Good ole Butch strikes again

#77
#77
Majors said:
A few here want to chest thump those two 9 win years as he arrived but fail to mention the exit year. Happens so fast these days.
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So again....if by Year 3 and 4 JH hasn't hit 9 wins and especially if in Year 5 he has a losing season, are you going to call for his job?
 
#78
#78
BigOrangeTrain said:
Butch has the 5th best passing offense in the country while we are 96th. But yeah throw shade at Butch.
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Butch created problems. Ask any coach worth their salt how many they create and how many they fix. Let’s look at it a bit further: His OL recruiting was garbage but nobody but the fans knew because Dobbs made it look so good. As we all know a talent like Dobbs makes life a lot easier. When coaches go on record to say “I wish he’d graduate already” he’s doing more for you than you did for him. Nobody feared Butch and they still don’t. The talent on the roster made it what it is. Often times getting in the way of the talent and or coaches only to move over when his job was on the line. He had the East won and pissed it away. The man is a micromanaging fraud who rides the coat tails of coaches to pad his own resume but yea don’t criticize him….

And let’s not forget he followed younger women around campus and made inappropriate comments towards them…

Fk Jones.
 
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#79
#79
VolsSportsFan said:
So again....if by Year 3 and 4 JH hasn't hit 9 wins and especially if in Year 5 he has a losing season, are you going to call for his job?
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Under your scenario of 3rd years are we on probation, scholarship restrictions etc? If so then not really. If he’s winning 6-7 with a limited roster vs 14-27 SEC record in 5 years then no. If we want to play the what if game, lay all the cards out.
 
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#82
#82
I realize this thread is all just jibber jabber, but I think they're playing about like Arkansas State. I'm not shocked they lost to Washington. That's not interesting. They scored 40 and 50 in the first two games, that's interesting. then 3 against Washington.
 
#84
#84
Majors said:
Dobbs saved Jones not the other way around.
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Exactly. There’s a reason why we was never a part of any meetings under Saban and why he lost to Washington. He’s not a good coach he’s just a leach who sucked the life out of everything before he got to Bama because he was put in his place.
 
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#85
#85
Majors said:
Under your scenario of 3rd years are we on probation, scholarship restrictions etc? If so then not really. If he’s winning 6-7 with a limited roster vs 14-27 SEC record in 5 years then no. If we want to play the what if game, lay all the cards out.
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6-7 wins with most of those wins against cupcake non conference teams?

And I am laying the cards out, if JH isn't doing what BJ could do by year 4, why would you still be giving him the benefit of the doubt? You also keep saying Dobbs saved Jones, ok, but who convinced him to come to UT?
 
#87
#87
Dudleys87 said:
Exactly. There’s a reason why we was never a part of any meetings under Saban and why he lost to Washington. He’s not a good coach he’s just a leach who sucked the life out of everything before he got to Bama because he was put in his place.
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He lost to Washington because it's f'n Arkansas St.
 
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#88
#88
Majors said:
His career was summed up in the final drive vs Vanderbilt year 1.
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Are you talking about the game where they stopped Vandy and a replay that in no way showed clear evidence was used to overturn the on the field ruling? That drive?
 
#90
#90
VolsSportsFan said:
Are you talking about the game where they stopped Vandy and a replay that in no way showed clear evidence was used to overturn the on the field ruling? That drive?
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Same drive....3rd and 1 inside the 50 with 5 mins left and he calls hand off to Neal that gets stuffed. Get the first down, kill time, maybe even score. Instead. punt and Vandy starts at the 5 and drives 95 yards. If you want hold the cards for a review then play the cards on the 3rd down conversions where we didn't get the stop before you replay view in question. That game we had close to 30 seniors on the roster, this was not a young team excuse loss.
 
#91
#91
VolsSportsFan said:
6-7 wins with most of those wins against cupcake non conference teams?

And I am laying the cards out, if JH isn't doing what BJ could do by year 4, why would you still be giving him the benefit of the doubt? You also keep saying Dobbs saved Jones, ok, but who convinced him to come to UT?
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Here's the flaw in your hypothetical to save Butch and your stocking stuffer bricks. He had 28 on roster SR's of all levels in year one, CJH lost 30 to the portal in one year. You're trying too hard without understanding the dynamic of both rosters. CJH has benefitted from transfers as well which knocks the number down. If he averages on 3 wins in SEC by year 4 then we have Butch Jones type problems. You're correct, he convinced him to come and back out of his commitment to ASU, he also mismanaged Dobbs career with two redshirt years burned late in both seasons.
 
#92
#92
de1conley said:
You remember tradition not the ppl who count which are 17/18 yr old kids who turn into recruits. What I'm telling you is being 4th or so in the conference in facilities doesn't win you any medals or advantages in anything. Due to ESPN and FoxSports everyone has facility money.
Again as far as Kiffin he did what any person in America would do when a better opportunity came about and took it. Top job on the west coast and a top 3 school while Pete was there. The only thing he didn't factor in was that he was walking in to restrictions and probation. But going to LA and coaching at USC was a much better place than a rebuild at UT in Knoxville.
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Well, he did a helluva job at USC, didn't he?

There are plenty of examples of coaches who passed-up jobs at more prestigious schools, so I think it's a stretch to say that everyone would make the same decision. Ultimately, he made what he considered was the best decision for Lane. He didn't care that he had made a commitment to UT and to the 17/18 yr old kids he recruited to UT. He didn't care about the damage two coaching changes in two seasons would do to UT. And that was his right. But it's also my right to be resentful towards him about it.

You should move out to the west coast and become a USC fan. You seem more impressed with them than most of the "fans" who live out here are. Hell, even Lane came back to the SEC to coach the prestigious Ole Miss program.
 
#93
#93
Hacksaw said:
I think anyone in Butch's position, under the same circumstances and given the same opportunity, would have done the exact same thing. The latitude and understanding extended to a guy who up'd and quit vs. a guy we fired seems kind of backwards to me.

But I really didn't post in this thread with the intention of "defending" Butch. I supported letting him go at the time. But I do think he is a good head coach who will be coaching for a long time and make a lot of money in the years to come.
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I disagree. I understand him wanting to stick it to the AD and maybe the fans of UT, but he also did it to the players he recruited.
Also I understand a year as Nicks servant, but after that I have too much pride. If I'm not getting a bigger role at Bama, I'm gone, whether as an OC or a head coach at a lower tier program..... but then again I'm not Butch and I'm glad I'm not.....even with all his UT money.....
 
#94
#94
Wireless1 said:
I disagree. I understand him wanting to stick it to the AD and maybe the fans of UT, but he also did it to the players he recruited.
Also I understand a year as Nicks servant, but after that I have too much pride. If I'm not getting a bigger role at Bama, I'm gone, whether as an OC or a head coach at a lower tier program..... but then again I'm not Butch and I'm glad I'm not.....even with all his UT money.....
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Yeah, I'm sure his former recruits didn't like it any more than us fans did. But I would imagine they understood that he's got to make a living and that a chance to learn from the best is an opportunity he would have been crazy to pass up. And it's not like he abandoned his recruits and the rest of his players. He was FIRED. I still think a lot of people who are criticizing him are being a bit less than honest about how they would have acted in the same situation.

Look at it from Butch's point of view. Some of you may have been in a job situation where you thought you had worked hard, been dealt a bit of bad luck (as Butch was with the injuries, for instance) and shown enough to warrant a bit more consideration from your employer. It only makes sense to me that he may have felt this way. Depending on what went on behind the scenes (and we know what a cluster it is with the different camps of boosters vying for control), he may have felt that he deserved more support from key people in the AD. So now you've been kicked to the curb and you've got a lot of contractually obligated pay still coming. You're really going to rush to take another job and lose that money, just so you can be nice to the same people who fired you? Sorry, not buyin' it.

I also think a lot of people look at Butch smoking the cigar and imagine that he is directing that towards Tennessee. I admit it's possible. But I think it's more likely that the team is celebrating, he's part of the team, people are taking pictures and there he is. Again, WE FIRED HIM. He's not obligated to act any particular way for the sake of our feelings.
 
#95
#95
Hacksaw said:
Butch also won his first game as their new head coach and scored 50 points in a 5-point loss to Memphis, who beat Mississippi State the following week. I predict that Arkansas State will have a winning team this season under Butch and go to a bowl game. And given Butch's record in bowl games, they'll probably win that game, too.

Butch is a good coach and he still has a bright future. It just didn't work out for him at UT. No need to be petty and hold a grudge, IMO. He didn't screw us over like Lane Kiffin, who half the people here seem to have some sort of man-crush on.
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Because Kiffin was an immature prick when he was here but has grown up a bit after losing his trophy job, his trophy wife - getting kicked in the teeth will do that to you. But there is no question that Kiffin is a seriously good football coach.

Butch on the other hand, there is serious questions as to his ability to actually coach, especially on the big stage. I think he probably will do ok though in the mid majors.
 
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#96
#96
Hacksaw said:
Yeah, I'm sure his former recruits didn't like it any more than us fans did. But I would imagine they understood that he's got to make a living and that a chance to learn from the best is an opportunity he would have been crazy to pass up. And it's not like he abandoned his recruits and the rest of his players. He was FIRED. I still think a lot of people who are criticizing him are being a bit less than honest about how they would have acted in the same situation.

Look at it from Butch's point of view. Some of you may have been in a job situation where you thought you had worked hard, been dealt a bit of bad luck (as Butch was with the injuries, for instance) and shown enough to warrant a bit more consideration from your employer. It only makes sense to me that he may have felt this way. Depending on what went on behind the scenes (and we know what a cluster it is with the different camps of boosters vying for control), he may have felt that he deserved more support from key people in the AD. So now you've been kicked to the curb and you've got a lot of contractually obligated pay still coming. You're really going to rush to take another job and lose that money, just so you can be nice to the same people who fired you? Sorry, not buyin' it.

I also think a lot of people look at Butch smoking the cigar and imagine that he is directing that towards Tennessee. I admit it's possible. But I think it's more likely that the team is celebrating, he's part of the team, people are taking pictures and there he is. Again, WE FIRED HIM. He's not obligated to act any particular way for the sake of our feelings.
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We fired him because he checked out and went winless in conference. He was paid a lot of money at a big time program and those are the expectations that come with it.

To me it’s six one half dozen the other between him being fired or quit. He quit on the team, plain and simple. He got his buyout, went to the enemy, and rubbed it in the teams face after by taking pictures and smoking cigars. Any decent human being with a scintilla of integrity and self worth would have just got on the bus after the Bama game at Neyland.
 
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#97
#97
Gandalf said:
Because Kiffin was an immature prick when he was here but has grown up a bit after losing his trophy job, his trophy wife - getting kicked in the teeth will do that to you. But there is no question that Kiffin is a seriously good football coach.

Butch on the other hand, there is serious questions as to his ability to actually coach, especially on the big stage. I think he probably will do ok though in the mid majors.
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I'll repeat myself. We had a 28-34 record in the 5 seasons before Butch. In his 5 seasons at UT we were 34-27. This included 3 post-season bowl games in which Butch was a perfect 3-0, outscoring our opponents 128-58. This, along with his overall head coaching career record, is evidence that the man can coach. I started all of this by daring to predict that he will continue to be successful. and I don't think that's such a far-fetched statement.

As for Kiffin vs. Butch, your perspective is certainly one way to compare them. Another perspective would be that Lane quit on us and has made a habit of publicly trolling us ever since, while Butch has gone on his way and focused on his own career. See? It all depends on your perspective. To me, there's no question which one of them is the bigger prick.
 
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#98
#98
rjd970 said:
We fired him because he checked out and went winless in conference. He was paid a lot of money at a big time program and those are the expectations that come with it.

To me it’s six one half dozen the other between him being fired or quit. He quit on the team, plain and simple. He got his buyout, went to the enemy, and rubbed it in the teams face after by taking pictures and smoking cigars. Any decent human being with a scintilla of integrity and self worth would have just got on the bus after the Bama game at Neyland.
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The stage may have just been too big for him, but I don't think there's any evidence that Butch "checked out". I agree about the expectations and that's why I supported letting him go at the time. I disagree with denigrating the man as a human being. He did a lot of good things in Knoxville and took us to the highest points in the program's history post-Fulmer.

He was fired after one horrible season where it was obvious that the team quit half-way through. Prior to that, we were competitive in losses to UF and SC (losing by one score in both games). Blowout losses to the two best teams in the country (UGA and Bama) set the table and the loss to Kentucky by a FG sealed his fate. It was almost a formality when he was fired two weeks later, after the team played the most epic lay-down game in history at Mizzou.

Looking at the bigger picture, his record vs. conference opponents was his downfall. I don't think Butch quit. He was just in over his head.
 
#99
#99
Hacksaw said:
The stage may have just been too big for him, but I don't think there's any evidence that Butch "checked out". I agree about the expectations and that's why I supported letting him go at the time. I disagree with denigrating the man as a human being. He did a lot of good things in Knoxville and took us to the highest points in the program's history post-Fulmer.

He was fired after one horrible season where it was obvious that the team quit half-way through. Prior to that, we were competitive in losses to UF and SC (losing by one score in both games). Blowout losses to the two best teams in the country (UGA and Bama) set the table and the loss to Kentucky by a FG sealed his fate. It was almost a formality when he was fired two weeks later, after the team played the most epic lay-down game in history at Mizzou.

Looking at the bigger picture, his record vs. conference opponents was his downfall. I don't think Butch quit. He was just in over his head.
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If he wants to go work for the GOAT then it is what it is. The pictures after the Bama game says a lot about him as a person though.
 
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#100
#100
rjd970 said:
If he wants to go work for the GOAT then it is what it is. The pictures after the Bama game says a lot about him as a person though.
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I'll meet you half-way and agree that, as a Vol fan, I hate that photo.
 
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