Fair points for both sides from Andy Staples

#101
#101
05_never_again said:
Butch has totally failed to upgrade his offensive staff.
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I often wonder about this. I do think Butch knows what he wants in offensive coaches.

I was alright with Canales as QB coach. Perhaps Randy Sanders should have been a target. I would have like to have seen an up and coming OC.

Scott may become a good OC but at a lot of risk. I am guessing he will become a super recruiter if successful. Looks like boom or bust here.

I think Wells will recruit well but I hope he can coach. Obviously Butch thinks he can coach. I am guessing there are also budget issues.

I do agree that coaches must get along to work together. Nothing worse than your staff trying to climb over each other on the way up the ladder.

Retur to fundamental blocking tackling S&C
 
#103
#103
05_never_again said:
Get ready to hear a ton of excuses next year.

The skill position players that were responsible for nearly every yard of offense are gone (Dobbs, Kamara, Hurd, Malone). We lost both defensive ends, including one who set the all-time school record for sacks. Our two best defensive players next year are likely to be two DTs who are coming off multiple severe, season-ending injuries. We saw how much the linebackers struggled last year without JRM; now he's gone for good. We saw how much the secondary struggled last year without Sutton; now he's gone for good. Foreman is gone too; I suppose you can only go up from there but he was an experienced player. Color me skeptical that a new DBs coach can teach guys to turn around and find the ball in a single offseason.

2016 was Butch's time to make a move. He failed to, and in 2017 he is being expected to make a move again with a new QB and an overall inferior team.

Georgia Tech is an eminently loseable game next year. If Butch drops that one, it could be a season of doom. If you get past that one, there are still Florida and Georgia that he will be expected to beat.
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On paper and with everybody healthy we are the best team in the SEC East even with a new QB. New coaches will make the differences and some key freshmen.
 
#105
#105
Catbone said:
I think it's fair to say Butch is an average SEC coach. Better than Dooley of course, but is that good enough?
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You'd be a better coach than Dooley.

Butch is an above average SEC Coach. Saban skews the graph. I'd take Butch over a lot of other coaches in the SEC.
 
#106
#106
BigOrangeTrain said:
You dont know that.
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If we are to believe that Debord is the greatest OC at UT since Cut, then yeah we do. Wells replacing Mahoney, is neutral, little P5 experience, maybe he is better, but we don't know. We still have Zach Azzanni on staff, which keeps us in the hole at WR coaching. Canales, is only an upgrade in the fact that we didn't have a QB coach, but hiring a current RB coach who hasn't coached at P5 school in years to coach QBs, doesn't look like an upgrade. Then, if we are going with the idea that Debard was de'bomb, hiring Scott, with no OC experience period to replace him, is not an upgrade.

Overall, I'd say that we're either neutral with the potential to be slightly better, or we've downgraded, but we're not going to know which until we play GT.
 
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#107
#107
81Orange said:
Butch has the Bama autoloss from the west. You can add LSU for this year. Even if we beat FL and GA we may have to slide into ATL. Not worried about SC and Vandy if we are healthy. KY?
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Why are games against teams that beat us in 2016, and who return a significant portion of their teams in 2017, automatic wins for you?

Not to mention that CBJ has never beaten a Muschamp-coached team, and he's batting.500 against Vandy during his time at UT.

81Orange said:
Our DLine covered for a weak secondary the past few years. Just as Dobbs feet covered for a bad Oline. I welcome the new coaches. I hope Scott and Wells turn out to be superstars.
I think Deboard was helping out Butch.
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I'll have to go back and pull the post where I put the numbers together or our DLine. The fact is Stripling got replaced because nearly everyone ran through our Dline in 2016. App State, Ohio, VT, Georgia, USCe, Vandy.

Where does the problem lie? Shoop's scheme, Stripling's coaching, talent of personel? A combination of all? I don't know to be honest. Butch/Shoop seemed to think it was coaching and replaced Stripling, so I guess we'll find out if they were correct or not in a few months.
 
#110
#110
volnbama_ said:
.500 record is impressive. Even Dooley managed a better record vs Vandy
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Yeah, and Dooley lost to Kentucky. Funny how everyone is quick to remember his record vs Vandy, but he lost to KENTUCKY. He also didn't play Vanderbilt 4 times.

Losing to Vandy clearly isn't acceptable, but it isn't the end of the world either.
 
#111
#111
Vol_is_Lyfe18 said:
Yeah, and Dooley lost to Kentucky. Funny how everyone is quick to remember his record vs Vandy, but he lost to KENTUCKY. He also didn't play Vanderbilt 4 times.

Losing to Vandy clearly isn't acceptable, but it isn't the end of the world either.
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Hardly anything is end of the world, but that loss to Vanderbilt was an inexcusable turd in the punch bowl when we could have potentially been playing in the Sugar Bowl. Look at our recruiting this year (no sunshine pumping about diamonds in the rough please), and tell me that losing two games to South Carolina and Vanderbilt had no impact. It practically destroyed any excitement that had been built around the program.
 
#114
#114
Catbone said:
I think it's fair to say Butch is an average SEC coach. Better than Dooley of course, but is that good enough?
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No to your question. Dooley is not the standard to measure by. Rather it was right or wrong...avg or slightly better at times wasn't good enough at FL, UGA, or LSU. I also can't see Sumlin surviving another yr if he wins 7-8 games.
 
#115
#115
Smokey X said:
not referring to record comparisons at all. Simply referring to the fact that Swinney was also on the hot seat after the 2010 season as evidenced by the linked article and there were plenty more like that one. I just remember similar hoopla from back then as I hear right now about BJ. Clemson turned it around and so can UTK.

Clemson Football Coach Dabo Swinney: From Hot Seat to Hot Coach | Bleacher Report
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Yes. I remember a "warmer" seat after his dip in '10. Notably, Clemson fans didn't want clichés or talks about patience. They expected him to win and to do it RIGHT NOW.

IF you want to make that comparison... then Jones should be on a hot seat with you. Dabo got his act together... and that right quick.
 
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#116
#116
Vol fans don't understand that this isn't Fulmer's Vandy. They are taking academic exceptions far more than ever before and have since JF showed up. Mason is playing with JFs last freshman class which was almost completely redshirted. A few are in prison or are awaiting trial but the others can play. They'll probably have a first rounder this yr, maybe before any Vol is drafted.

They beat UGA also this yr and uf just a few yrs ago.
 
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#118
#118
BeardedVol said:
I don't think that Debord's leaving bodes well. If he thought he was going to have evenn close to the success in 2017 with one of the new QBs, as he did with Dobbs in 2016, there's no reason to take a lateral move to Indiana, as we could have parlayed 2017 success into a substantial raise at UT. I think he got out while his numbers looked as good as they ever would under CBJ's offense.

As far as Shoop goes, the jury is still out. Even healthy, we struggled a lot, against a lot of teams. I hope the changes at DL, and DB are the keys to getting his system working at UT, but there's just too much unknown there to say for sure right now.
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I thought that Debord went to be closer to his family ?

Shoops Defense was beat up badly this last year,hopefully they will do better this year
 
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