Game Thread: (16/19) Lady Vols at (6/5) Texas A&M

#701
#701
Back to the game and loss. This is the second game (and also Uconn) where the LVs lost contact in the 4th quarter. I feel that these shortfalls are a problem of the system. To explain, on the plus side, Kelly has the team running a much half-court offense and getting more points from the post and general involvement from all five positions. But elite teams usually have a go-to player that they rely upon when it comes to crunch time. like the Texas A&M's Carter or KY's Howard took the LVs down last season or even Paige B for Uconn down the stretch this season.

The LVs have two players Davis and Burrell that could change the game. In the 4th quarter, I want the offense running through those two, not Marta trying to post up in the paint because we must have balanced scoring.

Kellie, over her career, has not coached players who have the scoring ability of Davis and Burrell. When you are at Mizz St. or UTC, platoon scoring is the order of the day. When you have elite talent, though, you have to use it. Run some isolations and clears outs for Davis and Burrel, force double teams, and then they can dump off for easy buckets. When you have the players, it is not that hard to figure out to create mismatches.

Opportunities are being squandered.
 
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#702
#702
madtownvol said:
Back to the game and loss. This is the second game (and also Uconn) where the LVs lost contact in the 4th quarter. I feel that these shortfalls are a problem of the system. To explain, on the plus side, Kelly has the team running a much half-court offense and getting more points from the post and general involvement from all five positions. But elite teams usually have a go-to player that they rely upon when it comes to crunch time. like the Texas A&M's Carter or KY's Howard took the LVs down last season or even Paige B for Uconn down the stretch this season.

The LVs have two players Davis and Burrell that could change the game. In the 4th quarter, I want the offense running through those two, not Marta trying to post up in the paint because we must have balanced scoring.

Kellie, over her career, has not coached players who have the scoring ability of Davis and Burrell. When you are at Mizz St. or UTC, platoon scoring is the order of the day. When you have elite talent, though, you have to use it. Run some isolations and clears outs for Davis and Burrel, force double teams, and then they can dump off for easy buckets. When you have the players, it is not that hard to figure out to create mismatches.

Opportunities are being squandered.
Click to expand...

This is a bit confusing considering Rennia and Rae scored all of our points in the fourth quarter. Mostly off of set plays and clear outs. She did exactly what you indicated, it just didn’t work.

We lost that game due to the way it was officiated. When there is a disparity of almost 20 FT attempts you’re going to have a tough time winning.
 
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#703
#703
VolBall09 said:
This is a bit confusing considering Rennia and Rae scored all of our points in the fourth quarter. Mostly off of set plays and clear outs. She did exactly what you indicated, it just didn’t work.

We lost that game due to the way it was officiated. When there is a disparity of almost 20 FT attempts you’re going to have a tough time winning.
Click to expand...
While I agree for the most part what you stated above, what about the play to end the 3rd Q? That has happened at good 5 times this season, a clear out with Horston at the top as she drives towards the basket and bricks or airballs a shot with no time left on the clock. That's not the correct coaching move. Wasted possessions.
 
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#704
#704
VolBall09 said:
This is a bit confusing considering Rennia and Rae scored all of our points in the fourth quarter. Mostly off of set plays and clear outs. She did exactly what you indicated, it just didn’t work.

We lost that game due to the way it was officiated. When there is a disparity of almost 20 FT attempts you’re going to have a tough time winning.
Click to expand...

Look at the play by play of the fourth quarter:

Women's Basketball vs Texas A&M on 2/14/2021 - Box Score - University of Tennessee Athletics

The LVs only scored 11 points. And those 4th quarter points did come from Davis and Burrell but they just weren't getting that many touches. TOs had a lot to do with that

FTs were disparity but points of TOs (4 for the LVs and 18 for Texas A&M). You can't control officiating but you can control TOs. That remains this team's biggest problem
 
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#705
#705
VolBall09 said:
This is a bit confusing considering Rennia and Rae scored all of our points in the fourth quarter. Mostly off of set plays and clear outs. She did exactly what you indicated, it just didn’t work.

We lost that game due to the way it was officiated. When there is a disparity of almost 20 FT attempts you’re going to have a tough time winning.
Click to expand...
Or one team is more aggressive than the other 🤷‍♂️
 
#706
#706
@madtownvol in the 4th we went to the Davis/Burrell well over and over again, especially in the clutch. Most of the time it came up dry. There's one play that is kind of our bread and butter. We ran it at least 10 times in the game and about 5 times in the 4th. Basically Davis or Burrell get the ball on the wing, usually a screen from Key, ballhandler goes over the screen, drives across the ft line, and KK creates kind of a boxout/rub screen, and ballhandler finishes with a layup or scoop on the opposite block. It's a high percentage play. We went there, but late in the 4th, it got shut down 3 or four times in a row. Blair made a big adjustment to how it was defended and we never adjusted to the adjustment. Both of Burrell's TOs came during this time. Now that this is on film we need an effective "counter play" that looks like this one but ends with a dump off to a post or an open 3.

I know some like hero ball and calling numbers in the clutch, but I prefer just good sound basketball. Run your set in the 4th quarter just like you would in the 1st quarter, except make adjustments for the opponent's adjustments, play the chess match better. You need "counter plays" late in the game, as the defense learns your best set plays, you have to expose their adjustments with wrinkles to make them pay when they "cheat on the play". I haven't seen much of that from us yet.
 
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#707
#707
An example of the play I'm talking about is at exactly 3 minutes left in the 4th. Pass goes to Davis on the wing. She goes over Key's screen but gets stopped by Key's defender on the switch. I'd like to see her keep going to the left and hit Key rolling to the basket. On this play, she got bailed out on a foul but did not get a good look.
 
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#708
#708
37620VOL said:
@madtownvol in the 4th we went to the Davis/Burrell well over and over again, especially in the clutch. Most of the time it came up dry. There's one play that is kind of our bread and butter. We ran it at least 10 times in the game and about 5 times in the 4th. Basically Davis or Burrell get the ball on the wing, usually a screen from Key, ballhandler goes over the screen, drives across the ft line, and KK creates kind of a boxout/rub screen, and ballhandler finishes with a layup or scoop on the opposite block. It's a high percentage play. We went there, but late in the 4th, it got shut down 3 or four times in a row. Blair made a big adjustment to how it was defended and we never adjusted to the adjustment. Both of Burrell's TOs came during this time. Now that this is on film we need an effective "counter play" that looks like this one but ends with a dump off to a post or an open 3.

I know some like hero ball and calling numbers in the clutch, but I prefer just good sound basketball. Run your set in the 4th quarter just like you would in the 1st quarter, except make adjustments for the opponent's adjustments, play the chess match better. You need "counter plays" late in the game, as the defense learns your best set plays, you have to expose their adjustments with wrinkles to make them pay when they "cheat on the play". I haven't seen much of that from us yet.
Click to expand...

That is a really good point. I would just add that we also need some different ways to run plays for Burrell and Davis. Right now, I feel that our offense is really about getting the ball into the paint and finding key or KK in the low block. I would like to see the offense built more around Davis and Burrell.
That low block set went to the extremes in the 3rd quarter (I originally and mistakenly thought this happened in the 4th) with Marta trying to post up two or three times and none of those plays had good outcomes.
 
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#710
#710
37620VOL said:
@madtownvol in the 4th we went to the Davis/Burrell well over and over again, especially in the clutch. Most of the time it came up dry. There's one play that is kind of our bread and butter. We ran it at least 10 times in the game and about 5 times in the 4th. Basically Davis or Burrell get the ball on the wing, usually a screen from Key, ballhandler goes over the screen, drives across the ft line, and KK creates kind of a boxout/rub screen, and ballhandler finishes with a layup or scoop on the opposite block. It's a high percentage play. We went there, but late in the 4th, it got shut down 3 or four times in a row. Blair made a big adjustment to how it was defended and we never adjusted to the adjustment. Both of Burrell's TOs came during this time. Now that this is on film we need an effective "counter play" that looks like this one but ends with a dump off to a post or an open 3.

I know some like hero ball and calling numbers in the clutch, but I prefer just good sound basketball. Run your set in the 4th quarter just like you would in the 1st quarter, except make adjustments for the opponent's adjustments, play the chess match better. You need "counter plays" late in the game, as the defense learns your best set plays, you have to expose their adjustments with wrinkles to make them pay when they "cheat on the play". I haven't seen much of that from us yet.
Click to expand...

Great post. I agree. Got to play your game from the tip to the finish. Don’t need hero ball if you’re playing as a unit.

One massive improvement is how much more interesting this team is to watch. Nice that we actually do force teams to adjust.
 
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#711
#711
VolBalls33 said:
While I agree for the most part what you stated above, what about the play to end the 3rd Q? That has happened at good 5 times this season, a clear out with Horston at the top as she drives towards the basket and bricks or airballs a shot with no time left on the clock. That's not the correct coaching move. Wasted possessions.
Click to expand...

Not convinced that was the play coach called.
 
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#712
#712
PG1 said:
Or one team is more aggressive than the other 🤷‍♂️
Click to expand...

We had 38 points in the paint compared to their 22. We had 40 boards compared to their 29. We were the more aggressive team offensively. The officiating was one sided and poor.

Heck go ask Gary Blair. He’ll agree. He told them to start taking it in the paint because they were getting a whistle every time. Not the same on the other end.
 
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#713
#713
Hell, we got a foul called if they got near the lane...It was ridiculous.

I played several of those phantom calls on slow mo and our player never touched them...It looked like we might touch them, but pulled off, still a whistle...There was no way in hell the LVs were going to win that game.

Sorry guys, but the refs just sucked...
 
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#714
#714
madtownvol said:
That is a really good point. I would just add that we also need some different ways to run plays for Burrell and Davis. Right now, I feel that our offense is really about getting the ball into the paint and finding key or KK in the low block. I would like to see the offense built more around Davis and Burrell.
That low block set went to the extremes in the 3rd quarter (I originally and mistakenly thought this happened in the 4th) with Marta trying to post up two or three times and none of those plays had good outcomes.
Click to expand...
 
#715
#715
We need to make some adjustments.... someone noted that we are giving up games in the 4th quarter very accurate....

I wish people wouldn't say officiating was one sided and we got jobbed.,... always a bad call here or there.... but all too frequently i read that refs stole game from us....

i remember a decade ago.... when notre dame was taking it to uconn i think 7 games in a row..... whistles were very lopsided..... and it was a lot because ND had game plan to drive drive drive.... whistle every time..... as i recall uconn finally made adjustment on defense.... arms straight up and no body movement....
 
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#716
#716
@GameTime i know you have been on Jordan and worried lately but here is a little more insight... if we had a little more depth to think she might not even be playing but she is playing for her team. Who knew right?

Lady Vol sophomore Jordan Horston, who has been battling back and foot issues and remains day-to-day, has had 14 assists and just three turnovers in her last three games and leads the team with 24 steals. Graduate transfer Jordan Walker is second on the team with 18 steals and will be needed Thursday to help defend the backcourt of South Carolina, along with freshman Destiny Salary, who tends to bring high energy to the court.
 
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#717
#717
GameTime said:
Hell, we got a foul called if they got near the lane...It was ridiculous.

I played several of those phantom calls on slow mo and our player never touched them...It looked like we might touch them, but pulled off, still a whistle...There was no way in hell the LVs were going to win that game.

Sorry guys, but the refs just sucked...
Click to expand...
The refs don’t see it in slow motion.
 
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#722
#722
37620VOL said:
I'm a fan of letting them play, especially if the offense initiates contact.
Click to expand...


The best officials are the ones barely noticed on the floor. Too many officials think that they are the fans’ focal point, rather than the players. No one goes to games to watch referees. The epitome for a referee is to make calls the same way on both ends of the floor. If this is done, players and coaches know that they are treated fairly. If it’s a foul on me,then when you do it,the foul is on you. Seems that there are very few officials that do this.

Just the thoughts of a former official in Tennessee and Texas.
 
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