Fulmer v. Brown (8 years from now)

[cotton]

Well, as I was reading another thread that was rehashing for the millionth time whether Fulmer should be evaluated today on his 1) significant career achievements at UT, or 2) disappointing results over the past 5-8 years, it occurred to me that Mack Brown at Texas is in a very similar position as Fulmer was in Knoxville in 1999. I would be interested to know, if we knew what brown would do in his next 7 years, how would he be evaluated?

So, look into the future, and see that:

Texas finishes this year at 11-3 with a BCS loss

2007 is disappointing, culminating with an 8-4 record and a loss in the Cotton Bowl

2008 Texas is knocked out of the National Title game with an upset loss in the Big 12 CG. They route their Cotton Bowl opponent to finish in the top 5.

2009 Another disappointing season, going 8-5 with an embarrassing loss in a 2nd tier bowl.

2010 A 10-win season and a tie for their division crown, but fate drops them to a 2nd tier bowl again, where they lose.

2011 They win their division, but lose the CG. They again route their Cotton Bowl opponent.

2012 After lofty preseason rankings in the top 5, Texas implodes and goes 5-6.

2013 An improved team from the previous year, the Horns drop 3 conference games and are looking at a mid-level bowl game again.

In 2014, how do you evaluate Brown? Does he get the boot, or do they build a statue to him in Austin?

I would like to hear what the Volnation has to say.

 

[champyvol]

Well, as I was reading another thread that was rehashing for the millionth time whether Fulmer should be evaluated today on his 1) significant career achievements at UT, or 2) disappointing results over the past 5-8 years, it occurred to me that Mack Brown at Texas is in a very similar position as Fulmer was in Knoxville in 1999. I would be interested to know, if we knew what brown would do in his next 7 years, how would he be evaluated?

So, look into the future, and see that:

Texas finishes this year at 11-3 with a BCS loss

2007 is disappointing, culminating with an 8-4 record and a loss in the Cotton Bowl

2008 Texas is knocked out of the National Title game with an upset loss in the Big 12 CG. They route their Cotton Bowl opponent to finish in the top 5.

2009 Another disappointing season, going 8-5 with an embarrassing loss in a 2nd tier bowl.

2010 A 10-win season and a tie for their division crown, but fate drops them to a 2nd tier bowl again, where they lose.

2011 They win their division, but lose the CG. They again route their Cotton Bowl opponent.

2012 After lofty preseason rankings in the top 5, Texas implodes and goes 5-6.

2013 An improved team from the previous year, the Horns drop 3 conference games and are looking at a mid-level bowl game again.

In 2014, how do you evaluate Brown? Does he get the boot, or do they build a statue to him in Austin?

I would like to hear what the Volnation has to say.

this will never happen brown isn't the greatest coach, but he can recruit, the verdict is still out on phil if he can even do that anymore.

 

[volinbham]

Interesting analogy - partially it would depend on the strength of the Big 12 during that time period.

Another interesting analogy would be Lloyd Carr at Michigan - not meeting fan expectations for several years but this year in contention for NC. Should he have been fired after last year?

 

[hatvol96]

Well, as I was reading another thread that was rehashing for the millionth time whether Fulmer should be evaluated today on his 1) significant career achievements at UT, or 2) disappointing results over the past 5-8 years, it occurred to me that Mack Brown at Texas is in a very similar position as Fulmer was in Knoxville in 1999. I would be interested to know, if we knew what brown would do in his next 7 years, how would he be evaluated?

So, look into the future, and see that:

Texas finishes this year at 11-3 with a BCS loss

2007 is disappointing, culminating with an 8-4 record and a loss in the Cotton Bowl

2008 Texas is knocked out of the National Title game with an upset loss in the Big 12 CG. They route their Cotton Bowl opponent to finish in the top 5.

2009 Another disappointing season, going 8-5 with an embarrassing loss in a 2nd tier bowl.

2010 A 10-win season and a tie for their division crown, but fate drops them to a 2nd tier bowl again, where they lose.

2011 They win their division, but lose the CG. They again route their Cotton Bowl opponent.

2012 After lofty preseason rankings in the top 5, Texas implodes and goes 5-6.

2013 An improved team from the previous year, the Horns drop 3 conference games and are looking at a mid-level bowl game again.

In 2014, how do you evaluate Brown? Does he get the boot, or do they build a statue to him in Austin?

I would like to hear what the Volnation has to say.

If Mack Brown went 5-6 in 2012, there'd be no 2013 and 2014.

 

[champyvol]

Interesting analogy - partially it would depend on the strength of the Big 12 during that time period.

Another interesting analogy would be Lloyd Carr at Michigan - not meeting fan expectations for several years but this year in contention for NC. Should he have been fired after last year?

no, he didn't finish with a losing record in that time and he won the big ten title and went to some BCS bowls. he will probably do it again this year.

 

[tvolsfan]

Well, as I was reading another thread that was rehashing for the millionth time whether Fulmer should be evaluated today on his 1) significant career achievements at UT, or 2) disappointing results over the past 5-8 years, it occurred to me that Mack Brown at Texas is in a very similar position as Fulmer was in Knoxville in 1999. I would be interested to know, if we knew what brown would do in his next 7 years, how would he be evaluated?

So, look into the future, and see that:

Texas finishes this year at 11-3 with a BCS loss

2007 is disappointing, culminating with an 8-4 record and a loss in the Cotton Bowl

2008 Texas is knocked out of the National Title game with an upset loss in the Big 12 CG. They route their Cotton Bowl opponent to finish in the top 5.

2009 Another disappointing season, going 8-5 with an embarrassing loss in a 2nd tier bowl.

2010 A 10-win season and a tie for their division crown, but fate drops them to a 2nd tier bowl again, where they lose.

2011 They win their division, but lose the CG. They again route their Cotton Bowl opponent.

2012 After lofty preseason rankings in the top 5, Texas implodes and goes 5-6.

2013 An improved team from the previous year, the Horns drop 3 conference games and are looking at a mid-level bowl game again.

In 2014, how do you evaluate Brown? Does he get the boot, or do they build a statue to him in Austin?

I would like to hear what the Volnation has to say.

Wow, I must say, I have said Fulmer should get at least one more year, but looking at that all together, and even with the simplest thing as a name change makes me wonder. I could definately see myself firing Brown in that situation.

 

[tvolsfan]

Interesting analogy - partially it would depend on the strength of the Big 12 during that time period.

Another interesting analogy would be Lloyd Carr at Michigan - not meeting fan expectations for several years but this year in contention for NC. Should he have been fired after last year?

Counting this year, Carr will have 5 BCS bowls.
Not including this year, 5 Big 10 championships too. A few second place finishes. Carr is winning a lot more championships at the moment.

Also, Carr has a winning record against every singler team he has faced at least 3 times, except Notre Dame who he is .500 against. I think that is pretty impressive.

 

[champyvol]

Counting this year, Carr will have 5 BCS bowls.
Not including this year, 5 Big 10 championships too. A few second place finishes. Carr is winning a lot more championships at the moment.

fulmer isn't in the same category and they were talking about carr being on the hotseat at the beginning of the season. i wish our fans were more like michigan and expected more. i guess that is why they are on top and we arn't.

 

[tvolsfan]

fulmer isn't in the same category and they were talking about carr being on the hotseat at the beginning of the season. i wish our fans were more like michigan and expected more. i guess that is why they are on top and we arn't.

Michigan has and always will be one of the best programs in the country. They are able to reap the talent from everywhere up there, and Ohio is a good enough college football state for OSU and Michigan to share.

I know people blame Fulmer for recruiting struggles now, but I won't be expecting them to compare with Michigan the moment, just because Michigan is sorrounded by lesser teams excluding OSU and Notre Dame.

 

[kptvol]

Mack Brown won't hang on to crappy coaches for way too long. He also has continued to build on the momentum gained by winning the national championship. I would be pretty surprised if Texas doesn't go undefeated next year.

 

[tvolsfan]

Mack Brown won't hang on to crappy coaches for way too long. He also has continued to build on the momentum gained by winning the national championship. I would be pretty surprised if Texas doesn't go undefeated next year.

It doesn't look like they have the defense for that.

 

[cotton]

Mack Brown won't hang on to crappy coaches for way too long. He also has continued to build on the momentum gained by winning the national championship. I would be pretty surprised if Texas doesn't go undefeated next year.

There were a lot of people in '99 that thought Tennessee would stay on the top of the heap forever, as well. Very few coaches have been able to do it for extended periods of time.

Besides, that wasn't the question. The question was, what if Texas doesn't stay on top? Is, as pointed out in another thread, 10-3 in 3 out of 4 years good enough with a 5-6 thrown in the middle? Is compiling a guady winning percentage good enough without winning the conference? Is winning a National Championship good enough if you go a decade without getting back to the BCS?

I'm a Fulmer supporter, and I'm inclined to look at some of the reasons those things occurred rather than just the results, and that is the reason I chose to look at Texas. If it were a program where I don't have an inherent bias, the reasons don't matter, just the results, and looking at it objectively, I really don't know on which side I would fall.

 

[kptvol]

There were a lot of people in '99 that thought Tennessee would stay on the top of the heap forever, as well. Very few coaches have been able to do it for extended periods of time.

Besides, that wasn't the question. The question was, what if Texas doesn't stay on top? Is, as pointed out in another thread, 10-3 in 3 out of 4 years good enough with a 5-6 thrown in the middle? Is compiling a guady winning percentage good enough without winning the conference? Is winning a National Championship good enough if you go a decade without getting back to the BCS?

I'm a Fulmer supporter, and I'm inclined to look at some of the reasons those things occurred rather than just the results, and that is the reason I chose to look at Texas. If it were a program where I don't have an inherent bias, the reasons don't matter, just the results, and looking at it objectively, I really don't know on which side I would fall.

I think they will stay competitive for the national title for a number of years. They will at the very least continue to dominate the Big 12 and can surely expect a Big 12 title every five years. Hell, they can probably expect one every other year. If Texas slides to being second tier Big 12 team, Mack Brown will be fired. They expect to win.

 

[Lexvol]

Mack Brown won't hang on to crappy coaches for way too long. He also has continued to build on the momentum gained by winning the national championship. I would be pretty surprised if Texas doesn't go undefeated next year.

In other words, he used his championship to recruit harder, instead of sitting on his fat......

 

[kptvol]

In other words, he used his championship to recruit harder, instead of sitting on his fat......

You are correct, sir.

 

[hatvol96]

In other words, he used his championship to recruit harder, instead of sitting on his fat......

There you go again. Why can't you just enjoy whatever mediocre bowl bid we recieve these days? You need to pull out the '98 highlight DVD. Did they even have DVDs then? I believe that may have been on Beta Max.

 

[tvolsfan]

There you go again. Why can't you just enjoy whatever mediocre bowl bid we recieve these days? You need to pull out the '98 highlight DVD. Did they even have DVDs then? I believe that may have been on Beta Max.

:lolabove::rofl:

 

[Lexvol]

There you go again. Why can't you just enjoy whatever mediocre bowl bid we recieve these days? You need to pull out the '98 highlight DVD. Did they even have DVDs then? I believe that may have been on Beta Max.

Your right. I apologize, I mean CPF is only human. He is a good family man who really loves his players. Especially Robert Peace.

 

[Vercingetorix]

Well, as I was reading another thread that was rehashing for the millionth time whether Fulmer should be evaluated today on his 1) significant career achievements at UT, or 2) disappointing results over the past 5-8 years, it occurred to me that Mack Brown at Texas is in a very similar position as Fulmer was in Knoxville in 1999. I would be interested to know, if we knew what brown would do in his next 7 years, how would he be evaluated?

So, look into the future, and see that:

.....

I would like to hear what the Volnation has to say.

I had to register and de-lurk just to thank you for this instructive little thought-experiment; it has certainly clarified my thinking about our coaching situation. As another poster said, something as small as changing one name somehow makes me look at it differently.

We have been a good team since 1998, but that's all -- just pretty good. Since then, Florida has gone through one transitional coach, hired the right guy, and is poised to play for a national title again. Georgia fired a coach who was winning 8-10 games per year, hired Mark Richt, and won two SEC championships. In the meantime, our moribund program has sunk to third-best in the division, and we've played in such a parade of mediocre bowls that the Chick-fil-A/Peach may not want us this year because we've been there so often. Georgia and Florida have been moving ahead, and we've become a perennial Peach Bowl team.

I've been a supporter of Fulmer, but now I have to reluctantly admit that our program is basically stagnant; 1998 was a long time ago. And unfortunately, I don't see how things are going to change until the man at the top does.

 

[allvol]

Considering that in the 5 seasons previous to Mack Brown arriving at Texas, the Longhorns, under
John Mackovic, were 6-5, 5-5-1, 8-4, 10-2-1, 8-5, and 4-7....... and the 5 seasons before that with David McWilliams were 7-5, 4-7, 5-6, 10-2, and 5-6.... I think they would hang onto old Mack.

 

[Hoosier_Vol]

Texas has more talent right now and for the next few season than UT does peroid. Texas I believe right now has the #1 class in the nation coming in next season. Factor that with who they have now and they should be a top 5 team for the next 5 years and a title contender each season. I don't think you can compare a SEC coach and a Big 12 coacxh or any other conference coach. Differant schedules and non game factors play in too recruiting. We can have a better record that Miami the next 5 years and they'll still out recruit us no matter who the coach is here. Simple fact.

 

[ddubb76]

fulmer isn't in the same category and they were talking about carr being on the hotseat at the beginning of the season. i wish our fans were more like michigan and expected more. i guess that is why they are on top and we arn't.

I really dont think that our fans are the reason we have not fired Fulmer or the reason why we lost 3 games this year.

 

[tdtnvols2004]

Interesting. Looks like Tennessee's years the past 7 or 8.

 

[SMVTT]

I believe he will retire at the end of his current contract which expires in 2012 - that's when some of you ought to start worrying.

 

[General Jack]

Texas has an inherent advantage with recruiting. Half their roster grew up wanting to play for the longhorns. But their fans are just as fickle as we are, even more so given their belief its a God given right for Texas to be at the top of football with the same old Texas logic, "bigger is better, so therefore we must be better." gag

Texas would immediately can Mack Brown if he went 5-6. Brown is still not considered to be a great coach by many of the longhorn faithful - and he doesn't have the advantage of being a Texas born & raised, or even a player or alum. The general consensus around here is that Vince Young won the NC, not Mack Brown.