Greatest UT Duo In History?

#108
#108
savannahfan said:
How time fades really noteworthy things. The study of history is very important.
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I agree totally. I think the premise of my argument is being misunderstood. It's not a talent question.

The question is: Does the core of the most successful 4 year period in UT history get the same level (or more) respect than UT's all-time most talented duo who didn't win a damn thing in the post season, was never #1 and certainly didn't maintain many, many weeks as a Top 5 team.

The resumes are not comparable. Neither is the level of talent they played with, despite any rankings, so that lends more to an argument for Ernie/Bernie. But if we measure success by winning then ZZ/Mashack are the core players during our program's best ever 4 year period, by far.
 
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#110
#110
LibertyVol said:
These youngsters have no idea how good King and Grunfeld were.
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And I'm plenty aware but overall the SEC is a much better league now and N.I.L has brought more parity than ever so it's hard to compare eras. Not many guys back then could guard 1-4 like Mashack and some others do today. Bernard King was special beyond what many younger people understand and his career championships would indicate. And that was while batting injuries when medicine wasn't as advanced. Had Top 15 all-time talent.

However, Bernard King would not be the only or as comparatively such an overwhelming athletic freak in today's game....but he would be a top player at his position and one and done. My point is simply that ZZ/Shack accomplished more at UT.
 
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#111
#111
hlee said:
Anybody suggesting any duo better than King & Grunfeld obviously is too young to have seen them play. King quite possibly the best overall player ever.
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Yes sir. I was 13 years old when Ernie and Bernie played together … bout remember every game they played . Mike Jackson was darn good too
 
#112
#112
GUNTERSVOL said:
ZZ is for sure in the running for any by the inch calculation and ranking. With 2 assists in the tourney he will be the career leader in assists.

He will add this to already blowing by the field as the career leader in steals.

One career mark on each side of the ball is pretty dang impressive.

I am assuming the stats I looked up are accurate and up to date.

Does not seem to meet stringent interpretation of number retirement policy, BUT….

————

Needs 3 of below criteria.

SEC Player of the Year

National Award (Player of the Year, Sullivan, or similar honor)

First-Team All-American

Career record holder in a significant category (as determined by the committee) at the UT, SEC, or national level upon completion of career

National championship during tenure

————-

Was he just voted an SEC Player of the year? Is that 2 of those?

Do Two career records both count? That would be at least 3 overall. Does not say you have to meet 3 different criteria, just 3 from the list.

Committe does have some flexibility I think. He should easily pass the character and academic standing criteria.

Bet Coach would help them wordsmith the deal.
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Plus, you factor in the national story line about his hard work, taking the train to school and play ball, getting overlooked by EVERYBODY in recruiting except for one UT assistant whose boss just happens to love tough, hard-nosed and hard working PG's.....especially if they have a chip on their shoulder.

He has become one of the most recognizable players in all of CBB over the last 4 years, really understood what it means to be part of the UT/Knoxville community in a tragic but EPIC way. He has represented the university with the highest levels of class, grace and leadership while also sharing how much the UT fan base has helped his family and supported him in general.

This is how we take care of a 3 star PG that came in with 5 star PG Kennedy Chandler to be a backup and had amazingly played well enough to get good minutes as a backup or even with Chandler due to our lack of shooting and ZZ refusing not to play with his great ball handling, passing and eefficient point production. Still, ZZ had yet to really prove who he would end up being to fans by that point. That didn't stop UT fans from buying his family what is probably the nicest house of anyone they know since they're from NY and what was raised buys a lot of house in TN.

The whole story is beautiful and one of love and loyalty. These mercenaries and greedy families, like a certain QB's with a difficult last name, should look at how ZZ has operated as a Vol. Be a good, likable and unselfish person devoted to the Vols and we will more than take care of you when it's time to pay you.
 
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#113
#113
gainesvol82 said:
And I'm plenty aware but overall the SEC is a much better league now and N.I.L has brought more parity than ever so it's hard to compare eras. Not many guys back then could guard 1-4 like Mashack and some others do today. Bernard King was special beyond what many younger people understand and his career championships would indicate. And that was while batting injuries when medicine wasn't as advanced. Had Top 15 all-time talent.

However, Bernard King would not be the only or as comparatively such an overwhelming athletic freak in today's game....but he would be a top player at his position and one and done. My point is simply that ZZ/Shack accomplished more at UT.
Click to expand...

To be clear, the end of the first paragraph is obviously referencing his NBA talent level and injuries.
 
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#114
#114
gainesvol82 said:
And I'm plenty aware but overall the SEC is a much better league now and N.I.L has brought more parity than ever so it's hard to compare eras. Not many guys back then could guard 1-4 like Mashack and some others do today. Bernard King was special beyond what many younger people understand and his career championships would indicate. And that was while batting injuries when medicine wasn't as advanced. Had Top 15 all-time talent.

However, Bernard King would not be the only or as comparatively such an overwhelming athletic freak in today's game....but he would be a top player at his position and one and done. My point is simply that ZZ/Shack accomplished more at UT.
Click to expand...

gainesvol82 said:
I agree totally. I think the premise of my argument is being misunderstood. It's not a talent question.

The question is: Does the core of the most successful 4 year period in UT history get the same level (or more) respect than UT's all-time most talented duo who didn't win a damn thing in the post season, was never #1 and certainly didn't maintain many, many weeks as a Top 5 team.

The resumes are not comparable. Neither is the level of talent they played with, despite any rankings, so that lends more to an argument for Ernie/Bernie. But if we measure success by winning then ZZ/Mashack are the core players during our program's best ever 4 year period, by far.
Click to expand...

King and Grunfeld: 42-12 SEC record
TN in the last 3 years: 37-17

King and Grunfeld’s last 2 years were only the 3rd and 4th times TN was EVER ranked in the Final AP poll. The only consecutive years of being ranked EVER until 1998-99/1999-2000.

King and Grunfeld’s won 5 in a row versus Kentucky including 2x at Memorial. When Kentucky was dominating the SEC.

Combined career 48 ppg and 20 rpg.

They won an SEC championship. The “post season” was apples and oranges.
 
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