Fulmer Haters Speak!

[TNnative]

I remember all the whining and complaining when Fulmer had a dip in team quality, wins, and struggle with hiring a couple of misfit coordinators. But, I have a question, or questions for you. Do you really think that if Fulmer had not been fired that we would lose 14 straight to arguably our biggest rival? Do you think he would have lost to Kentucky two or three times during the last 12 seasons. Do you think he would have lost to Vanderbilt 4 or 5 times during that stint. Do you think we would have beaten Florida more than ONCE in the last 12 years? Yes, he hit a rough spot by his own misgivings but IMO he loves UT enough and has so much pride in the UT program, that he would have done everything possible to right the ship. This fiasco of the ridiculous coaching carousel would not be happening.

I know this is all conjecture now and this is purely a frustration post. Yeah, I'm saying I told you Fulmer haters so. Your thoughts?

Well, I remember the lead up to Fulmer being fired. But he finally got to be the AD, the head honcho, whatever you want to call it. And the fiasco of his last few years as HC pretty much was the same thing with him as AD. Sorry Mike, but had he not been fired when he was? It would have happened by the next season. The big mistake Hamilton made was not firing Fulmer, it was finding a competent replacement.

 

[TNnative]

Fulmer raised the bar with the amazing record & accomplishments from the mid-nineties to the early 2000s. Unfortunately, poor recruiting in his last few seasons and inability to adapt to the game were his downfalls. I doubt he would be beating or competing for the SEC with the elite coaches the league has now. If you want to point the blame, look no further than Mike Hamilton after he decided to part ways with Phil. In 2008 after Fulmer was canned, UT had reached ATL 3 times from 2001-2008. The program was much more attractive to better coaches. Hamilton’s horrible hires put UT in bad shape. With that being said, I do not like what I am seeing on the field right now. We are stuck with this suck which makes it even worse. The guy you are pining for (CFP) hired the coach that is in charge of this pile of crap. I am typically optimistic but the Vols are making that tough. Hopefully UT starts to turn things around beating the hogs after the bye week.

You know, it is easy to just blame the onfield results. The off field crap was what got the whole thing rolling. The last couple of years he was the HC, I remember seeing multiple copies of the News Sentinel with players on the front page rather than the Sport's page. It was not for good deeds, like helping little old ladies cross the street. And there were several incidents that gave the program a black eye from a public perspective; the Bar Knoxville incident being one of the biggest ones with several players involved in that brawl. Yeah, the losses were the final straw, but he might have weathered the storm and retained more support had it not been for so many of his players being perceived as thugs. Of course, those who took the job afterward have all had their incidents of players being arrested, but they did a better job of at least acting like they gave a damn. Fulmer came across with a devil may care attitude. He thought 1998 made him immune from being fired. He was wrong.

You guys can mourn Foolmer getting fired all you want, but he did it to himself, along with a few of his less disciplined players. And as to Hamilton? IMO, he was forced into firing him.

 

[volsknx]

Late to the party on this one... But absolutely wild to me that

-Fulmer hires Pruitt
-Pruitt takes the train off roading
-"Bet you wish we'd have kept Fulmer!"- OP

Oh you mean the guy that has taken two turns with the shovel digging this hole with two seperate job titles, taking a large chunk of money to leave in both occasions?

Why no, actually. I don't wish we never fired him and I'm glad he's gone. The bigger mistake was rehiring him in a capacity he had no position being in. Thanks for getting us to relevancy and winning us a championship. But the fact that he hired Pruitt and defended him until the bitter end basically tells me exactly what kind of program Phil would have run if we never fired him, and it sucks.

Ha ha “recruiting improved”!

 

[OrangeBeachVol]

The FB program could have been quickly brought back to the top after Fulmer's firing if a good coach had been hired right after. It was still a respected program at that time and a good coach could have been hired. Kiffin?? He was young and stupid then but had potential. After that it was a series of bad hires that has the program in the toilet now. Fulmer fired himself.

 

[ksgovols]

Well, I remember the lead up to Fulmer being fired. But he finally got to be the AD, the head honcho, whatever you want to call it. And the fiasco of his last few years as HC pretty much was the same thing with him as AD. Sorry Mike, but had he not been fired when he was? It would have happened by the next season. The big mistake Hamilton made was not firing Fulmer, it was finding a competent replacement.

Or a competent attorney that could review a one sided contract on the University's behalf. What kind of Mickey Mouse outfit were we running? It's all one big mistake when you fire the established coach and don't have a competent replacement waiting in the wings and locked up contractually.

 

[PEPPERJAX]

You know, it is easy to just blame the onfield results. The off field crap was what got the whole thing rolling. The last couple of years he was the HC, I remember seeing multiple copies of the News Sentinel with players on the front page rather than the Sport's page. It was not for good deeds, like helping little old ladies cross the street. And there were several incidents that gave the program a black eye from a public perspective; the Bar Knoxville incident being one of the biggest ones with several players involved in that brawl. Yeah, the losses were the final straw, but he might have weathered the storm and retained more support had it not been for so many of his players being perceived as thugs. Of course, those who took the job afterward have all had their incidents of players being arrested, but they did a better job of at least acting like they gave a damn. Fulmer came across with a devil may care attitude. He thought 1998 made him immune from being fired. He was wrong.

You guys can mourn Foolmer getting fired all you want, but he did it to himself, along with a few of his less disciplined players. And as to Hamilton? IMO, he was forced into firing him.

I forgot all about this post. I agree with you that MH probably was forced to can PF but MH was not forced to make horrible hires once he axed Phil.

 

[TNnative]

I forgot all about this post. I agree with you that MH probably was forced to can PF but MH was not forced to make horrible hires once he axed Phil.

I never said he was. That is solely on him, unless some donor or booster behind the scenes was sticking his nose into the selection process. Which is believed to have happen at least once during this century.

 

[TNnative]

Or a competent attorney that could review a one sided contract on the University's behalf. What kind of Mickey Mouse outfit were we running? It's all one big mistake when you fire the established coach and don't have a competent replacement waiting in the wings and locked up contractually.

IMO, Tennessee football has been run more like a tame version of Game of Thrones than a competent sports program. That, IMO, is exactly the Mickey Mouse outfit we have had over there. Hopefully Danny White can buck the trend that previous ADs were unable or unwilling to stand up to. That is the only hope for it.

 

[TNnative]

The FB program could have been quickly brought back to the top after Fulmer's firing if a good coach had been hired right after. It was still a respected program at that time and a good coach could have been hired. Kiffin?? He was young and stupid then but had potential. After that it was a series of bad hires that has the program in the toilet now. Fulmer fired himself.

They could have had Gary Patterson. Now, I am not sure he would have been able to win SEC and national Championships at Tennessee, but he would have easily beaten the Hell outta hiring Kiffin, Dooley Jones and Pruitt

 

[PEPPERJAX]

I never said he was. That is solely on him, unless some donor or booster behind the scenes was sticking his nose into the selection process. Which is believed to have happen at least once during this century.

Right never said you did. Point I was trying to make is MH compounded the problems with UT football with his bad decisions. Just adding my 2 cents.

 

[TNnative]

The FB program could have been quickly brought back to the top after Fulmer's firing if a good coach had been hired right after. It was still a respected program at that time and a good coach could have been hired. Kiffin?? He was young and stupid then but had potential. After that it was a series of bad hires that has the program in the toilet now. Fulmer fired himself.

Potential as an OC? Maybe. But as a HC? Keep an eye on Ole Miss over the next few years. Give it time. His number one potential is in his history. Look into some of his nonsense during his time with Oakland, Tennessee, USC, and as OC for Saban. I am betting he does something dumb sooner or later, and lands the rebels in hot water again. A tiger does not change it's stripes, and I doubt Kiffin has either.

 

[TNnative]

Right never said you did. Point I was trying to make is MH compounded the problems with UT football with his bad decisions. Just adding my 2 cents.

Well that 2 cents is pretty much agreed on universally here. It is the firing Fulmer part most want to lay solely at his feet. But it was pretty obvious at the time that the firing was motivated by more than a few losses. As time passes, the lead up gets forgotten.

 

[Jeepkuntry]

Fulmer coasted. His coordinators made the 90's what they were. Argue all you want but when Richt went to GA that was the beginning of the end to Fulmer.

 

[beamerman]

I remember all the whining and complaining when Fulmer had a dip in team quality, wins, and struggle with hiring a couple of misfit coordinators. But, I have a question, or questions for you. Do you really think that if Fulmer had not been fired that we would lose 14 straight to arguably our biggest rival? Do you think he would have lost to Kentucky two or three times during the last 12 seasons. Do you think he would have lost to Vanderbilt 4 or 5 times during that stint. Do you think we would have beaten Florida more than ONCE in the last 12 years? Yes, he hit a rough spot by his own misgivings but IMO he loves UT enough and has so much pride in the UT program, that he would have done everything possible to right the ship. This fiasco of the ridiculous coaching carousel would not be happening.

I know this is all conjecture now and this is purely a frustration post. Yeah, I'm saying I told you Fulmer haters so. Your thoughts?

I don’t see any scenario where Fulmer beats Saban, or Smart. Maybe Mac once.

 

[beamerman]

In my opinion, Fulmer's biggest downfall (as stated) was recruiting.....specifically Richt, Meyers, Saban, and Miles. These coaches simply cut the recruiting pipelines off.

Bingo. Fulmer was not a great coach, he just out talented teams for wins.

 

[JonGrudensAgent]

Fulmer coasted. His coordinators made the 90's what they were. Argue all you want but when Richt went to GA that was the beginning of the end to Fulmer.

Yep.

That GA pipeline being slowed down did a lot of damage in recruiting. Lewis, Coleman, Grant all had a hand in the high points under Fulmer and all were from GA.

 

[guesscrazy]

Fulmer was getting beat on the recruiting trail in his waning years. Don't know what changed but the horses were going elsewhere. He was suffering pretty lopsided losses too. I guess we forgot.. It was time for a change but we hired the wrong guy, then made a panic hire, then Botch, and now Forrest Gump. It's not too hard to figure out.

Here is what changed. At Ankars on Brainard Road in Chattanooga I was told by the resident bookie that PF had a gf in Chattanooga and recruiting was limited to the Chattanooga area ie none at all. This was in the years after the NC. I am sorta pissed to this day. I am a Marion county boy and he is a Franklin county boy. He lost the drive.................

 

[Volitaire]

Here is what changed. At Ankars on Brainard Road in Chattanooga I was told by the resident bookie that PF had a gf in Chattanooga and recruiting was limited to the Chattanooga area ie none at all. This was in the years after the NC. I am sorta pissed to this day. I am a Marion county boy and he is a Franklin county boy. He lost the drive.................

He got Demonte Bolden and Gerald Riggs to name a few out of Chattanooga

 

[Volitaire]

Yep.

That GA pipeline being slowed down did a lot of damage in recruiting. Lewis, Coleman, Grant all had a hand in the high points under Fulmer and all were from GA.

Combo of this and losing a Cuttcliffe fundamentally sound offense

 

[Volitaire]

Potential as an OC? Maybe. But as a HC? Keep an eye on Ole Miss over the next few years. Give it time. His number one potential is in his history. Look into some of his nonsense during his time with Oakland, Tennessee, USC, and as OC for Saban. I am betting he does something dumb sooner or later, and lands the rebels in hot water again. A tiger does not change it's stripes, and I doubt Kiffin has either.

Kiffin has skirted the line but he has never put a program in a position like High Freeze did, im just happy we found a coach with a similar offense

 

[OllVol]

We would still be in really bad shape if we stuck with Fulmer. Without the right coordinators in place, he was not a great coach. I give Coach Cut most of the credit for our successes under Fulmer. Outside of Cut and Chavis, Phil pulled some bonehead hires for coordinators. He needed to go when he was ousted. Which brings up the true culprit of our failures. Mike Hamilton. If he had been fired prior to Fulmer and we had somebody competent in that position, the chances of our out of control downward spiral would have been lessened greatly. We were still in a good position to hire a quality coach after Phil. And I think the Kiffin hire could have been a good one that could have taken us in the right direction. His year one was fun and exciting. But his contract was written up to make it too easy to leave. Then our desperation set in and we started trying to make chicken salad out of chicken **** coaches. Seriously. What in Gods name made Dooley look like a decent hire?

I remember the day Dooley was hired. I was listening to an interview with Hamilton on the 'sports's talk' radio station and Hamilton told Jimmy Hyams that he'd had a 15 minute phone call with Dooley (phone call!) and offered him the job. Before even meeting the guy face to face. Hired him based on a phone call.

 

[TNnative]

Kiffin has skirted the line but he has never put a program in a position like High Freeze did, im just happy we found a coach with a similar offense

High Freeze? Sounds like something you buy for a kid when he behaves himself.

 

[TNnative]

I remember the day Dooley was hired. I was listening to an interview with Hamilton on the 'sports's talk' radio station and Hamilton told Jimmy Hyams that he'd had a 15 minute phone call with Dooley (phone call!) and offered him the job. Before even meeting the guy face to face. Hired him based on a phone call.

The timing of Kiffin leaving gave him very few options. I think that happened (somebody correct me if I am wrong) like 8 to 10 days before NSD. Hammy's choices at the time were severely limited.

 

[JRich]

The way I remember it, Fulmer was getting heat because he couldn't beat Florida, then he had a few really bad losses and a couple of losing seasons that sealed his fate. You can't sit here and claim that things would have been better if he had been allowed to stay. There were good coaches out there when Fulmer was fired. The UT admin just made poor choices.

 

[volsknx]

Unfortunately Fulmer as an AD beat Hamilton for the most worthless AD of all time

This all day. Not only should he have never been given the AD position but He should have never been in position to be given it! Thanks to the former chancellor!

Chavis is easily one of the most overrated DCs of all time

This is absolutely true and fact! If he does not have superior talent, he loses. This has been true every where he has coached and been the DC

No hate, just fact. Fulmer was the worst athletic director in the history of the program and maybe the SEC. I would still like to know the details of just how he weaseled his way in there. Bet those facts do not come out for a period of years.

In my opinion no one has done more to destroy UT football than Phillip Fulmer. And it is all about ego.

This all day long. The guy has raked in millions upon millions only to leave two utter messes behind him while blaming “middle management” for his first firing. Wonder what he thinks about “middle management” now?

Well, I remember the lead up to Fulmer being fired. But he finally got to be the AD, the head honcho, whatever you want to call it. And the fiasco of his last few years as HC pretty much was the same thing with him as AD. Sorry Mike, but had he not been fired when he was? It would have happened by the next season. The big mistake Hamilton made was not firing Fulmer, it was finding a competent replacement.

I don’t know how anyone could not tell after the ‘01 season that the program was in decline. I know a couple of posters bring up his last two SECCG appearances while trying to diminish his two losing seasons in four years. One constantly uses the term “sabbatical” lol.

The FB program could have been quickly brought back to the top after Fulmer's firing if a good coach had been hired right after. It was still a respected program at that time and a good coach could have been hired. Kiffin?? He was young and stupid then but had potential. After that it was a series of bad hires that has the program in the toilet now. Fulmer fired himself.

I have agreed with that. Disgruntled posters claim we would have been on probation. Maybe, but nothing major and had he stayed, we would be in much better shape. National Championship with CLK? I don’t know but dude brought attention to the program and recruits and, he had some good coaches on staff.

Fulmer coasted. His coordinators made the 90's what they were. Argue all you want but when Richt went to GA that was the beginning of the end to Fulmer.

I knew when he pulled Garner back to Georgia that we were in trouble!

Yep.

That GA pipeline being slowed down did a lot of damage in recruiting. Lewis, Coleman, Grant all had a hand in the high points under Fulmer and all were from GA.

Coaching across the SEC board did him in. First it was Saban building up LSU then a few years later at Bama. Richt at Georgia, especially in ‘01, showed what was to come. Fulmer just couldn’t compete with him. Miles kept the train rolling at LSU. Meyer at Florida just thumped him and thumped him badly. Even Vandy, lowly Vandy whipped him.

This is not including the two Peach Bowl no shows, the constant complaining whether it was not receiving a New Years Day Bowl, injuries, troubles off the field and total loss of control of the program. Then you have Davenport just sliding him into the AD position to try to save her azz.