Fulmer debate extravaganza (merged)

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"you are what you are"

Maybe the most overused cliche in sports next to "the game will be won in the trenches" or maybe "they came to play."
 
He was doing so good in the end that Tennessee was winning all kinds of championships. Yeah, that's why he was fired! Because he was winning!
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He was doing so good in the end that Tennessee was winning all kinds of championships. Yeah, that's why he was fired! Because he was winning!
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Winning 9+ games two out of the last 3 years vs scrapping to win 7, but ending up with two 5 win seasons, one 6, and one 7? So much better off. I'm curious to hear the answer to what the other guy asked regarding what good things have happened since firing Fulmer.
 
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Winning 9+ games two out of the last 3 years vs scrapping to win 7, but ending up with two 5 win seasons, one 6, and one 7? So much better off. I'm curious to hear the answer to what the other guy asked regarding what good things have happened since firing Fulmer.

That was MY question and I'm still waiting.
 
Winning 9+ games two out of the last 3 years vs scrapping to win 7, but ending up with two 5 win seasons, one 6, and one 7? So much better off. I'm curious to hear the answer to what the other guy asked regarding what good things have happened since firing Fulmer.[/QU To start your response you really meant to state 2 out of last 4 years didn't you?
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Winning 9+ games two out of the last 3 years vs scrapping to win 7, but ending up with two 5 win seasons, one 6, and one 7? So much better off. I'm curious to hear the answer to what the other guy asked regarding what good things have happened since firing Fulmer.[/QU To start your response you really meant to state 2 out of last 4 years didn't you?
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While that holds true, just like what I said, I could've said 3 of his last 5, 4 of his last 6, 5 of his last 8 (one 8 win), etc. as well. Just shows you what picking and choosing does in an argument, which most anti Fulmer posters tend to do. No one has yet to answer the question of what good has come from firing him.
 
fulmer shouldn't have been fired because hamilton hired two busts? that's hindsight bias and invalid logic.
 
fulmer shouldn't have been fired because hamilton hired two busts? that's hindsight bias and invalid logic.

Ok, do you think that Joe Torre deserved to be fired from the Yankees? Do you think Bobby Cox should've been fired from the Braves? Just wondering.
 
While that holds true, just like what I said, I could've said 3 of his last 5, 4 of his last 6, 5 of his last 8 (one 8 win), etc. as well. Just shows you what picking and choosing does in an argument, which most anti Fulmer posters tend to do. No one has yet to answer the question of what good has come from firing him.

Not necessary to answer that question. PF was on a downward slide and he would have had a difficult time, just as difficult, as Kiffin or Dooley (well, maybe not Dooley) in achieving many more, "IF ANY" wins. Check out his last four years production, vs. the previous four. A DOWNWARD SLIDE. He did win 58% of his games the last four years, including those 9 and 10 win seasons, still only .580. That is why his coaching career was terminated. The best thing to come out of his termination is that he could not slide along, dragging the program farther downhill. And clueless MH's decision on choosing his successors is what led to the current disaster. Fulmer, arguably would have done little better, maybe a win or two more at best, considering his .580 performance. After all, even with a decent couple of recruiting classes from 02-08, he couldn't even reach the top 5 or top 10, even missing the top 20 three times.
 
Not necessary to answer that question. PF was on a downward slide and he would have had a difficult time, just as difficult, as Kiffin or Dooley (well, maybe not Dooley) in achieving many more, "IF ANY" wins. Check out his last four years production, vs. the previous four. A DOWNWARD SLIDE. He did win 58% of his games the last four years, including those 9 and 10 win seasons, still only .580. That is why his coaching career was terminated. The best thing to come out of his termination is that he could not slide along, dragging the program farther downhill. And clueless MH's decision on choosing his successors is what led to the current disaster. Fulmer, arguably would have done little better, maybe a win or two more at best, considering his .580 performance. After all, even with a decent couple of recruiting classes from 02-08, he couldn't even reach the top 5 or top 10, even missing the top 20 three times.

But do you not think that Fulmer would've gotten rid of the reason for his last 5 win season (Clawson) after that season? There's no way to say that his next OC wouldn't have done better than Clawson with the likes of Tajh Boyd at the helm. That's the thing. After every "bad" year (in quotes because everyone thinks 8 wins is awful), he rebounded with 9+. Every time. That's a trend that anti Fulmers don't pay attention to.
 
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Not necessary to answer that question. PF was on a downward slide and he would have had a difficult time, just as difficult, as Kiffin or Dooley (well, maybe not Dooley) in achieving many more, "IF ANY" wins. Check out his last four years production, vs. the previous four. A DOWNWARD SLIDE. He did win 58% of his games the last four years, including those 9 and 10 win seasons, still only .580. That is why his coaching career was terminated. The best thing to come out of his termination is that he could not slide along, dragging the program farther downhill. And clueless MH's decision on choosing his successors is what led to the current disaster. Fulmer, arguably would have done little better, maybe a win or two more at best, considering his .580 performance. After all, even with a decent couple of recruiting classes from 02-08, he couldn't even reach the top 5 or top 10, even missing the top 20 three times.

Dragging, with the hope/legitimate expectations of being in the hunt for the conference championship VS the freefall and the legitimate expectation is to not finish behind Kentucky. Hmm, tough choice.
 
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Ok, do you think that Joe Torre deserved to be fired from the Yankees? Do you think Bobby Cox should've been fired from the Braves? Just wondering.

torre--probably, since he was not winning enough titles with that huge payroll

cox--yes---he won 1 title in about 18 years, even with a roster in the 90s filled with 3 cy young / hall of fame pitchers
 
Dragging, with the hope/legitimate expectations of being in the hunt for the conference championship VS the freefall and the legitimate expectation is to not finish behind Kentucky. Hmm, tough choice.

Boyd, as one player, wasn't going to lead PF to the promised land, and backing up to PF's last four years and continuing that into the Kiffin "year," there is no evidence that PF would have won any more games than did Kiffin. But, to throw PF a bone, give him one more win than Kiffin wound up with, give him 8 wins instead of 7, and PF will wind up at 61%, .610, which would have been close to his last four years at .580. Still way below average. What had happened was PF had recruited poorly and Kiffin slid through (everyone blinked and missed him) the one year with 7 wins, partially as a result of the previous poor recruiting and partially his own poor coaching/play calling. Further, Some of the Dooley debacle rests also on PF's poor recruiting, poor recruiting follows a team through more than one coach. That said, Dooley deserves a lot of grief for what happened here and he should never go near another college football stadium. He was the bigger of Hamilton's two asinine selection decisions.
 
Could someone short story this for me, please ? (758 pages) Holy Cow !
And yes, I'm pullin for bbbbbbbbbbaaaaaaammmmmmaaaa !
Darn, I can't believe I just said that !
GO SEC !!!
 
Fulmer was fired for the Kiffin-Dooley experiment. Which worked perfectly. Other schools are looking into it now. Hams is giving seminars on how he pulled it off.
 
But do you not think that Fulmer would've gotten rid of the reason for his last 5 win season (Clawson) after that season? There's no way to say that his next OC wouldn't have done better than Clawson with the likes of Tajh Boyd at the helm. That's the thing. After every "bad" year (in quotes because everyone thinks 8 wins is awful), he rebounded with 9+. Every time. That's a trend that anti Fulmers don't pay attention to.

You don't quite understand the definition of trend.....and I keep waiting for the Fulmerites to step up and recognize that he was headed downhill. The numbers don't lie, but the heart may. This thread is like NCIS......at first all the shows get a rerun, then only 75% and eventually they get down to about 10 or so that they keep showing. He was good, he got lazy, he is gone, we are TRYING to move on. Why can't we just let it go.
 

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You don't quite understand the definition of trend.....and I keep waiting for the Fulmerites to step up and recognize that he was headed downhill. The numbers don't lie, but the heart may. This thread is like NCIS......at first all the shows get a rerun, then only 75% and eventually they get down to about 10 or so that they keep showing. He was good, he got lazy, he is gone, we are TRYING to move on. Why can't we just let it go.

Show me a coach who was with a team as long as Fulmer who didn't trend downwards at some point in his career. It happens. Meyer was below the SEC average, Spurrier has been for years, Auburn has, Miss. State has, UGA has, etc. This isn't a video game where you can go undefeated every single season. You will be brought back down. Look at Michigan, USC, etc. It happens.
 
Boyd, as one player, wasn't going to lead PF to the promised land, and backing up to PF's last four years and continuing that into the Kiffin "year," there is no evidence that PF would have won any more games than did Kiffin. But, to throw PF a bone, give him one more win than Kiffin wound up with, give him 8 wins instead of 7, and PF will wind up at 61%, .610, which would have been close to his last four years at .580. Still way below average. What had happened was PF had recruited poorly and Kiffin slid through (everyone blinked and missed him) the one year with 7 wins, partially as a result of the previous poor recruiting and partially his own poor coaching/play calling. Further, Some of the Dooley debacle rests also on PF's poor recruiting, poor recruiting follows a team through more than one coach. That said, Dooley deserves a lot of grief for what happened here and he should never go near another college football stadium. He was the bigger of Hamilton's two asinine selection decisions.

There is plenty of evidence he would not let the slide continue and that he would turn it around.
 
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