Gap Scheme question...

#26
#26
General Jack said:
Welcome, post more.

Is there a current or recent major college program or NFL franchise that is running the gap scheme with resounding success?
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Niners, Patriots, Vikings, and Seahawks all use the power set which uses this blocking scheme quite a bit. About half the teams in the nfl use it pretty regularly I would say.
 
#28
#28
volnation2217 said:
Niners, Patriots, Vikings, and Seahawks all use the power set which uses this blocking scheme quite a bit. About half the teams in the nfl use it pretty regularly I would say.
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exactly...when you think of gap scheme just think power/counter. A lot of good running teams are zone but are good because they are diversified and incorporate multiple gap schemes.
 
#30
#30
Hopefully the diagrams will give some people an idea of what type of discipline and skill these kids are trying to develop. Keep in mind in the real world those Def players are also accelerating quickly in the fraction of a second the Off linemen have to recognize and commit to their assignment.
 
#31
#31
volnation2217 said:
Niners, Patriots, Vikings, and Seahawks all use the power set which uses this blocking scheme quite a bit. About half the teams in the nfl use it pretty regularly I would say.
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Not entirely true. Seahawks are basically all zone blocking. Not much gap at all.

Teams like Georgia, LSU, and Stanford, among many others, primarily use the gap schemes in CFB.
 
#32
#32
Grappler said:
First time poster but long time lurker so don't be too hard on me. But I will give you an answer as an O-Line coach.

Gap Schemes: Are typical plays Power, Counter, and Trap. First Power, play side linemen block down (each takes the Gap toward the center, the center takes the backside 'A' gap) and creates a wall, then a back kicks out the last man on the line, this can be the Fullback, H-Back, a motioning WR etc. Back side Guard will pull and wrap around the wall to the first linebacker he sees, backside Tackle will step to the Center to help fill for the puller. Next Counter, play side linemen block down (just like power), now the back side Guard kicks out, Fullback, H-Back wraps up the wall, backside Tackle steps to the Center to help fill for the puller. On Counter Trey the backside Guard still kicks out the backside Tackle will wrap and the Fullback, H-Back will fill for the pulling linemen. On Trap we turn loose the first down lineman past the Guard, Center and play side Guard will block down, play side Tackle will block the first linebacker inside, backside Guard will pull and kick out the free D-Lineman.

Gap Schemes in a nutshell.

Zone Schemes are different and are more based on the running back reading the right crease to get vertical. A running back who does not read the right crease will make the O-Line look like a bunch of chumps.

This post already is rather long so if you want I can explain Zone Schemes later.

Grappler
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Good post, but is there going to be a test on this ?
 
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#33
#33
@volstopfan14, @ General Jack Thanks

The Redskins of the 80's started running the power and counter to compliment their Inside and Outside Zone play. They were running Inside and Outside Zone when no one really knew what it was. I would guess all Pro teams run at least Power and most Counter as well for the same reason the Redskins did.

Stanford is an excellent Power, Counter team they specialize in it whereas Oregon, Alabama, Auburn are more Zone teams.
 
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#34
#34
Grappler said:
First time poster but long time lurker so don't be too hard on me. But I will give you an answer as an O-Line coach.

Gap Schemes: Are typical plays Power, Counter, and Trap. First Power, play side linemen block down (each takes the Gap toward the center, the center takes the backside 'A' gap) and creates a wall, then a back kicks out the last man on the line, this can be the Fullback, H-Back, a motioning WR etc. Back side Guard will pull and wrap around the wall to the first linebacker he sees, backside Tackle will step to the Center to help fill for the puller. Next Counter, play side linemen block down (just like power), now the back side Guard kicks out, Fullback, H-Back wraps up the wall, backside Tackle steps to the Center to help fill for the puller. On Counter Trey the backside Guard still kicks out the backside Tackle will wrap and the Fullback, H-Back will fill for the pulling linemen. On Trap we turn loose the first down lineman past the Guard, Center and play side Guard will block down, play side Tackle will block the first linebacker inside, backside Guard will pull and kick out the free D-Lineman.

Gap Schemes in a nutshell.

Zone Schemes are different and are more based on the running back reading the right crease to get vertical. A running back who does not read the right crease will make the O-Line look like a bunch of chumps.

This post already is rather long so if you want I can explain Zone Schemes later.

Grappler
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Thx. Its awesome to learn more about what we are seeing.
 
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#37
#37
So if other programs are running with success, why are we failing? I'm assuming its not because of the scheme inherently.

1) Worley isn't a threat to run?
2) Hurd and Lane aren't the right type of RB?
3) Offensive line isn't experienced enough?
4) Offensive line isn't strong enough?
 
#38
#38
Grappler said:
Thanks
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I heard the phrase gap scheme for the first time this morning. I googled and tried to read up on it. You did a much better job explaining clearly than anything I found online. .. even comparing to the stuff with diagrams which you didn't have. I enjoy learning from people who can take complex things and make them understandable.

Well done.

I've read it is difficult to learn and master. Why is that? It seems simple enough.
 
#39
#39
volstopfan14 said:
Not entirely true. Seahawks are basically all zone blocking. Not much gap at all.

Teams like Georgia, LSU, and Stanford, among many others, primarily use the gap schemes in CFB.
Click to expand...

Yep you are right. I was thinking Seattle ran more of a power style. I just flipped over and watched some of the MNF game and every run play was zone blocked. My bad.
 
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#40
#40
General Jack said:
So if other programs are running with success, why are we failing? I'm assuming its not because of the scheme inherently.

1) Worley isn't a threat to run?
2) Hurd and Lane aren't the right type of RB?
3) Offensive line isn't experienced enough?
4) Offensive line isn't strong enough?
Click to expand...


I think you hit it with #3 and #4 . I have looked at the Bearcats offense quite a bit and think it will work here when we can block it well . The biggest problem that I can see with running game is ...the passing game. The passing game is a tried and true layered West Coast passing attack with the quick hitting bubble screens being the QBs pre-snap read and option . The issue is that we need, like any other team , 2.8 seconds for the top layer routes to develop . Our inexperienced O line is not giving up that right now. With so little time , things like double moves and medium range come backs , crossing routes are impossible. So , our whole offense is played within 8 yards of the ball . Our style of running , is predicated on the success of the passing game. These defenses are playing press coverage , cover 1 and cover 0 and attacking the run gaps and line of scrimmage down hill.

When we can block the scheme , we can take the lid off , spread the field vertical and horizontal ..and we'll be able to pound the rock
 
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#42
#42
orange parmejohn said:
This thread makes me feel guilty for some of my poisonous thoughts I've had about our Olinemen.
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We're used to it.... there is some pro o-line coaches that put on a clinic in Cincinnati every year called the C.O.O.L Clinic and their logo is a Mushroom for obvious reasons.
 
#44
#44
McDad said:
I heard the phrase gap scheme for the first time this morning. I googled and tried to read up on it. You did a much better job explaining clearly than anything I found online. .. even comparing to the stuff with diagrams which you didn't have. I enjoy learning from people who can take complex things and make them understandable.

Well done.

I've read it is difficult to learn and master. Why is that? It seems simple enough.
Click to expand...

Thanks...In my opinion Gap Schemes are easier simply because of the down blocks. A successful down block is getting to the defender, making contact and moving your feet, he's already blocked, you just have to get there. Also I coach for a spread team and for everyone you bring in to block (TE, FB, H-Back) you bring in another defender. Then this area starts to get crowded and you have to make more successful blocks at the point of attack. I like to have the least number of key blocks per play as I can get. Now we do run with two backs, a TE sometimes but it's to run play action or we have a slick QB Counter to run when they overload to stop the Power play.
 
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#45
#45
In high school, Mr. Gatorade All American Worley ran for 231 yards on 209 carries.

I personally don't expect him to keep the ball, nor do I expect the coaches to let him run the zone read option.

Running isn't his strength.
 
#46
#46
OrangeFed said:
In high school, Mr. Gatorade All American Worley ran for 231 yards on 209 carries.

I personally don't expect him to keep the ball, nor do I expect the coaches to let him run the zone read option.

Running isn't his strength.
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Welcome to the board. :hi:
 
#47
#47
Well, I wish Worley would stop carrying out the play after he hands it off like he is running with it! He needs to save his damn energy for when he is running for his life on the pass rush.
 
#48
#48
This is the most rational and informative thread I think I've ever seen on here. I hadn't heard about gap scheme before either, so thanks for the write ups, guys.
 
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#49
#49
Grappler said:
Thanks...In my opinion Gap Schemes are easier simply because of the down blocks. A successful down block is getting to the defender, making contact and moving your feet, he's already blocked, you just have to get there. Also I coach for a spread team and for everyone you bring in to block (TE, FB, H-Back) you bring in another defender. Then this area starts to get crowded and you have to make more successful blocks at the point of attack. I like to have the least number of key blocks per play as I can get. Now we do run with two backs, a TE sometimes but it's to run play action or we have a slick QB Counter to run when they overload to stop the Power play.
Click to expand...


Well, I am going to listen to what you say because if you are a high school coach I fully expect you to be a successful SEC coach in a couple of years. That seems to be the trend.
 
#50
#50
OrangeFed said:
In high school, Mr. Gatorade All American Worley ran for 231 yards on 209 carries.

I personally don't expect him to keep the ball, nor do I expect the coaches to let him run the zone read option.

Running isn't his strength.
Click to expand...
13300+ passing yds and 156 TD's was his strength in high school. He did have 10 TD's rushing with his massive 1.1 yard per carry lol
 
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