Gerrymandering in Virginia

#602
#602
LouderVol said:
how is not yelling "fire" in a public space a property rights issue?
how is slander/libel a property right issue?
its well established that the government can punish you for those.

are you confusing two different issues here?
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Not in the least.

Yelling “fire in the theater” in and of itself is not illegal/restricted speech, if for no other reason that there are times when it clearly is not (e.g., when there is indeed a fire in the theater).

But “fire” is not some verboten phrase, rightfully restricted by the State. Yell “bear” or “snake” instead of “fire” and you may still find yourself in violation of:
- The theater owners property rights as you have disrupted his going concern
- The fellow movie goers property rights that suffer injury to themselves (the ultimate property right) in the ensuing panic

Language that infringes on others’ property rights (the what and when) is the issue.

Not “restricted speech” which is nothing but a canard put forth, usually by statists.

Libel/Slander is pretty straightforward, you can probably figure that out on your own.
 
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#603
#603
I guess Virginia should just do what Republican state legislatures do and ignore this ruling and use the maps anyway.
 
#604
#604
85SugarVol said:
Not in the least.

Yelling “fire in the theater” in and of itself is not illegal/restricted speech, if for no other reason that there are times when it clearly is not (e.g., when there is indeed a fire in the theater).

But “fire” is not some verboten phrase, rightfully restricted by the State. Yell “bear” or “snake” instead of “fire” and you may still find yourself in violation of:
- The theater owners property rights as you have disrupted his going concern
- The fellow movie goers property rights that suffer injury to themselves (the ultimate property right) in the ensuing panic

Language that infringes on others’ property rights (the what and when) is the issue.

Not “restricted speech” which is nothing but a canard put forth, usually by statists.

Libel/Slander is pretty straightforward, you can probably figure that out on your own.
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all of those are infringements. which was my point all along. No right is absolute, which is why its bs to go after voting because its not absolute if you are also unwilling to apply the same restrictions to gun rights which are also not absolute. its the same logic used to defend the 2A against gun grabbing Dems.

Hog was the one saying there wasn't any restrictions on speech. well after he previously said there was. which was after he said there wasn't.

I will fight on whatever hill doesn't recognize an equal application of our rights. paying taxes/owning land isn't a qualifier for any other right, so I don't see why it should apply to voting when it comes to voting being a right. we fought to separate ourselves from the idea of a landed gentry class that ruled over the rest, it should remain that way.
 
#605
#605
LouderVol said:
all of those are infringements. which was my point all along. No right is absolute, which is why its bs to go after voting because its not absolute if you are also unwilling to apply the same restrictions to gun rights which are also not absolute. its the same logic used to defend the 2A against gun grabbing Dems.

Hog was the one saying there wasn't any restrictions on speech. well after he previously said there was. which was after he said there wasn't.

I will fight on whatever hill doesn't recognize an equal application of our rights. paying taxes/owning land isn't a qualifier for any other right, so I don't see why it should apply to voting when it comes to voting being a right. we fought to separate ourselves from the idea of a landed gentry class that ruled over the rest, it should remain that way.
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There is no restriction on “speech” though, only on injurious harms done to others property.
 
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#606
#606
The rule of law has prevailed in Virginia. Both the mighty Governess and the incompetent Attorney General of Virginia got it wrong. This was a massive failure of Her Governess. They tried to illegally disenfranchise 50% of the voters in Virginia. She failed to get proper legal advice.

The Supreme Court of Virginia invalidated a voter-approved redistricting referendum on Friday, ruling that lawmakers failed to follow the constitutional process required to place the measure on the ballot and halting Democrat-led efforts to implement a new congressional map.

Virginia Supreme Court blocks redistricting referendum​

The state Supreme Court majority held that state lawmakers acted too late when they approved the amendment proposal.
 
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#608
#608
85SugarVol said:
There is no restriction on “speech” though, only on injurious harms done to others property.
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and you think taking away people's voting rights won't cause injurious harms? That would be far more damaging than harmful speech.
 
#609
#609
LouderVol said:
and you think taking away people's voting rights won't cause injurious harms? That would be far more damaging than harmful speech.
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You your usually spun up self this morning? I haven’t said anything with regards to voting.
 
#610
#610
This proves that Virginia's methods and laws are the standard of the country. There is a reason that the Commonwealth has been the longest continuous democratic institution in the world. Its Constitution is a model that the rest of the states in the Union should follow.
 
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#611
#611
KB5252 said:
Similar outrage rage for places like Virginia? Other Northeast states for their similar endeavors to stifle their political opponents voices and representation?

If not your words are empty and you really aren't all that different from MAGA where rubber meets road.
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The voters decided in Virginia. In TN, they stripped the power from the people. They are not similar situations and the fact that you don’t recognize the difference is very telling. Clearly, you prefer to be led around on a leash like a good little MAGA bitch.
 
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#612
#612
TN Ribs said:
The voters decided in Virginia. In TN, they stripped the power from the people. They are not similar situations and the fact that you don’t recognize the difference is very telling.
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No the voters did not decide. The Governess of Virginia failed to follow the rule of law and the recent vote was nullified by the Virginia Supreme Court. The drafters of Virginia's Constitution knew what they were doing.
 
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#616
#616
FortSanders said:
The rule of law has prevailed in Virginia. Both the mighty Governess and the incompetent Attorney General of Virginia got it wrong. This was a massive failure of Her Governess. They tried to illegally disenfranchise 50% of the voters in Virginia. She failed to get proper legal advice.

The Supreme Court of Virginia invalidated a voter-approved redistricting referendum on Friday, ruling that lawmakers failed to follow the constitutional process required to place the measure on the ballot and halting Democrat-led efforts to implement a new congressional map.

Virginia Supreme Court blocks redistricting referendum​

The state Supreme Court majority held that state lawmakers acted too late when they approved the amendment proposal.
Click to expand...

So "activist judges" are good now?
 
#619
#619
BeardedVol said:
4-3 decision split down party lines.

I guess it can only be "activism" if it had been 4-3 in the other direction?
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The state constitution is pretty self-explanatory on this issue...

"Activists" don't follow the laws in place, Constitutionalists do....hope that helps

Looks like this whole attempt has severely backfired for the CIA chick and her many tax lovers
 
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#621
#621
hog88 said:
I don't get why he's having a hard time understanding this simple concept.
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It’s a fallacious canard that’s been thrust forward by statists to justify speech suppression for over 100 years. “Fire in the theater!” is engrained, and dupes many.

It’s right up there with “who would build the roads!?”….
 
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#622
#622
FortSanders said:
This proves that Virginia's methods and laws are the standard of the country. There is a reason that the Commonwealth has been the longest continuous democratic institution in the world. Its Constitution is a model that the rest of the states in the Union should follow.
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Not disagreeing with you overall point; but just want to give credit where it is due. The oldest elected legislature in the world that still operates is in Iceland and goes all the way back to 930.
en.wikipedia.org

Althing - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
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#623
#623
TN Ribs said:
The voters decided in Virginia. In TN, they stripped the power from the people. They are not similar situations and the fact that you don’t recognize the difference is very telling. Clearly, you prefer to be led around on a leash like a good little MAGA bitch.
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You do understand the distinct between direct democracy and representative democracy don’t you?
The founders clearly chose the latter to shield the republic from hasty and emotional decisions by the mob.
 
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#624
#624
KB5252 said:
Similar outrage rage for places like Virginia? Other Northeast states for their similar endeavors to stifle their political opponents voices and representation?

If not your words are empty and you really aren't all that different from MAGA where rubber meets road.
Click to expand...

VA and TN are grotesque maps.

Again, how is the Northeast bad? Vermont has 1 red county in the entire state. Mass and Rhode Island have 0. CT has 2. Unless there's some absolute crazy boundaries, these states should be 0 Rs (absent a horrible D nominee).

NH and ME should have competitive races but even at best, those are lean D...
 
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