Game Thread: Fla at Lady Vols; Thurs Jan 11; 7PM; SEC Network ----- Win; 88-81

[LV renaissance]

I think there's a counter argument here, and that's what you give up on offense if you start Jill and TK instead of Strip and Puckett. You make it much easier for poor Rickea to get mauled if you limit outside threats. You invite packing the paint. Starting Sara, in spite of defensive limits, was absolutely the right decision against Fla. The gators never backed off double and tripling RJ and Sara was able to have a field day. Also, heavy traffic down low like Jill and TK takes away some of RJ's space to operate. Forces her more to the perimeter where she's not quite as effective and is prone to t.o.s

Some of this seems to be addressing the wrong problem, or not the complete problem. As you mentioned, Jewel is getting blown by alot. It's great to have a backstop for that, but Jewel also has to get better defensively and in a hurry. As do all our perimeter defenders. Given that problem, I'd be more likely to want to start TK as a rim protecter, but we really don't know her minute limitation. I'd way rather have her late game than early if that's still the tradeoff.

I'm not saying sticking w Sara and Strip is the right decision every game. Or at all. But offense vs defense is a real dilema as is the use of TK's mins. I don't think this is an obvious open and shut case. To some extent, this team is always going to be most likely to win by simply outscoring the other team so outside shooters are essential.

I do think you make some sound points. However, the proof is in the pudding, which suggests that by getting behind in the score to mediocre teams that the offensive benefits of the starting line up or outweighed by the defensive deficits. I do think we can still play Puckett and Striplin for considerable minutes in a game and benefit from their offensive skills. Furthermore, I think that Jillian outscored Striplin last year, and may actually start scoring more if she in in the game for more minutes. That would be awesome given her other skill set!

 

[madtownvol]

I think there's a counter argument here, and that's what you give up on offense if you start Jill and TK instead of Strip and Puckett. You make it much easier for poor Rickea to get mauled if you limit outside threats. You invite packing the paint. Starting Sara, in spite of defensive limits, was absolutely the right decision against Fla. The gators never backed off double and tripling RJ and Sara was able to have a field day. Also, heavy traffic down low like Jill and TK takes away some of RJ's space to operate. Forces her more to the perimeter where she's not quite as effective and is prone to t.o.s

Some of this seems to be addressing the wrong problem, or not the complete problem. As you mentioned, Jewel is getting blown by alot. It's great to have a backstop for that, but Jewel also has to get better defensively and in a hurry. As do all our perimeter defenders. Given that problem, I'd be more likely to want to start TK as a rim protecter, but we really don't know her minute limitation. I'd way rather have her late game than early if that's still the tradeoff.

I'm not saying sticking w Sara and Strip is the right decision every game. Or at all. But offense vs defense is a real dilema as is the use of TK's mins. I don't think this is an obvious open and shut case. To some extent, this team is always going to be most likely to win by simply outscoring the other team so outside shooters are essential.

I agree. And it would have been easy to drop Sara, after several bad games but Kellie stuck with her and she came up big. So, not crushing her confidence turned out to be I don't know, a good coaching move?

And when you look at the quarter by quarter breakdown, the first quarter defense (where Sara and Karo) was not the different from the other quarters. In fact, the 3rd quarter defense (In terms of shooting % +pts allowed), with Sara and Karo, was our best in the game.

What stands out to me is that FT shooting was the critical difference. 16 for 18 in the 4th quarter. We had some games where FT probably cost a win but this game really turned that around.

 

[Coach Jumper]

I agree. And it would have been easy to drop Sara, after several bad games but Kellie stuck with her and she came up big. So, not crushing her confidence turned out to be I don't know, a good coaching move?

And when you look at the quarter by quarter breakdown, the first quarter defense (where Sara and Karo) was not the different from the other quarters. In fact, the 3rd quarter defense (In terms of shooting % +pts allowed), with Sara and Karo, was our best in the game.

What stands out to me is that FT shooting was the critical difference. 16 for 18 in the 4th quarter. We had some games where FT probably cost a win but this game really turned that around.

she rolled that same dice last year and this year on Darby
Since Darby's 6-9 game she is 2-9
Kellie has a hard time with change until it is an absolute necessity
A bad habit for a coach

 

[WinnerCircle]

Sara and Karo are averaging double figures on the season. Karo actually started the year coming off the bench and had some of her better games. Sara has had some mixed results as a starter this season.

I believe one of the main things being missed is that while neither are back to the basket post players that’s what is being asked of them in the system.

Early in games, you see them having issues not based 100% on the opponent but due to their skill set.

Throughout WBB there is only a handful of back to the basket players left with TK being one of them and next to none coming out of the HS ranks.

The staff has this identity to work inside early in games which does not play to the strength of the team.

Not many teams in WBB, even the best offensive teams which includes TN at full strength averaging 90 pts per game; best offense is posting up down low.

You can play inside - out just change where the players are making the entry passes, the spacing, and the position players are catching the ball in the paint.

 

[VA_VOLFAN]

The big problem playing A&M is going to be their power in the post positions. They are very strong and are going to be more than Sarah and Karoline can handle. It will be completely different from Florida or Auburn and more like a double dose of Kentucky's Petty who severely abused Karoline until TK righted that situation. Barker, Coulaby, and Ware will be able to do the same thing. Just hoping we don't let it go on to long and get to far behind this time. Unlike Kentucky A&M is a team that will be very hard to make up a double digit deficit. Were going to need TK and Jill to give us great defense on the inside. Of the points they average 35 are coming from these three players and 13 more from Rogers. This is where were going to need to make a difference to win. Four players is about 70 percent of their scoring.

I think Coulibaly went down with a knee injury their last game and had to be helped back up so hopefully she is ok ... after having rickea miss 8 games i realize i dont feel bad for playing teams with higher Net Rankings if their best players aren't playing. Ours didn't play during a crucial stretch so I say go collect a top 30 (#27 so that would be a really good road win) Net Ranking win and get back to Knoxville safely. 6-0 streak looks good but lucky #7 would be better!

Hopefully everyone has had a good start to their new year! As always Go LVs, enjoy the rest of the season (despite the rocky starts it's been fun), and back to my hiatus

 

[VolBall09]

I think Coulibaly went down with a knee injury their last game and had to be helped back up so hopefully she is ok ... after having rickea miss 8 games i realize i dont feel bad for playing teams with higher Net Rankings if their best players aren't playing. Ours didn't play during a crucial stretch so I say go collect a top 30 (#27 so that would be a really good road win) Net Ranking win and get back to Knoxville safely. 6-0 streak looks good but lucky #7 would be better!

Hopefully everyone has had a good start to their new year! As always Go LVs, enjoy the rest of the season (despite the rocky starts it's been fun), and back to my hiatus

I was watching and I’m pretty certain she was just being dramatic. The play was over, she had already wandered away, slowly sat down, then refused to get back up for a couple minutes. The way Joni and her teammates were patting and tugging on her tells me she was fine lol. She just didn’t want to play anymore, knew they were gonna lose.

 

[Coach Jumper]

I was watching and I’m pretty certain she was just being dramatic. The play was over, she had already wandered away, slowly sat down, then refused to get back up for a couple minutes. The way Joni and her teammates were patting and tugging on her tells me she was fine lol. She just didn’t want to play anymore, knew they were gonna lose.

what qtr

 

[WinnerCircle]

she rolled that same dice last year and this year on Darby
Since Darby's 6-9 game she is 2-9
Kellie has a hard time with change until it is an absolute necessity
A bad habit for a coach

I agree no reason to over complicate the obvious need for certain changes.

I also see that players on this team conform to their roles. If it doesn’t work and they get in a slump it becomes hard to get back on track.

One thing I’ve seen Tess Darby do more this year is play solid help defense and in the past 3 SEC games take short jumpers and not settle for 3 point shots.

Early in the season Sara was rebounding well and particularly had a solid game rebounding against Florida State who has some athletic players.

They just have to be consistent.
Sara is coming off a 20 pt game, if she struggles in the next two offensively then that means they didn’t take advantage of what worked from a strategic standpoint.

 

[Coach Jumper]

I agree no reason to over complicate the obvious need for certain changes.

I also see that players on this team conform to their roles. If it doesn’t work and they get in slump it becomes hard to get back on track.

One thing I’ve seen Tess Darby do more this year is play solid help defense and in the past 3 SEC games take short jumpers and not settle for 3 point shots.

Early in the season Sara was rebounding well and particularly had a solid game rebounding against Florida State who has some athletic players.

They just have to be consistent.
Sara is coming off a 20 pt game, if she struggles in the next two offensively then that means they didn’t take advantage of what worked from a strategic standpoint.

Nicely done, WC,,,wish I'd wrote this
agree with everything

 

[VolBall09]

what qtr

4th quarter

 

[Coach Jumper]

I was watching and I’m pretty certain she was just being dramatic. The play was over, she had already wandered away, slowly sat down, then refused to get back up for a couple minutes. The way Joni and her teammates were patting and tugging on her tells me she was fine lol. She just didn’t want to play anymore, knew they were gonna lose.

agree

 

[madtownvol]

she rolled that same dice last year and this year on Darby
Since Darby's 6-9 game she is 2-9
Kellie has a hard time with change until it is an absolute necessity
A bad habit for a coach

I am not sure that criticism applies this season to the extent it did last year.

Tess has not been starting of late. Kellie has been going with Puckett, Jackson, Spear, Strip, and Powell.

And that group seems to be the core.
Tess only played 12 minutes against FL.

Wynn now rotates in at PG (though Spear slides into the PG slot on occasions with Wynn being the off ball guard.

Key is getting more and more minutes (understandably so). Jillian minutes might be the debatable point.

 

[VA_VOLFAN]

I was watching and I’m pretty certain she was just being dramatic. The play was over, she had already wandered away, slowly sat down, then refused to get back up for a couple minutes. The way Joni and her teammates were patting and tugging on her tells me she was fine lol. She just didn’t want to play anymore, knew they were gonna lose.

Cool ... so we get to beat them with all their players im cool with that too... I love rickea had a "bad" game and that was a 18 pt 8 rebound game lol... the thing about rickea she doesn't do two bad games in a row lol

Now back to my hiatus everyone enjoy the season, stay healthy , and Go LVs

 

[Coach Jumper]

I am not sure that criticism applies this season to the extent it did last year.

Tess has not been starting of late. Kellie has been going with Puckett, Jackson, Spear, Strip, and Powell.

And that group seems to be the core.
Tess only played 12 minutes against FL.

Wynn now rotates in at PG (though Spear slides into the PG slot on occasions with Wynn being the off ball guard.

Key is getting more and more minutes (understandably so). Jillian minutes might be the debatable point.

Darby was my example,,,not my thought
Sara was my thought
she stuck with Sara when many of us would have played Jill/Tess more.
Yes Tess is 2-9 for the last three games, but she truly has played a more complete role...She has shown the ability to go coast to coast, made more from 2's than 3's in a game and showed smarts on defense...Good for her, yes,,,but a long range shooter has to do THAT job first bc that is why they're here.

Wynn,,,themore she plays the more comfortable she will get and the more confident she will become...She feeds Tamari better than anyone else and she is definitely the most innate athlete.. she should see time tomorrow

 

[Aladywhovolunteer]

Absolutely. It is so obvious to almost anyone that this combo doesn't work on defense. I like both players, but they should mostly be in the game at different times or when we have a huge lead. The other issue at the beginning of the games is that even the relatively better defenders don't seem to have much intensity until later in the game. So, as the opposing guard blows by Jewel it leaves Sarah and Karoline to defend against the speedster, which is not going to happen. My fear is that I can hear Kellie talking to the media now, stating that there is no need to change the starting line-up due to their being on a 6-game winning streak. No, we have won despite the starting lineup by other line-ups making up the deficit. Kellie, I am begging you to see the obvious here and do something before we get a loss that will hurt our chances to go to the tourney !

Excellent post!

I sometimes complain about our inability to play a simple man to man defense. But of course it's much more complicated than just guard your man.

If you saw the men's game today, Dane Bradshaw did an excellent job of explaining why Georgia was making our defense look pedestrian. Dane's analysis certainly applies to the Lady Vols predicament. His simple explanation would take an inordinate amount of time to try an explain in writing and may still not be coherent but here is the summary.

It appears, we tell our Lady Vols' players (in order to prevent blowbys) position yourself on the three point line and don't close out shooters too quickly and pick up fouls. We also do not hedge, when faced with high on-ball screens allowing blowbys that sometimes resemble layup lines. Because of our foot speed but great post size, most teams are simply trying to get our defense to react, provide help defense and get into a bad rotation.

That's why when we stop dribble drives in the paint with help defense /(switches) there is suddenly a three point shooter standing wide open for an uncontested three. We are in scramble mode trying to reach the shooter and we look terrible. In other words guard your man. Let Key's presence serve as a deterrent. Don't go under on-ball screens and do not switch, causing our defense to go into bad rotations. It appears we will live with two point baskets without fouling rather than give up uncontested three.

 

[Lucy]

Excellent post!

I sometimes complain about our inability to play a simple man to man defense. But of course it's much more complicated than just guard your man.

If you saw the men's game today, Dane Bradshaw did an excellent job of explaining why Georgia was making our defense look pedestrian. Dane's analysis certainly applies to the Lady Vols predicament. His simple explanation would take an inordinate amount of time to try an explain in writing and may still not be coherent but here is the summary.

It appears, we tell our Lady Vols' players (in order to prevent blowbys) position yourself on the three point line and don't close out shooters too quickly and pick up fouls. We also do not hedge, when faced with high on-ball screens allowing blowbys that sometimes resemble layup lines. Because of our foot speed but great post size, most teams are simply trying to get our defense to react, provide help defense and get into a bad rotation.

That's why when we stop dribble drives in the paint with help defense /(switches) there is suddenly a three point shooter standing wide open for an uncontested three. We are in scramble mode trying to reach the shooter and we look terrible. In other words guard your man. Let Key's presence serve as a deterrent. Don't go under on-ball screens and do not switch, causing our defense to go into bad rotations. It appears we will live with two point baskets without fouling rather than give up uncontested three.

Really interesting! Thanks for posting!