campaigns have trouble on the ground in states like West Virginia.

“This is a big win,” said Gottlieb. “Not just for gun rights but for the freedom movement in the battle against billionaire elitist gun prohibitionists like Michael Bloomberg. West Virginia just told him he can’t buy away our Second Amendment rights.”

The National Rifle Association, who mobilized support to help introduce legislation early enough during the session to allow for an almost inevitable veto showdown, argued it all boils down to the right to bear arms.

“Self-defense is a fundamental right that must be respected,” said Chris W. Cox, NRA-ILA executive director in a statement sent to Guns.com. “Law-abiding West Virginians are now free to choose the method of self-defense that best suits their needs. The NRA and our five million members are pleased that the legislature voted in support of West Virginians’ Second Amendment freedoms.”

West Virginia is now the eighth state to support constitutional carry.
 
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You'll never even need to consider your scenario if you just put one of these up. This country doesn't need people defending themselves and their loved ones, we just need more of these signs.
Of course, I could put one of those up, and wait for the inevitable idiot to break in, then cap his azz. You know, since all us Bible thumping gun toting rednecks are blood thirsty.

I'll make sure he gets one to the head. Just to be sure.
 
So I'm a little confused...with everyone throwing there's out on the table to show its bigger than the person next to them it's making me question gun size. If I shoot an intruder with a 357 between the eyes will he/she be more dead than if I shoot him/her with a 9mm??? What about a solid chest shot with a shotgun?

How does one make sure an intruder is the most dead???
 
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So I'm a little confused...with everyone throwing there's out on the table to show its bigger than the person next to them it's making me question gun size. If I shoot an intruder with a 357 between the eyes will he/she be more dead than if I shoot him/her with a 9mm??? What about a solid chest shot with a shotgun?

How does one make sure an intruder is the most dead???
2 to the body, 1 to the face. If he's wearing body armor, shoot him in the junk. He will lose his will to fight, then shoot him in the head.
 
So I'm a little confused...with everyone throwing there's out on the table to show its bigger than the person next to them it's making me question gun size. If I shoot an intruder with a 357 between the eyes will he/she be more dead than if I shoot him/her with a 9mm??? What about a solid chest shot with a shotgun?

How does one make sure an intruder is the most dead???

I don't think there's really any "caliber war" going on here. There is (and always will be) some platform bias but that can be the case irrespective of caliber. The Judge (and similar platforms) isn't nearly as "real world" vetted with shot loads so there's more debate there than in some areas.

The REAL issue is something you can quickly and accurately shoot well first and foremost. This trumps about any of the caliber issues.

And as an aside "dead" really isn't the primary concern in a self-defense scenario...that would be "stopping the threat". If that's a fatal thing so be it but it needn't be the case.
 
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I don't think there's really any "caliber war" going on here. There is (and always will be) some platform bias but that can be the case irrespective of caliber. The Judge (and similar platforms) isn't nearly as "real world" vetted with shot loads so there's more debate there than in some areas.

The REAL issue is something you can quickly and accurately shoot well first and foremost. This trumps about any of the caliber issues.

Oh, you uneducated heathen. Everyone knows there is no greater caliber in the world than .45 ACP and no greater platform than the 1911.

Go forth and atone for your sins at the Altar of John Moses Browning.
 
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Oh, you uneducated heathen. Everyone knows there is no greater caliber in the world than .45 ACP and no greater platform than the 1911.

Go forth and atone for your sins at the Altar of John Moses Browning.

I shall shuffle, sorely chastised, to the nearest range for some time with my Wilson Compact. (now you're jealous, aintcha? :p)
 
All of you should know the history of the man stopper that is the .45ACP. If it can stop drugged up Moros then it can stop a home invader.
 
I'm more of a Kimber kinda guy.

Kimbers seem much more hit or miss...I've heard some less than complimentary things. Of course, there's plenty of very happy Kimber owner's out there, apparently yourself included. Also there's the obvious price difference when compared to Wilsons/Nighthawks/Ed Brown/etc

At some point there's the very real risk I'm going to fall prey to a Dan Wesson...probably a V-Bob.
 
Kimbers seem much more hit or miss...I've heard some less than complimentary things. Of course, there's plenty of very happy Kimber owner's out there, apparently yourself included. Also there's the obvious price difference when compared to Wilsons/Nighthawks/Ed Brown/etc

At some point there's the very real risk I'm going to fall prey to a Dan Wesson...probably a V-Bob.

I won't own one of their 9mm versions again. (Kimber that is)

Oh Sig, please come out with a Commander sized 9mm in your 1911 platform.
 
I had one of the first runs of Kimbers TLE2 pistols. It was great. However, I had a friend that bought one at the same time as me, at the same shop, the serial numbers weren't very far apart and it was horrible, constant malfunctions, failures to feed, failures to eject, constant trouble. He ended up trading it for a colt. Not that colt is any better mind you, but he still has it to this day. This was back in 2003 so YMMV.

As was stated earlier, Kimbers are very hit and miss.

For my money, you simply cannot beat Les Baer. Great quality at a reasonable price.
 
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