Ferguson Riots

#651
#651
Burhead said:
From Reddit:

KSDK LIVE 12:45: "The FBI will now take over a large part of the investigation into the shooting death of Michael Brown. The FBI will oversee all operations, protests, and other activities in Ferguson. Local police agencies, including St. Louis County Police, will now operate under the direction of the FBI. We've also learned the Department of Justice will send special prosecutors to Ferguson to help with the investigation."
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:whatever:
 
#653
#653
Burhead said:
From Reddit:

KSDK LIVE 12:45: "The FBI will now take over a large part of the investigation into the shooting death of Michael Brown. The FBI will oversee all operations, protests, and other activities in Ferguson. Local police agencies, including St. Louis County Police, will now operate under the direction of the FBI. We've also learned the Department of Justice will send special prosecutors to Ferguson to help with the investigation."
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Nothing good will come out of this decision.
 
#655
#655
Burhead said:
It's not just that officer, they are releasing names and addresses of pretty much every department involved.
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They're falsely identifying people. Anon for the most part are losers and frauds who know just enough to launch ddos attacks and nothing more.
 
#656
#656
Obsessed said:
Jessie and Al probably should have stayed home

BREAKING: Ferguson Police Chief Releases Astonishing New Information on the Michael Brown Shooting - BuzzPo
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Looks like a re-hash of the Fox interview last night. Not sure why he would release information like there was an altercation, shots fired in the car, police officer injured, etc. Then when asked straightforward questions about how many shots fired, how many times hit, etc, revert to the answer county was handling the investigation and he can't comment.
 
#657
#657
hog88 said:
Nothing good will come out of this decision.
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Agree. While I respect the FBI as an investigative institution, they are ill suited to run the day to day ops of a local police department. They are investigators mainly and are far removed from the local patrolman that deals with the public daily.

The DOJ angle also can't be good.
 
#659
#659
rjd970 said:
Looks like a re-hash of the Fox interview last night. Not sure why he would release information like there was an altercation, shots fired in the car, police officer injured, etc. Then when asked straightforward questions about how many shots fired, how many times hit, etc, revert to the answer county was handling the investigation and he can't comment.
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The amount of shots fired and hits on the victim here can be relevant to the investigation or inciting to those that can/will take things out of context. As discussed earlier in this thread, anything more than one shot will rapidly be damned by race baiters on the opposing side and condemned in the media.

He's not wrong for not releasing that information right now and I figure it will be released in due time.
 
#660
#660
Grand Vol said:
Agree. While I respect the FBI as an investigative institution, they are ill suited to run the day to day ops of a local police department. They are investigators mainly and are far removed from the local patrolman that deals with the public daily.

The DOJ angle also can't be good.
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They are being sent for political purposes only, I'm sure they have their instructions.
 
#661
#661
hog88 said:
They are being sent for political purposes only, I'm sure they have their instructions.
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I hope you aren't hitting the nail on the head...

But feel you are probably closer to the truth than I'd like to admit.
 
#662
#662
Grand Vol said:
The amount of shots fired and hits on the victim here can be relevant to the investigation or inciting to those that can/will take things out of context. As discussed earlier in this thread, anything more than one shot will rapidly be damned by race baiters on the opposing side and condemned in the media.

He's not wrong for not releasing that information right now and I figure it will be released in due time.
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Why can't he just say that? And why not just say no comment to every question? I'm legitimately curious.

I don't know if you watched that interview last night, but it looks like he was just answering questions about how the officer was hurt, saying there was a struggle in the car, and shots fired in the car. Any question about the actual shooting itself was not answered. Again, maybe there is a good reason, but it doesn't look good. It looks like there is one side of the story being told and any possible news that would make the officer look bad is not to be discussed.

I just don't know why he wouldn't answer "wait for the investigation to be complete" for every question on the specifics of the incident.
 
#663
#663
rjd970 said:
Why can't he just say that? And why not just say no comment to every question? I'm legitimately curious.

I don't know if you watched that interview last night, but it looks like he was just answering questions about how the officer was hurt, saying there was a struggle in the car, and shots fired in the car. Any question about the actual shooting itself was not answered. Again, maybe there is a good reason, but it doesn't look good. It looks like there is one side of the story being told and any possible news that would make the officer look bad is not to be discussed.

I just don't know why he wouldn't answer "wait for the investigation to be complete" for every question.
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Probably was advised by the DA to not comment.
 
#664
#664
rjd970 said:
Why can't he just say that? And why not just say no comment to every question? I'm legitimately curious.

I don't know if you watched that interview last night, but it looks like he was just answering questions about how the officer was hurt, saying there was a struggle in the car, and shots fired in the car. Any question about the actual shooting itself was not answered. Again, maybe there is a good reason, but it doesn't look good. It looks like there is one side of the story being told and any possible news that would make the officer look bad is not to be discussed.

I just don't know why he wouldn't answer "wait for the investigation to be complete" for every question on the specifics of the incident.
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When has an "officer involved shooting" looked good?
 
#666
#666
Grand Vol said:
I hope you aren't hitting the nail on the head...

But feel you are probably closer to the truth than I'd like to admit.
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I'm curious why the bypassed state police and handed jurisdiction over to the Feds. I would have at least given Missouri Highway Patrol a day or two to see if they were any better before handing it off. Agreed?
 
#667
#667
Burhead said:
I'm curious why the bypassed state police and handed jurisdiction over to the Feds. I would have at least given Missouri Highway Patrol a day or two to see if they were any better before handing it off. Agreed?
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What would it take for them to turn to martial law?
 
#668
#668
rjd970 said:
Why can't he just say that? And why not just say no comment to every question? I'm legitimately curious.

I don't know if you watched that interview last night, but it looks like he was just answering questions about how the officer was hurt, saying there was a struggle in the car, and shots fired in the car. Any question about the actual shooting itself was not answered. Again, maybe there is a good reason, but it doesn't look good. It looks like there is one side of the story being told and any possible news that would make the officer look bad is not to be discussed.

I just don't know why he wouldn't answer "wait for the investigation to be complete" for every question on the specifics of the incident.
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The amount of shots fired can (and most likely will) be the determining factor on whether too much or just enough force was used. An example:

Officer Smith feels himself under threat of serious bodily harm or death. Smith fires on the suspect to cease the activity which leads him to fire in the first place. Smith fires three shots during the engagement since the first two did not negate the threat posed by the suspect.

Or

Officer Smith fires ten rounds since the first nine didn't stop the threat.

Which one sounds worse in the eyes of the public? Reality being that sometimes it will take ten rounds or more to stop a threat. Sometimes it only takes one. Perception being reality in this case, anything over two or three will be seen by the public as being excessive. So the determining factor during the investigation here will be whether or not all ten rounds (I'm using that number since it keeps coming up) was excessive or warranted. And by saying that number, the Chief will open himself up to way more pointed questions and the perception (read reality) that the officer used excessive force on the victim here. When that might not be the case.

I didn't see the interview, but I would imagine he knows a lot more than he lets on and is trying to bring public opinion back towards the center by describing the situation and the aftermath of the incident. Right now, the perception is the officer shot without cause and shot a man with his hands up in the air. Just like Treyvon Martin was just wearing a hoodie and carrying a bag of Skittles, the public is believing what they want. Remember the initial pictures of the injuries of Zimmerman and how they were downplayed? And remember they were far worse than the media let on? Same thing is happening here as the media is taking what should be a neutral stance and siding with the victim by reporting allegations as "facts" without knowing or caring about what actually happened before or after.

And as I stated in another post, both sides taking their ball and going home doesn't get good media ratings. Police and citizens clashing in the streets does.
 
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#671
#671
Burhead said:
I'm curious why the bypassed state police and handed jurisdiction over to the Feds. I would have at least given Missouri Highway Patrol a day or two to see if they were any better before handing it off. Agreed?
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Wondered that same thing myself...

The only possible explanation I can pull out of my head is that the local NAACP asked for the FBI and this is a way of placating the masses. They are neutral and unbiased (just go with it) in the situation and might be acceptable to both sides in the matter.

Otherwise, again they are ill suited to that kind of work as their job is primarily investigations and not pounding the streets as patrolmen.
 
#672
#672
Obsessed said:
Ok.
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Long story short, the Governor can call out the NG under what's called Title 32 Orders. Which means they work for the State at that point and not the Federal Government. So the Posse Comitatus Act is not technically violated.

Under Title 10 Orders (Federalization) Posse Comitatus would have to be suspended by Executive Order in that location in order for NG troops under Federal control to enforce civil law.

It's a thin line, but there is a line there. Post Katrina all the things you heard about the military searching and confiscating was actually Louisiana Guard units under State control. As for later when the 82nd ABD patrolling the streets, I'm not sure how much latitude they had for civil arrest powers or if they were there as just a show of force.
 
#673
#673
Grand Vol said:
Long story short, the Governor can call out the NG under what's called Title 32 Orders. Which means they work for the State at that point and not the Federal Government. So the Posse Comitatus Act is not technically violated.

Under Title 10 Orders (Federalization) Posse Comitatus would have to be suspended by Executive Order in that location in order for NG troops under Federal control to enforce civil law.

It's a thin line, but there is a line there. Post Katrina all the things you heard about the military searching and confiscating was actually Louisiana Guard units under State control. As for later when the 82nd ABD patrolling the streets, I'm not sure how much latitude they had for civil arrest powers or if they were there as just a show of force.
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Thank you
 
#674
#674
VolsByNature said:
We've yet to evolve into a community that gets things done peacefully. That's why the states will continue to look at us like a problem, it's just the way it is.

A drug dealer gets locked up for 3 counts of murder for a drive by, we wear T shirts that says "Free Him"

A unarmed kid gets shot by police, we riot and cause mayhem. We've taken all attention off of how we can have justice served and help the family grieve.

Completely ass backwards and nothing will change until that stupid mentality changes
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Kudos to you, sir. The actions being taken create far more racial-relations damage than most may be aware. I have seen my father change in the past 5-6 years from having become a man of "reluctant acceptance" (e.g. "blacks got a raw deal so I guess it's fair they might get some benefits to help them advance in society") to now becoming more racist than I could ever imagine (e.g. "blacks ruin every city where they become the majority"). And it's events like this, and the Treyvon incident, and even some of Obama's statements, that fuel those racist views.

It seems we are regressing as a multiracial society, and just like in a marriage... once neither party cares about working on the relationship... it doesn't take long for apathy, then hatred, and even violence to build up.
 
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#675
#675
Grand Vol said:
Wondered that same thing myself...

The only possible explanation I can pull out of my head is that the local NAACP asked for the FBI and this is a way of placating the masses. They are neutral and unbiased (just go with it) in the situation and might be acceptable to both sides in the matter.

Otherwise, again they are ill suited to that kind of work as their job is primarily investigations and not pounding the streets as patrolmen.
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Looks like that may have been wrong intel. A Guardian reporter just tweeted this;

@jonswaine · 4m

Missouri Gov. Jay Nixon: Missouri highway patrol to be handed control of security in ferguson

Maybe the FBI is just handling the shooting incident?
 
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