Get real guys!

#76
#76
JACK8254 said:
SOME of the people on this board think that an SEC championship is their birthright as a Vol fan. They cite our big stadium , rich history , committed fanbase ( many of whom should be) and rake Jones over the coals cause we are not there yet. They conveniently overlook that Fla, LSU and Bama have won MULTIPLE ncS SINCE 98 when we did. They have just as much money, fan support , pay their coaches as much if not more than we do. Fla,LSU, and Texas A&M all lost at least 4 games this year and their fans , though unhappy, are not ready to panic. grow up and deal with the fact that Sabans run at Bama is a once every 40-50 year freak occurrence and as long as he remains there, no one can unseat him and the redneck Tide . As Clay Travis has said" the other 13 teams would be better off if they each gave 3 million to a fund used to bribe Saban not to coach" Short of that - we will all be playing for second place . Histrionics and whining are pointless. So- get off Butchs back and remember how the Dooley saga found new and unique ways to make our football lives painful. Oh the humanity.
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You do know how much of a loser's attitude you just expected, right?

"Might as well not try since we have no chance of succeeding anyway".

That's pathetic.
 
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#77
#77
bleedorange0037 said:
By his fourth year, Fulmer was beating everyone in the conference except for a UF team that was one of the best teams of the 90's. By Butch's fourth year he can't even beat Vanderbilt. Just a bit of difference between those two.
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Majors was not fired because of his won-loss record. Fulmer stepped into an unbelievable situation and took advantage of it. He run was one of the best in the SEC and the Nation at that time. Those situations seldom present themselves.
 
#78
#78
Evet Vols said:
Yes - Butch has had a tougher road than Phil surely you aren't stupid enough to not be able to see that. Butch is competing with everyone now and has beat everyone except Bama.

Michigan couldn't win their division and lost to a lousy Iowa team on the road - Fire Harbaugh.
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Last I checked, Harbaugh isn't in his forth year at Michigan. If they're 8-4 two years from now, people will start having doubts. Also, what about our matchup with Bama this season could be defined as competing? Also, explain how has he "beat everyone" except Bama when he's lost to Auburn, Ole Miss, Arkansas and aTm and schedule has mercifully spared him of LSU so far.

I'll concede that Butch started in a bad place, but by this point any and all roster failures fall completely at his feet. No more blaming Dooley. He recruited and coached every single player on this team that wasn't good enough to beat Vanderbilt four years into his tenure.
 
#80
#80
FlyFishnVol said:
But Fulmer got his @ss kicked in 2 possible NC games, and his 98 team came out ranked #11.......so.....he only had the best team + a Hall of Fame QB and couldn't bring it home. Butch's teams and Fulmer's teams are not comparable, but Fulmer laid the biggest egg.
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Jones can't win an east that doesn't have Spurrier or Richt in it and you re throwing rocks at Fulmer. Lol

Gotta love it.
 
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#81
#81
FlyFishnVol said:
I don't understand how anyone feels that a coaching carousel at UT is going to attract any coaches........it makes no sense.
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I don't understand how anyone feels that losing to Vanderbilt every other season is going to attract anyone, athletes, coaches or donors........it makes no sense.
 
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#82
#82
JACK8254 said:
I LIKE your attitude. I really do. I was for hanging Butch after the Sc game , so I can see how people get so angry. But - who you gonna get? Even Petrino ( he of the bad karma) lost badly at seasons end. There aint no Supercoaches out there that would come here and endure the criticism and pissin and moaning from our fans. Not gonna happen.
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It isn't about anger. It is about having standards and demanding they're met. If you've ever been part of a successful business, team, group,.... competitive effort of any kind... you know that you take the emotion out when it comes to the standard you expect. When you allow emotions to start creeping in, you start allowing excuses for failure. You start making rash decisions in both directions.

THAT is what you're doing and what WAY too many here do.

The simple fact is that Jones failed to meet very, very reasonable expectations for this team EVEN once the difficulties are factored in. Not by just a little.... but by losing to the two least talented teams in the SEC.... teams with mid-major level talent.

As for "supercoaches"... two points. One, there are some out there waiting to emerge just like Saban, Meyer, Carroll, Spurrier, etc did. Two, most aren't criticizing Jones because he failed to meet some "supercoach" standard. He has failed to be "average" over these four years when it comes to coaching. In each year, he has dropped at least one game he should have won. He's done so 3 times in each of the last two seasons. He has only one upset win in his tenure.

He has allowed trends in injuries and attrition to go without effective correction. His first OL was made up of holdovers from Dooley. They took a step back. None of the last 3 have been good. UT had one of the most mobile QB's in the conference this year and was 8th in sacks allowed. That simply isn't what you should expect in a coach's 4th year while he keeps the same S&C staff/philosophy and OL coach.

If Jones ever becomes an "average" SEC coach then we can debate whether it is reasonable to expect him to be compared to the "supercoach" standard. Right now, he isn't close. His only saving grace has been better than expected recruiting but even that is falling off now.
 
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#83
#83
The Tall Gguy said:
I think if we had beat USCe and Vandy, most everyone would have been satisfied with this season.
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Of course. At least any reasonable person would. We would have been 10-2, won the East, gone to the Sugar Bowl, and basically accomplished every realistic goal set for the season. Instead we beat neither, won nothing but a Championship of Life, and went to the Music ****ty Bowl.
 
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#84
#84
FlyFishnVol said:
I don't understand how anyone feels that a coaching carousel at UT is going to attract any coaches........it makes no sense.
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Primarily because that's what the programs at the top have done. Bama kept hiring and firing until they found Saban. OSU didn't accept a lower standard. USCw did it for years, found Carroll, and are now doing it again. Texas has done it. ND is doing it.

If you accept mediocrity then that's what you get. If you accept it to the point that your roster is destroyed THEN you'll struggle to get good coaches to apply. NO good coach ever looks at a job and says, "I better not take that job since the last guy was fired for not meeting expectations". If they see a good opportunity with a talented roster and support then anyone worth hiring will have the confidence to believe they can succeed where the last guy failed.

The very real danger posed by excusing Jones and giving him "more time" is that recruiting will continue to decline and by the time action is taken... the job will be a major rebuild that the top coaches want no part of.
 
#85
#85
Weezer said:
If mediocrity makes you happy, then by all means, enjoy it, but don't expect other Tennessee fans to accept mediocrity as a given. We can be great, but if you don't expect greatness, you'll never achieve it.
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This should be stickied to the top of the forum...
 
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#86
#86
sjt18 said:
It isn't about anger. It is about having standards and demanding they're met. If you've ever been part of a successful business, team, group,.... competitive effort of any kind... you know that you take the emotion out when it comes to the standard you expect. When you allow emotions to start creeping in, you start allowing excuses for failure. You start making rash decisions in both directions.

THAT is what you're doing and what WAY too many here do.

The simple fact is that Jones failed to meet very, very reasonable expectations for this team EVEN once the difficulties are factored in. Not by just a little.... but by losing to the two least talented teams in the SEC.... teams with mid-major level talent.

As for "supercoaches"... two points. One, there are some out there waiting to emerge just like Saban, Meyer, Carroll, Spurrier, etc did. Two, most aren't criticizing Jones because he failed to meet some "supercoach" standard. He has failed to be "average" over these four years when it comes to coaching. In each year, he has dropped at least one game he should have won. He's done so 3 times in each of the last two seasons. He has only one upset win in his tenure.

He has allowed trends in injuries and attrition to go without effective correction. His first OL was made up of holdovers from Dooley. They took a step back. None of the last 3 have been good. UT had one of the most mobile QB's in the conference this year and was 8th in sacks allowed. That simply isn't what you should expect in a coach's 4th year while he keeps the same S&C staff/philosophy and OL coach.

If Jones ever becomes an "average" SEC coach then we can debate whether it is reasonable to expect him to be compared to the "supercoach" standard. Right now, he isn't close. His only saving grace has been better than expected recruiting but even that is falling off now.
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While that is all spot on, I'd suggest using notepad/copy paste feature....that's a hell of a lot to retype and post in 75% of the threads on the first page !
 
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#90
#90
volfan102455 said:
The East was dominate in the first 6 years that Fulmer coached and Florida for all practical purposes was the team to beat. Beat them - win the SEC. Even in the 6th year when he won his first title he lost to Florida. Florida lost to LSU and Georgia that year giving the title to Tennessee. Fulmer did not beat Florida until year 7.

It was a very different SEC with the west not as strong and the weaker east teams still the weaker east teams.

The whole point is that based on the criteria that someone posted earlier - Fulmer would have been fired before he won the SEC if he was held to the same standards that some want Tennessee coaches to be held to currently. And it would have been stupid to fire him just like it is stupid to consider firing CBJ after back to back 9 win seasons.
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It was. Actually from 1993-2008 The east won the SEC 11 times. That stretch included Spurrier and Meyer (which also won 3 NCs between the 2) and Richt that won the SEC twice during Fulmer's tenure. Since Fulmer left, the West has won the SEC every year and on average by a pretty wide margin.

As far as Fulmer and the criteria. Fulmer went 7-1 in the SEC 3 of his first 4 years. His only loses were to UF which won the conference all 3 of those years and a NC in one of them. His odd year was a 8-4 (5-3) with a FR QB. Heck, during the stretch that got him fired he had a 9 and 10 win season and won the east. While Fulmer had some missed chances early and in the middle (before he got complacent) firing him after 4 years wouldn't compare to firing Jones after 4 years giving the facts of the east during both times.
 
#91
#91
We Should be competing year in and year out for the east with UGA & UF. No reason to lose to Vandy or SCar very often. We have an elite university in a great city, as long as we don't sit on our hands or wallets we should be extremely competitive.
 
#92
#92
chattavol420 said:
Did you just say that lsu lost 4 games this year but didn't panic? Uh...they fired their coach this season. After less than a quarter of the year complete. And that guy by the way averaged about 9 wins a year. I think expecting Butch to win the weakest sece with the best talent we've had in a decade wasn't all that crazy. I'd say we are pretty "real"
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I don't read a panic in what LSU did. This had been building for some time. Powers that be finally had had enough. I think they thought that things could not get much worse for this year and decided to move on.
 
#93
#93
bleedorange0037 said:
Last I checked, Harbaugh isn't in his forth year at Michigan. If they're 8-4 two years from now, people will start having doubts. Also, what about our matchup with Bama this season could be defined as competing? Also, explain how has he "beat everyone" except Bama when he's lost to Auburn, Ole Miss, Arkansas and aTm and schedule has mercifully spared him of LSU so far.

I'll concede that Butch started in a bad place, but by this point any and all roster failures fall completely at his feet. No more blaming Dooley. He recruited and coached every single player on this team that wasn't good enough to beat Vanderbilt four years into his tenure.
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I guess I should have said beat everyone of the permanent annual schedule besides Bama. My point was every team can drop a game here or there that is why the games are played.
 
#94
#94
bleedorange0037 said:
I don't understand how anyone feels that losing to Vanderbilt every other season is going to attract anyone, athletes, coaches or donors........it makes no sense.
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I doubt more than 1-2% of the people on this board believe losing to Vandy ever is a good thing. I think you have a good number of folks who are tired of getting a new coach. Remember before Kiffin, UT had 2 coaches in 32 years (1977 - 2008) - one of which was promoted off of Majors' staff in Fulmer. We've had 3 coaches the last 8 years. I really think everyone wants to win big. Some are hoping that Butch can get us there. Others are ready for coach #4. Bammer went through two dud coaches from 1983 until 1990 before they finally got Stallings for 6 or 7 seasons. They went through it again with 3 duds and 1 mediocre HC between 1997- 2007. They were fortunate enough to win an SEC Championship I believe in 1999, the year we beat them with one of our most talented teams ever but couldn't beat the Hogs in Fayetteville to get another shot at beating them twice in one season. Losing with our tradition sucks.
 
#95
#95
tvolsfan said:
Whether people like to admit it or not, a big part of that is we don't dump coaches when we should.
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Moron. It is idiots like you who want to keep a revolving door in the coach's office. It's a good way to never hire anyone of worth if you never give them a chance. Who exactly is knocking down our door? Hmmm? Who? Quit ruining everything good you 1980's douche villain.
 
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#97
#97
I along with a number of other Vol fans used to think beating Vanderbilt was a "birthright".

Jones sure has educated us on that count.

It's downright insulting to the players on this team to say they were better off not winning the SEC East and making the championship game as well. Regardless of the outcome, the seniors and players leaving early deserved that experience.
 
#98
#98
Smokeyman said:
Moron. It is idiots like you who want to keep a revolving door in the coach's office. It's a good way to never hire anyone of worth if you never give them a chance. Who exactly is knocking down our door? Hmmm? Who? Quit ruining everything good you 1980's douche villain.
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We just lost to Vandy for the second time in four seasons. There's not very much good to ruin.

Did the revolving door of coaches prior to his hiring impede Bama too much when they decided to go after Saban? The reason nobody is knocking down our door is because since Fulmer left, UT has always wanted to go bargain hunting when looking for a coach. If it were clear UT wanted a winner and was willing to pay accordingly, I suspect there would be interest.
 
#99
#99
Negas are actually the only ones who aspire to something greater. Everyone else is just resigned to the fact that the glory days are gone and we are a fair to middling SEC team. Middle of the pack is where it's at I guess.
 
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#100
#100
sona said:
Negas are actually the only ones who aspire to something greater. Everyone else is just resigned to the fact that the glory days are gone and we are a fair to middling SEC team. Middle of the pack is where it's at I guess.
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Not true. I think we all aspire to greatness. We just have different opinions on how and the timeline to get there.

Negas are very impatient. Everyone else has a different level of patience. Negas thinks the years of decline should have been fixed with 1 hire in 1 year. Everyone else understands that a fix that will last takes time.
 
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