Get real guys!

#126
#126
Brasszilla said:
i think that formula is far from proven. georgia has made 1 hire since richt so they don't apply to this situation. chizk left auburn because they were about to get roasted by ncaa for bribing players so again not the same situation. and like georgia, texas is on its second hire since brown. none of your examples actually support your claim that its a proven formula to hire and fire every 3-4 years
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Chizik left Auburn because he wasn't allowed to come back.
 
#129
#129
Heres a crazy stat I found today...

Phillip Fulmers worst 4 yr stretch was 29-21. That got him fired and he had won a NC and the SEC.

4 years of Butch has resulted in a record of 30-21.

He hasnt accomplished a single thing and people that think his record isnt good enough are considered "negavols"??

Really?

Im still on the Butch train because I know its the only ride in town for now but to call people that arent content with what weve seen so far "negavols" is ridiculous imo.
 
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#130
#130
Brasszilla said:
i think that formula is far from proven. georgia has made 1 hire since richt so they don't apply to this situation.
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Go back and look before Richt.
chizk left auburn because they were about to get roasted by ncaa for bribing players so again not the same situation. and like georgia, texas is on its second hire since brown. none of your examples actually support your claim that its a proven formula to hire and fire every 3-4 years
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Yeah... they pretty much do. Find ANY P5 championship program and you are going to see that they fire coaches after 3 or 4 years if they don't meet expectations. They also fire established coaches who fail to meet the standard they themselves set for 3-5 years. See Richt and Brown.

Your proof against this is to find a championship program that didn't fire coaches in the way I suggest.

Even Washington did it.
 
#131
#131
tvolsfan said:
The point is those programs were going through a rough patch with multiple failed coaches and that in no way prevented them from finding a competent/elite coach. The idea that letting Butch fail for another 3 years will benefit us during our next coaching search is flat out wrong.



Of course not. Nobody is saying otherwise. However, keeping a mediocre coach does guarantee you won't win anything meaningful.
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where have i ever said that i'm letting butch fail for another 3 years?? i'm making the statement that if you don't show a little loyalty and patience with coaches past 3 years, big names will continue to withdraw from consideration.
 
#132
#132
Brasszilla said:
where have i ever said that i'm letting butch fail for another 3 years?? i'm making the statement that if you don't show a little loyalty and patience with coaches past 3 years, big names will continue to withdraw from consideration.
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He's still employed, right?
 
#133
#133
A little bit of a rant... but I will always be on the positive side supporting for the Vols and hoping that one day we unseat the Tide and win another NC. Life is too short to complain about everything and most of what we can't control.

Go Vols!!
 
#134
#134
KingtUT said:
Where you ready to fire Fulmer?
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Hell, in the final years of Fulmer's time, this fanbase seemed split straight down the middle; half trying to still trust him, and the other half just fed up with his excuses and passing the buck.

If you want to make a saint outta him in your mind, go ahead, but don't think every last poster here shares your admiration.
 
#135
#135
TNnative said:
Hell, in the final years of Fulmer's time, this fanbase seemed split straight down the middle; half trying to still trust him, and the other half just fed up with his excuses and passing the buck.

If you want to make a saint outta him in your mind, go ahead, but don't think every last poster here shares your admiration.
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WTH are you talking about? lol
 
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#136
#136
sjt18 said:
Go back and look before Richt.

Yeah... they pretty much do. Find ANY P5 championship program and you are going to see that they fire coaches after 3 or 4 years if they don't meet expectations. They also fire established coaches who fail to meet the standard they themselves set for 3-5 years. See Richt and Brown.

Your proof against this is to find a championship program that didn't fire coaches in the way I suggest.

Even Washington did it.
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dude georgia has had 5 coaches since 1964. and again, texas is only 2 coaches removed from long tenure of mack brown. both situations show support from admin and not a revolving door of head coaches.
 
#137
#137
Brasszilla said:
where have i ever said that i'm letting butch fail for another 3 years?? i'm making the statement that if you don't show a little loyalty and patience with coaches past 3 years, big names will continue to withdraw from consideration.
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Why would a good coach look at Dooleys 3 years here and say "mark them off the list they should have give him more time". Or Kiffin left to go back to USC (most would agree is a better job) he obviously didn't like being at UT?
 
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#139
#139
JACK8254 said:
SOME of the people on this board think that an SEC championship is their birthright as a Vol fan. They cite our big stadium , rich history , committed fanbase ( many of whom should be) and rake Jones over the coals cause we are not there yet. They conveniently overlook that Fla, LSU and Bama have won MULTIPLE ncS SINCE 98 when we did. They have just as much money, fan support , pay their coaches as much if not more than we do. Fla,LSU, and Texas A&M all lost at least 4 games this year and their fans , though unhappy, are not ready to panic. grow up and deal with the fact that Sabans run at Bama is a once every 40-50 year freak occurrence and as long as he remains there, no one can unseat him and the redneck Tide . As Clay Travis has said" the other 13 teams would be better off if they each gave 3 million to a fund used to bribe Saban not to coach" Short of that - we will all be playing for second place . Histrionics and whining are pointless. So- get off Butchs back and remember how the Dooley saga found new and unique ways to make our football lives painful. Oh the humanity.
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To win a SEC Title, we have to be there in Atlanta to play for one..... That is our birthright. To play in Atlanta for a chance to win the Title. And it doesn't help when this division has been the easiest to win in this century and we keep laying goose eggs.... Of course that is what happens with this coaching staff.
 
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#141
#141
BeecherVol said:
Why would a good coach look at Dooleys 3 years here and say "mark them off the list they should have give him more time". Or Kiffin left to go back to USC (most would agree is a better job) he obviously didn't like being at UT?
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you have to step back from the painting to see the full picture. you can't look just a dooley or a specific situation because there a lot of variables and extenuating circumstances with each one. but if we fire butch next year, itll 5 coaches in 10-11 years. it is not a good mark to have and says it all about this being an unstable situation.
 
#142
#142
KingtUT said:
Heres a crazy stat I found today...

Phillip Fulmers worst 4 yr stretch was 29-21. That got him fired and he had won a NC and the SEC.

4 years of Butch has resulted in a record of 30-21.

He hasnt accomplished a single thing and people that think his record isnt good enough are considered "negavols"??
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Fulmer was HC the 13 years proceeding the 29-21 record. The 8 years prior to the 29-21 records, Fulmer was 80-22. What got him fired was the steady progression downward from winning 78% of the games to winning 51% of the games.

The 8 years prior to Jones being hired Tennessee was 50-48 under 3 different head coaches. The current percentage progression is an upward trend.

I get that it is not where it could have been if several games that were winnable had been won - but it is an upward progression. (42% ... 75%).
 
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#143
#143
sjt18 said:
Go back and look before Richt.

Yeah... they pretty much do. Find ANY P5 championship program and you are going to see that they fire coaches after 3 or 4 years if they don't meet expectations. They also fire established coaches who fail to meet the standard they themselves set for 3-5 years. See Richt and Brown.

Your proof against this is to find a championship program that didn't fire coaches in the way I suggest.

Even Washington did it.
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I am sure if you dig into many of the changes made before, you will find situations where the firings were due to more than fan dissatisfaction. Some were done in response to NCAA investigations, and most we will never know because we weren't there to witness the meetings behind closed doors.

Yeah, it is going to happen, but I will never be a supporter of firing a coach just because he did not win a division/conference/national title. My satisfaction with the direction of the program has little to do with the trophy room.
 
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#145
#145
Brasszilla said:
you have to step back from the painting to see the full picture. you can't look just a dooley or a specific situation because there a lot of variables and extenuating circumstances with each one. but if we fire butch next year, itll 5 coaches in 10-11 years. it is not a good mark to have and says it all about this being an unstable situation.
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When you put 4 coaches out there as part of this revolving door missing loyalty and at minimum 2 of those dont fit how do you expect someone to reply?

Fulmer is almost 10 years removed from a 16 year career that proceeded a 15 year career for Majors. He would be the most questionable of the bunch because he actually had some equity here. But he had also ran his course here. Similar to Spurrier at UF and USC after a decade and less.

Kiffin didn't get fired.

Dooley didn't get fired for being a mediocre coach that needed more time to get past 9 wins and win a division title. Everyone knew he sucked. Including the coaching community.

The reason its unstable is the coaches that have been hired.
 
#146
#146
volfan102455 said:
No. I think he should have had at least 1 more year to try to right the ship.
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I just wonder how many people that were ready to fire Fulmer are now supporting Butch. I cant imagine there are many.

Id guess that a very high majority of the people ready to fire Fulmer are the same ones ready to cut Butch loose too. Very high percentage.. 80 plus?
 
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#147
#147
Brasszilla said:
dude georgia has had 5 coaches since 1964. and again, texas is only 2 coaches removed from long tenure of mack brown. both situations show support from admin and not a revolving door of head coaches.
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Again, find the top programs that tolerated an underperforming coach for more than 3 or 4 years that had THAT COACH lead them to championships.

Oh btw "dude"... Vince Dooley and Richt both won the SEC within 3 years of being hired and a second conference crown within 5 years. Dooley won a NC. Their tenures make up 40 of the 52 years since 1964.

The other three coaches... avg'd 4 years in the job. Thank you for illustrating my point.
 
#148
#148
Brasszilla said:
where have i ever said that i'm letting butch fail for another 3 years?? i'm making the statement that if you don't show a little loyalty and patience with coaches past 3 years, big names will continue to withdraw from consideration.
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OK. Prove it. Show one big name program that couldn't hire a big name after firing a coach who posted a subpar performance in 4 or fewer years.

You've made a concrete claim. Can you substantiate it?
 
#149
#149
Brasszilla said:
you have to step back from the painting to see the full picture. you can't look just a dooley or a specific situation because there a lot of variables and extenuating circumstances with each one. but if we fire butch next year, itll 5 coaches in 10-11 years. it is not a good mark to have and says it all about this being an unstable situation.
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If Jones wins less than 8 regular season games and is fired then what it will say is that a guy was given 5 years and a VERY fair chance to succeed and couldn't. Further, it will say that while UT shows patience (5 years is plenty patient) the expectations are high.

Also.... there will still be enough talent on the roster for a top name coach to know they can step in and compete without a total rebuild. Keep Jones for 2 more years much less 3 or 4 with the way recruiting is going... then you will have a real problem hiring a big name.
 
#150
#150
JACK8254 said:
The lord works in mysterious ways- Still wish we had won the east. Maybe this year. in 98 after Manning left, almost no one gave us a chance to win the NC. Ya never know. I think we were #11 preseason in the 98 Coaches poll.
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Team 121 may never see the top 25, considering the players lost to the NFL, the cupboard for 2017 will be somewhat bare:eek:hmy:
 
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