Game Thread: LADY VOLS AT AUBURN

Memvol44

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I think we were picked to finish 6th with Zaay Green, so to finish there without her (and to come within a whisper of finishing in third place with no tie) is pretty good. I'd say the odds are pretty good that we'd have picked up another couple of conference wins and beaten Texas to finish reg. season at 23-7 and 12-4 conference in third place. And most except the most hardened naysayers would have been singing Kellie's praises.

Still, injuries are part of the game, as Kentucky and A&M found out when they had to do without Howard and Carter for a stretch.
Agree,however we had no Zay and list Mimi...Zay for just about the whole season!!! Kellie did an awesome job!
 

VolBall09

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I think we were picked to finish 6th with Zaay Green, so to finish there without her (and to come within a whisper of finishing in third place with no tie) is pretty good. I'd say the odds are pretty good that we'd have picked up another couple of conference wins and beaten Texas to finish reg. season at 23-7 and 12-4 conference in third place. And most except the most hardened naysayers would have been singing Kellie's praises.

Still, injuries are part of the game, as Kentucky and A&M found out when they had to do without Howard and Carter for a stretch.
And as another pointed out, technically we finished tied for 3rd. Those other teams are 10-6 as well. This has been a tough year in the SEC, we could have easily folded in a lot of those close games. Heck even the opposing teams EXPECTED us to fold as the Ole Miss player said. That was a hallmark of Holly teams. If we had done that we might have been one of the two worst teams in the league this year.
 

lvocd

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Kellie gets ALL the credit --- she only had one senior for that Sweet 16 run last year, so all the players returned plus a couple of frosh Kellie recruited
IMO Kellie deserves a positive shout-out and full credit for having signed the tough-minded, coachable athletes that Coach Mox inherited, and then at least SOME credit for how they continued their momentum from last year to this year.

But I have to say, Coach Mox deserves the most credit for having managed to significantly improve that team in her first season. Yes, the strong foundation was already in place (unlike the situation Kellie inherited from Holly), but the MoSt players still had to trust Mox and buy into her system. She must be a fantastic manager/motivator, because they sure are having a heckuva season.
 

PG1

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To me finishing 6th meant we met expectations. So many times under previous regime we did not meet expectations. Now we need to win 2 games in SEC Tourney or this team will fall short.
 

Volfan2012

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I think the gameplan would hopefully be that we could win the first game of the tourney with no one playing over 25 minutes. I doubt that happens but certainly being able to limit minutes would be great if you could win. The big problem with our team is the bench is not much help in winning games. Needing your starters and key players having to go over thirty in the first game want be helpful to winning the next one.
 

Volfan2012

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Kellie gets ALL the credit --- she only had one senior for that Sweet 16 run last year, so all the players returned plus a couple of frosh Kellie recruited
Yes because the entire team returned with a year to get better. We hope to see the same thing at Tennessee that we saw there we'll have ten returning hopefully their improvement matches the improvement that was seen by the Missouri State players over a summer.
 
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Chippo

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It's sort of astounding to realize that with only one more win in those winnable games against LSU, KY, A&M, and ARK, we would have finished in sole possession of third place. Win three of those, and we would have been tied with MS State for 2nd place (that proposal was a stretch, but the one more conference win was there for the taking).

On the other hand, it would have seemed a bit unjust to finish ahead of three teams that beat us in the reg. season. And when playing the "what if" or "if only" game, we have to remember that we won over Alabama and Auburn literally within the last second both times. So we could just have easily finished 8-8 as to finish 11-5 or 12-4.

I also keep in mind that we had a somewhat easy conference schedule, that tough 5-game stretch notwithstanding. After all, we only played each of the five teams who finished ahead of us in seeding one time (and they all beat us). The only tough team we played twice was LSU, and the second time was without Mitchell (and we lost that game). The other two-timers were Vandy and Ole Miss. Pretty easy conference draw, if you ask me.

Not trying to downplay what the team did. Reduce turnovers from a horrible mark to just bad, and we have at least two more conference wins and could credibly claim to deserve third place outright. The turnover problem will be fixed during the off-season...Kellie's other teams never had this problem, so "bad coaching" is a ridiculous charge to make. A tougher non-conference schedule will help prepare the team better also for the conference grind.

It would be wonderful, amazing, and fabulous to see the turnover problem disappear in the upcoming tournaments and to see the team play near their potential. Not getting overly hopeful, but the team (coaches and players) are capable of doing that with the right combination of substitutions, common sense, fundamentals, focus and grace under pressure, and caution without being totally passive.

At this point, there really is "no tomorrow" in the tournaments. IMO, Kellie should stick with what's working early on and allow the players to stay on the floor as long as the offense is clicking. If one gets tired or starts making mistakes, then take that player out to rest and sub for that player only. Keep as many of your best on the floor as possible. You have time outs to use, there are stoppages of play, there are ends of quarters (unlike the men), there is a halftime, etc. With the exception of Lou and Tamari, the other starters ought to be in good enough shape to play 40 minutes if necessary, although they could come out for a blow. But I have to agree that wholesale substitutions "just because" isn't working out, especially when you're trading some of the few consistent offensive threats for several role players. That strategy worked pretty well at MO State where the competition was fairly equal, but even then Kellie left her best in as long as possible. And it's lot like we're bringing in defensive specialists who compensate for lack of offense with steals, offensive rebounds, shutdown of star players, etc. Most of the time, any points from several of our reserves who get key minutes have to be considered an unexpected bonus rather than something we can count on. And we end up just maintaining a lead when our opponent hits a cold stretch instead of building a big lead and maintaining momentum.
Good post Creekdipper'
 

lvocd

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Well as badly as we played yesterday at least we have a 20-9 record vs last years 19-13. We could actually win a couple of more games. As much griping about turnovers
( myself included) with what KJH had to work
with at least we had a better year. Still a work
in progress for her and the team.
I would have to say that we played poorly in a couple of stretches, but overall we played okay (IMO). They were quicker than us, and we turned it over too much, but we did hit some big shots when we needed to, and held Unique Thompson to 6 points and 5 rebounds — a player who, only a junior, has already broken DeWanna Bonner’s career record for double-doubles.

Yes, Dasia Alexander had a good night, but as a senior on Senior Day, she was extra inspired to work her tail off.

I am happy for the win because, once again, that would have been a loss for last year’s more talented (overall) team.
 

Volfan2012

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Just finished watching the game again. We played poorly against the press you can't cross court passes or telegraph passes like we did. That resulted in about nine turnovers in the game. Horston decision making is still a factor as is players being able to catch the ball. Burrell really in a rut with the IQ yesterday. We seem to have some players with some really bad hands. Davis made at least three bonehead plays that a junior should not make in the game. The missed free throws really killing us and probably will be our downfall when we finally lose our final game this season. Harper really having a hard time getting this team to follow instructions given in the huddle and also getting players to play with a high basketball IQ.
The interior defense in this game versus their post was really great they worked her hard and stayed in front. She did not get a lot of opportunities to shoot.
 
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djtee

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Just finished watching the game again. We played poorly against the press you can't cross court passes or telegraph passes like we did. That resulted in about nine turnovers in the game. Horston decision making is still a factor as is players being able to catch the ball. Burrell really in a rut with the IQ yesterday. We seem to have some players with some really bad hands. Davis made at least three bonehead plays that a junior should not make in the game. The missed free throws really killing us and probably will be our downfall when we finally lose our final game this season. Harper really having a hard time getting this team to follow instructions given in the huddle and also getting players to play with a high basketball IQ.
The interior defense in this game versus their post was really great they worked her hard and stayed in front. She did not get a lot of opportunities to shoot.
Keep McCoy on the bench she has been disaster i will take my chances with KK and Saunders. McCoy don`t play defense or rebound. I also agree with you on the cross court passes just crazy.
 

Prophet1

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It's sort of astounding to realize that with only one more win in those winnable games against LSU, KY, A&M, and ARK, we would have finished in sole possession of third place. Win three of those, and we would have been tied with MS State for 2nd place (that proposal was a stretch, but the one more conference win was there for the taking).

On the other hand, it would have seemed a bit unjust to finish ahead of three teams that beat us in the reg. season. And when playing the "what if" or "if only" game, we have to remember that we won over Alabama and Auburn literally within the last second both times. So we could just have easily finished 8-8 as to finish 11-5 or 12-4.

I also keep in mind that we had a somewhat easy conference schedule, that tough 5-game stretch notwithstanding. After all, we only played each of the five teams who finished ahead of us in seeding one time (and they all beat us). The only tough team we played twice was LSU, and the second time was without Mitchell (and we lost that game). The other two-timers were Vandy and Ole Miss. Pretty easy conference draw, if you ask me.

Not trying to downplay what the team did. Reduce turnovers from a horrible mark to just bad, and we have at least two more conference wins and could your last credibly claim to deserve third place outright. The turnover problem will be fixed during the off-season...Kellie's other teams never had this problem, so "bad coaching" is a ridiculous charge to make. A tougher non-conference schedule will help prepare the team better also for the conference grind.

It would be wonderful, amazing, and fabulous to see the turnover problem disappear in the upcoming tournaments and to see the team play near their potential. Not getting overly hopeful, but the team (coaches and players) are capable of doing that with the right combination of substitutions, common sense, fundamentals, focus and grace under pressure, and caution without being totally passive.

At this point, there really is "no tomorrow" in the tournaments. IMO, Kellie should stick with what's working early on and allow the players to stay on the floor as long as the offense is clicking. If one gets tired or starts making mistakes, then take that player out to rest and sub for that player only. Keep as many of your best on the floor as possible. You have time outs to use, there are stoppages of play, there are ends of quarters (unlike the men), there is a halftime, etc. With the exception of Lou and Tamari, the other starters ought to be in good enough shape to play 40 minutes if necessary, although they could come out for a blow. But I have to agree that wholesale substitutions "just because" isn't working out, especially when you're trading some of the few consistent offensive threats for several role players. That strategy worked pretty well at MO State where the competition was fairly equal, but even then Kellie left her best in as long as possible. And it's lot like we're bringing in defensive specialists who compensate for lack of offense with steals, offensive rebounds, shutdown of star players, etc. Most of the time, any points from several of our reserves who get key minutes have to be considered an unexpected bonus rather than something we can count on. And we end up just maintaining a lead when our opponent hits a cold stretch instead of building a big lead and maintaining momentum.
Your last paragraph is on the money.
"At this point"....
 

FrozenLVFan

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At this point, there really is "no tomorrow" in the tournaments. IMO, Kellie should stick with what's working early on and allow the players to stay on the floor as long as the offense is clicking. If one gets tired or starts making mistakes, then take that player out to rest and sub for that player only. Keep as many of your best on the floor as possible. You have time outs to use, there are stoppages of play, there are ends of quarters (unlike the men), there is a halftime, etc. With the exception of Lou and Tamari, the other starters ought to be in good enough shape to play 40 minutes if necessary, although they could come out for a blow. But I have to agree that wholesale substitutions "just because" isn't working out, especially when you're trading some of the few consistent offensive threats for several role players. That strategy worked pretty well at MO State where the competition was fairly equal, but even then Kellie left her best in as long as possible. And it's lot like we're bringing in defensive specialists who compensate for lack of offense with steals, offensive rebounds, shutdown of star players, etc. Most of the time, any points from several of our reserves who get key minutes have to be considered an unexpected bonus rather than something we can count on. And we end up just maintaining a lead when our opponent hits a cold stretch instead of building a big lead and maintaining momentum.
To be fair, often as not KJH has to make an early substitution because someone, usually Burrell, Key, or Davis, has picked up a couple of stupid fouls in the first 5 minutes. That doesn't help the flow of the game at all. However, it's essential that Jazz stay at the point for as long as possible. She takes care of the ball, moves the ball around, doesn't have to come out for foul trouble, and doesn't appear to get fatigued easily. The offense goes to hell the minute she comes out. The one incomprehensible coaching maneuver that leaves me scratching my head is to bring Horston in for somebody else and move her to the point while Jazz is still in the game. WTH?
 
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Prophet1

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Just finished watching the game again. We played poorly against the press you can't cross court passes or telegraph passes like we did. That resulted in about nine turnovers in the game. Horston decision making is still a factor as is players being able to catch the ball. Burrell really in a rut with the IQ yesterday. We seem to have some players with some really bad hands. Davis made at least three bonehead plays that a junior should not make in the game. The missed free throws really killing us and probably will be our downfall when we finally lose our final game this season. Harper really having a hard time getting this team to follow instructions given in the huddle and also getting players to play with a high basketball IQ.
The interior defense in this game versus their post was really great they worked her hard and stayed in front. She did not get a lot of opportunities to shoot.
Also Jas badly affect games only its not noticeable,
for instance, Jas hesitates to pass , hesitates to shoot or drive , stands around quite alot and doesn't receive
much heat. Jordan's cut in the paint, received the pass
too late ( three seconds, three hand claps by Jordan
late) caused the frosh to turn it over.
Jas can have a huge impact or minus as point guard
and the team follow her highs and lows. Doesn't she suppose to be mini Kellie on the court? Well, she needs
to up her level of play, like today .
The better teams have the better point guards.
 

djohnnyg

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Reason I brought up the question of Kellie and Mo State is I've heard many times here she's not a good recruiter. Coach Mox may be good but u simply can't win w out the talent on the court. So...Mo States players are good...really good for that place. Should be seen as a really good sign for what she can do here. I don't see any other way of looking at it.
 

Volfan2012

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Also Jas badly affect games only its not noticeable,
for instance, Jas hesitates to pass , hesitates to shoot or drive , stands around quite alot and doesn't receive
much heat. Jordan's cut in the paint, received the pass
too late ( three seconds, three hand claps by Jordan
late) caused the frosh to turn it over.
Jas can have a huge impact or minus as point guard
and the team follow her highs and lows. Doesn't she suppose to be mini Kellie on the court? Well, she needs
to up her level of play, like today .
The better teams have the better point guards.
Point guards definitely need to be able to shoot, dribble, and pass. She is more of a combo guard not a true point guard needs to improve her shooting a lot to be a factor. Point guard and post are where we suffer the most on offense. I do give them both some credit for excellent defense.
 

djtee

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Reason I brought up the question of Kellie and Mo State is I've heard many times here she's not a good recruiter. Coach Mox may be good but u simply can't win w out the talent on the court. So...Mo States players are good...really good for that place. Should be seen as a really good sign for what she can do here. I don't see any other way of looking at it.
You are 100% correct and 2020 recruiting was a wash to say. And 2021 is slow right now so only time will tell.
 

Darth_Vol

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Well, they DO care because they are kids. But there are people here who would continue their cruel behavior even if someone told them that a certain player is deeply suffering over their comments. They’d just think that was hilarious and keep making their hurtful comments with, “well, if someone is dumb enough to worry over comments on a message board, then good riddance!” This is how cruel and ugly people like Darth_Vol are. I guaranTEE you he’d laugh if he read that his comments caused some kid pain, even if it were extreme.
Remind me again, who was it that suggested the roster was full of young women who are "mentally slow?" That's far more personally insulting than anything I've ever said about a player...
 
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lvocd

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Jordan's cut in the paint, received the pass
too late ( three seconds, three hand claps by Jordan
late) caused the frosh to turn it over.
Agreed. I was sitting behind the Lady Vols bench at the perfect angle to see Jordan making that beautiful diagonal cut across the length of the lane, open the entire time and calling for the ball, but she only received the pass after the defense had finally noticed her and had time to collapse around her. That was, to me, the most frustrating missed opportunity of the game because the way it developed was perfection — until it wasn’t. Not Jordan’s fault. She was so open for so long that Moses could have gotten all his people across that lane before it collapsed! :eek:
 

Lucy

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The truth is not cruel and if a player is choosing to peruse a fan message board I hope they also are paying attention to the countless tips on how to improve their play.
This is of course assuming the haters actually know what is true and that countless tips on improvement as noted herein would be better than the coaching said player is receiving from the coaching staff hired by The University of Tennessee. I’m giving this a firm not likely.
No insult meant to posters on our board who have coaching experience. I enjoy your incites but hope the players aren’t using their time looking over these posts. Better off studying for freshmen English or chem finals.
 

glv98

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This is of course assuming the haters actually know what is true and that countless tips on improvement as noted herein would be better than the coaching said player is receiving from the coaching staff hired by The University of Tennessee. I’m giving this a firm not likely.
No insult meant to posters on our board who have coaching experience. I enjoy your incites but hope the players aren’t using their time looking over these posts. Better off studying for freshmen English or chem finals.
Exactly. Of course the advice would not be better. Not one thing of value to be gained by any of them wasting one nanosecond of time on this board. So don't. In addition to the extra study time (to gain 'incites'), perhaps an additional ball handling drill?

I believe there is heartfelt good intent amongst the "defenders" of players who may take heat here, but frankly, its just silly. People inside the program do not belong here. Imagine a player or parent following a group of fans out of the arena after the game as they walk to their car and straining to overhear them discussing what they just watched. And being oh so hurt if their eavesdropping picks up harsh opinions. Registering and logging into a fan board is no different.

Do not go fishing for insults, you will surely catch them. It's why most players do not, and should not, use public social media in season. Focus on what's actually important. What you came here to do is important. What we say about it is not.

A bit more disturbing to me is the rampant over personalization and over dramatization of all this. We are not "haters", that's absurd. I don't know these people, nor do I pretend to nor want to. It gets a little creepy when folks set players up as victims and themselves as the great rescuers. A little too much involvement, real or imagined, for my comfort into the players' off court lives.
 
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Exactly. Of course the advice would not be better. Not one thing of value to be gained by any of them wasting one nanosecond of time on this board. So don't. In addition to the extra study time (to gain 'incites'), perhaps an additional ball handling drill?

I believe there is pure and heartfelt intent amongst the "defenders" of players who may take heat here, but frankly, its just silly.People inside the program do not belong here. Imagine a player or parent following a group of fans out of the arena after the game as they walk to their car and straining to overhear them discussing the game they just watched. And being oh so hurt if their eavesdropping picks up harsh opinions. Registering and logging into a fan board is no different.

Do not fish for insults, you will surely find them. It's why most players do not, and should not, use public social media in season. Focus on what's actually important. What you came here to do is important. What we say about it is not.

A bit more disturbing to me is the rampant over personalization and over dramatization of all this. We are not "haters", that's absurd. I don't know these people, nor do I pretend to nor want to. It gets a little creepy when folks set players up as victims and themselves as the great rescuers.

says the "king of the negavol he-man woman haters" club
 

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