Good for Wendy's

[MercyPercy]

Crime rates are down. Mali's partially correct but we're really just training non-violent criminals to be more dangerous. With how much dope we've got everywhere right now, as soon as we try to crack down on it and heroin gets scarce crime is gonna skyrocket.

We've primed the country for a ****storm.

Yep. Put non-violent people in, and many come out hard with the skills to become career criminals. It's incredibly backwards.

 

[MercyPercy]

You do make a good point. Crime rates were soaring as the boomers became the majority of the 20-40 age group and declined after that. The exception being the early 90's when the inner cities were seeing massive turf wars over crack cocain.

It blows my mind though that lots of the boomers view the 60's and 70's as a time of peace and harmony.

opcorn:

 

[malinoisvol]

One more...

Mercy, this is actually a good read, if you are interested. It doesn't prove anyone's point, just a good read.

Mass Incarceration: The Whole Pie | Prison Policy Initiative

Off to bed, 3 am comes freakin' early.

 

[Weezer]

I am open to anyone here showing me why the statistics are wrong. If you can demonstrate that the numbers aren't representative of the truth, more power to you.

I'm sorry, but "trust me, I was there" is not objective evidence. I appreciate your honest opinions of those times, but everyone has their own personal biases and every single generation has a contingent of "back in my day" folks who look at those years through rosy shades. It's so common that it's impossible to accept those opinions as fact without empirical support.

Some things cannot be quantified into statistics.

 

[volbeast33]

You have not demonstrated how the statistics are devalued to the extent of what you're attempting to claim- that the figures are basically meaningless. Why don't you get your ducks in a row, find some figures, do some math, whatever you need to back up the argument you're trying to piece together here on the fly. Perhaps they are devalued some, but until you have anything other than conjecture, it's all really baseless.

I can't find anything I truly trust ...... I have found some that strongly supports my opinion and then researched a little farther and some makes it sound like the divide is as much as I think it is so I'm not sure.... It doesn't matter what I find, you wouldn't believe it anyways.... The fact that there is much more crime today than in 1960 is a fact that can't be argued... Crime rate is just total crimes committed divided by total population x 100,000. Do you not think that adding in the increased population that typically doesn't commit or have crimes committed against them makes the statistics a little shaded in one direction.

 

[MercyPercy]

Some things cannot be quantified into statistics.

Crime rate can be. Perception of crime can also be.

If you're saying back then you could leave your doors unlocked and feel safe, I get it. You certainly perceived you were much more safe. I'm not telling you how you felt. I'm just telling you the numbers often contradict people's perceptions, which was another study that Gallup did.

The media today is far more prevalent in reporting the horrible things that happen daily. That definitely could factor into people's perceptions.

 

[Weezer]

I am not arguing that we have a stronger sense of community today. I actually agree with that. But there are a million factors to consider.

History or whatever may focus on the bad...but the bad was so incredibly bad in the past that the good doesn't outweigh it in comparison to today.

Then factor in modern conveniences.

You focus on the bad, but fail to see the good. All the things that are better today, they have their origins in the past. As I said previously, change didn't happen overnight. And it was that sense of community that pushed people to fight for change. They wanted a better society. But is this really a better society? The fight for equality originally brought whites and blacks together, but in today's society, it seems the black community is pulling away from that group of unity. It's like every thing a white person does is motivated by race, which we all know is not true.

But I digress... There may be a million factors to consider, but which ones deserve more weight? That's for you to decide for yourself.

 

[Weezer]

Game of Thrones is coming on. I'll check back in later.

 

[MercyPercy]

I can't find anything I truly trust ...... I have found some that strongly supports my opinion and then researched a little farther and some makes it sound like the divide is as much as I think it is so I'm not sure.... It doesn't matter what I find, you wouldn't believe it anyways.... The fact that there is much more crime today than in 1960 is a fact that can't be argued... Crime rate is just total crimes committed divided by total population x 100,000. Do you not think that adding in the increased population that typically doesn't commit or have crimes committed against them makes the statistics a little shaded in one direction.

You do understand that has to do with the population increase.. right? That's why the rate is more indicative than the raw numbers.

This is simple stuff.

And please, don't start the "you wouldn't believe me even if I did" stuff. That's such a terrible excuse to not take the time to support your argument.

 

[apevol]

You do understand that has to do with the population increase.. right? That's why the rate is more indicative than the raw numbers.

This is simple stuff.

And please, don't start the "you wouldn't believe me even if I did" stuff. That's such a terrible excuse to not take the time to support your argument.

To be fair, just because there are more people doesn't mean its OK that the % is less. Horrible **** is happening in places it rarely did before.

 

[MercyPercy]

One more...

Mercy, this is actually a good read, if you are interested. It doesn't prove anyone's point, just a good read.

Mass Incarceration: The Whole Pie | Prison Policy Initiative

Off to bed, 3 am comes freakin' early.

I see that drug offenders make up the largest percentage of both state and federal prisons.

People cry about prisons releasing violent criminals early because of overpopulation. There's a pretty simple fix here.

 

[volbeast33]

You do understand that has to do with the population increase.. right? That's why the rate is more indicative than the raw numbers.

This is simple stuff.

And please, don't start the "you wouldn't believe me even if I did" stuff. That's such a terrible excuse to not take the time to support your argument.

yes and the biggest growth to that population is the 60 plus crowd, children, and prison population which drives down the crime rate.... I can't find the actual figures of children and the elderly in 1960 but you appear to be better at Google than me...... Those three things effect crime rate greatly.... I don't know how that can be argued.

 

[MercyPercy]

To be fair, just because there are more people doesn't mean its OK that the % is less. Horrible **** is happening in places it rarely did before.

It doesn't make it ok. But look at the violent crime rates in the past twenty years. Is it devalued some due to other factors? Could be. Probably is. But to the extent that it makes the drastic decline meaningless? Nah. The decline is far too significant.

And obviously, some areas are different than others. I'm not saying everywhere is better than it used to be crime wise. But on average, the country is not getting worse regarding crime. It's on a good trend.

 

[volbeast33]

It doesn't make it ok. But look at the violent crime rates in the past twenty years. Is it devalued some due to other factors? Could be. Probably is. But to the extent that it makes the drastic decline meaningless? Nah. The decline is far too significant.

And obviously, some areas are different than others. I'm not saying everywhere is better than it used to be crime wise. But on average, the country is not getting worse regarding crime. It's on a good trend.

I'm curious what changes do you think have been made to help the trend?

 

[MercyPercy]

I'm curious what changes do you think have been made to help the trend?

Longer prison sentences for violent criminals. Technology making it easier to catch violent criminals that wouldn't have gotten caught decades ago. More cops than there used to be. The abundance of youth programs today that keep kids off the streets and better educated about the "thug life". Crack not being as prevalent as it was, lessening some of the violence associated with the trade. Legalized abortion- less kids being brought into the world in terrible situations. And yes, changes in the population age demographics.

Of those, I'd guess the biggest factor is probably the technology.

 

[1972 Grad]

Crime rate can be. Perception of crime can also be.

If you're saying back then you could leave your doors unlocked and feel safe, I get it. You certainly perceived you were much more safe. I'm not telling you how you felt. I'm just telling you the numbers often contradict people's perceptions, which was another study that Gallup did.

The media today is far more prevalent in reporting the horrible things that happen daily. That definitely could factor into people's perceptions.

Here is my perception, and it IS reality. My hometown crime statistics from 2012 that I found showed my town had a violent crime rate that was higher than the national violent crime rate in 2012 by 96.04%. The property crime rate was higher than the national property crime rate by 132.1%.

The violent crime rate was 17.85% higher than the Tenn average, and the property crime rate was higher than the Tenn, average property crime rate by 96.84%. I have zero statistics from the 1950's and 60's, but it didn't use to be that way here. I blame most of it on drugs.

 

[ruger1234]

Longer prison sentences for violent criminals. Technology making it easier to catch violent criminals that wouldn't have gotten caught decades ago. More cops than there used to be. The abundance of youth programs today that keep kids off the streets and better educated about the "thug life". Crack not being as prevalent as it was, lessening some of the violence associated with the trade. Legalized abortion- less kids being brought into the world in terrible situations. And yes, changes in the population age demographics.

Of those, I'd guess the biggest factor is probably the technology.

All good points. I believe the big spike in population we saw with the boomer generation is finally past the age of crime.

I'm a 51 year old some say a boomer some say a gen x, either way when I play online video games I'm usually in the company of 15-30 year old males. I believe video games and online gaming have made a dent. Instead of running the roads looking for a thrill these kids are at home playing their video games. Last but not least is the rate of gun ownership and carry permits. Now the perps have to wonder whether their target is armed.

 

[ruger1234]

Here is my perception, and it IS reality. My hometown crime statistics from 2012 that I found showed my town had a violent crime rate that was higher than the national violent crime rate in 2012 by 96.04%. The property crime rate was higher than the national property crime rate by 132.1%.

The violent crime rate was 17.85% higher than the Tenn average, and the property crime rate was higher than the Tenn, average property crime rate by 96.84%. I have zero statistics from the 1950's and 60's, but it didn't use to be that way here. I blame most of it on drugs.

You need to move bro.

Blame it on the drugs all you want but it ain't the drugs. Prohibition maybe but not the drugs.

 

[AM64]

You do make a good point. Crime rates were soaring as the boomers became the majority of the 20-40 age group and declined after that. The exception being the early 90's when the inner cities were seeing massive turf wars over crack cocain.

It blows my mind though that lots of the boomers view the 60's and 70's as a time of peace and harmony.

Let's just say that every evening on the news we get the body count - number of overnight shootings and deaths. And the gang prevention initiatives that don't seem to be working. Now when you've watched the news over a period of 50-60 years you do tend to remember that it wasn't always that way; it used to be accidents and fires that made the headlines. Maybe the news just covered up those shootings and stabbings and beatings rather than being there live with all the gory detail so we would remember the good ole days as, well, the good ole days. Of course, those are just facts that aren't statistically normalized or corrected; so I suppose more people just means more bad apples, but then the statistics say differently - must be some real reform going on somewhere in the country - hard to say if it's in the criminal or the number crunching population.

If you do statistics related to total population and you just happen to neglect to mention an increasing portion (young and old) who are either incapable or highly unlikely to perpetrate a crime, then the numbers are dishonest - frequently distorted for political purposes - like how more police presence and spending might lead to less crime, so we should spend even more. But then we old guys can't remember real anecdotal facts to argue because we're just too old to remember clearly what some revisionist knows to be fact. Way to win by marginalizing one side of the argument as incompetent due to age.

 

[1972 Grad]

You need to move bro.


Blame it on the drugs all you want but it ain't the drugs. Prohibition maybe but not the drugs.

It's the drugs. They steal to support their habit. They assault old people while stealing their pain pills. They can't pass a drug test to get a job, or can't hold down a job, or don't want one. You can take up for them if you like.

I'm not talking about casual marijuana users. I'm talking primarily about meth, and pain pills.
Several have died of overdoses. I have talked to many in the building trade who can't keep a crew doing manual labor due to drug and pill use.
A roofer told me the other day that 3 of his crew of 7 showed up for work on Monday morning.

 

[apevol]

A lot of the property crime in small towns is the result of the local police letting their snitches out of jail as soon as they get in. They're snitching on other users and stealing to support their own habits and they're generally doing more of the stealing than the people they rat on

 

[ruger1234]

It's the drugs. They steal to support their habit. They assault old people while stealing their pain pills. They can't pass a drug test to get a job, or can't hold down a job, or don't want one. You can take up for them if you like.

I'm not talking about casual marijuana users. I'm talking primarily about meth, and pain pills.
Several have died of overdoses. I have talked to many in the building trade who can't keep a crew doing manual labor due to drug and pill use.
A roofer told me the other day that 3 of his crew of 7 showed up for work on Monday morning.

Well, throwing them in jail won't solve a thing. The problem is that's all we do. If they had a safer legal alternative like weed maybe they wouldn't get hooked on the pain pills. Maybe if we would rehab rather than jail they may be able to return to their functioning self.

 

[Weezer]

Caught up on the thread. So much about statistics being thrown around, it boggles one's mind. My thoughts and feelings are fairly simple. In the past, we had a larger sense of a unified community. People struggled together. We took care of each other. Race may have played a role on the larger scene, but not in my community. Black, white, Asian, it didn't matter. We were neighbors and we looked out for each other. That's become a rarity in today's society. Mistrust is being sewn into the fabric of every day life. People are programmed to doubt the intentions of others.

That said, there are certain things of our time I would not want to give up. I won't deny that. There are definitely some modern things that I would want to keep, but it's like we sold our souls to reach what we thought would be an ideal society and now we're stuck with buyer's remorse. Do you think someone like MLK would be happy with the perversion his dream has become? I just don't see it. So when I speak of the past, what I miss is the overall unity. It was the sense of belonging, of living without fear, because the community around you was there for you.

I blame a significant portion of today's problems on the media. So many years of broadcasting the ills of the world and fewer and fewer positive stories. I know it sounds silly, but when all you hear day after day is how bad things are, people believe and lose hope. They begin to stop caring because they fail to see the point in it.

 

[MercyPercy]

Here is my perception, and it IS reality. My hometown crime statistics from 2012 that I found showed my town had a violent crime rate that was higher than the national violent crime rate in 2012 by 96.04%. The property crime rate was higher than the national property crime rate by 132.1%.

The violent crime rate was 17.85% higher than the Tenn average, and the property crime rate was higher than the Tenn, average property crime rate by 96.84%. I have zero statistics from the 1950's and 60's, but it didn't use to be that way here. I blame most of it on drugs.

I already said some places got worse. That much is obvious. Saying on average that crime is going down doesn't mean every single town has less crime.

Interesting that you blame inanimate objects. Liberals like to blame inanimate objects too.

 

[Weezer]

Also, something casually referenced along the way but skimmed over, it seems a vast majority of crimes in the past were more confined to certain areas. Today, those crimes have trickled down into smaller communities that didn't necessarily experience those problems in the past.