Excellent article on the Full Court Press

#26
#26
Like I said before, I wouldn't mind being mid-90s Kentucky, at all,if we have the horses to run it. You have to go with what your personel dictates. I actually prefer the higher possession rate in the tournament as opposed to the half court slugfest. Kentucky in the mid-90s used to start their tournament in the second weekend because they would simply blitz teams the first two rounds. Upsets in the first rounds are generally generated by low possession affairs and half court games.
 
#27
#27
Uni,
Lets get down to brass tacks.

If we get Selby the 17th and there are no big injuries (Negedu part deux) do you see any reason we do NOT have the horses next year?

You are right about UK in the tournaments. It is awesome for me to dream about stud 5 stars busting their tails for 28 minutes and getting to rest the rest of the game because they are up 15-20.
 
#28
#28
Bruce primarily used the press b/c of the athleticism of his personnel in his first three years. We'll press more next year, but we'll also play out of more half court sets than 2007-08. Saying we'll press all the time or slow it down to 62-54 games every game is oversimplifying his coaching prowess just to prove YOUR point was right....

Bruce adapted his style this year and won, which a lot of you said he and his team were incapable of doing. If you're looking for the wrong/right, black/white in this argument, that is as close as you're going to get...
 
#29
#29
MikeHamiltonFan said:
Uni,
Lets get down to brass tacks.

If we get Selby the 17th and there are no big injuries (Negedu part deux) do you see any reason we do NOT have the horses next year?

You are right about UK in the tournaments. It is awesome for me to dream about stud 5 stars busting their tails for 28 minutes and getting to rest the rest of the game because they are up 15-20.
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Maybe. It depends on how deep we can go and if certain guys are up to the task. Harris actually might be as important a key as Hopson because I think that Chism was not well suited for the press and the 4 is usually the point man guarding the inbounder (Think Antoine Walker). I think Golden will be very good in the press and McRae as well.

Obviously, Hall would be a better guy in the press than Williams, but both would be safety valves. Otherwise, looking at the roster, yes, it's possible we will be a good pressing team next year, depending on the abilities of the freshman.
 
#30
#30
Unimane said:
Like I said before, I wouldn't mind being mid-90s Kentucky, at all,if we have the horses to run it. You have to go with what your personel dictates. I actually prefer the higher possession rate in the tournament as opposed to the half court slugfest. Kentucky in the mid-90s used to start their tournament in the second weekend because they would simply blitz teams the first two rounds. Upsets in the first rounds are generally generated by low possession affairs and half court games.
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Generally agree. If you have the offensive prowess those UK teams did, you want as many possessions as humanly possible. Tgat KY team pushed and if that didn't work, they half heartedly pressed to get your guards moving. The guarded the bucket well, so the free buckets weren't a big issue.
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#31
#31
BigPapaVol said:
Generally agree. If you have the offensive prowess those UK teams did, you want as many possessions as humanly possible. Tgat KY team pushed and if that didn't work, they half heartedly pressed to get your guards moving. The guarded the bucket well, so the free buckets weren't a big issue.
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They also had four elite defenders at the guard positions. Turner, Anderson, Delk, and Mercer were almost always going to be better defensively than the guys they were guarding could perform offensively. Even with that, Pitino pressed less with the '96 bunch than any team he had at Kentucky. After the Pride of Puerto Rico spent the entire opener feeding Camby, Dingle, and Bright for layups and dunks, Pitino realized there was no reason to press people you could strangle in the halfcourt. Watch the opener, then watch the national semifinal those two played later in the year. You tell me which strategy worked for Kentucky.
 
#32
#32
BigPapaVol said:
Generally agree. If you have the offensive prowess those UK teams did, you want as many possessions as humanly possible. Tgat KY team pushed and if that didn't work, they half heartedly pressed to get your guards moving. The guarded the bucket well, so the free buckets weren't a big issue.
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Agreed. I think the "controlled chaos" thing is a bit overplayed in terms of how Pearl uses it because it's not "40 minutes of hell". It's selectively run when done right, dropping off after the first pass, sometimes the second, token pressure at times or trapping at others. It's most effective when keeping the opposing offense off balance and when we can generate easy baskets (something we had trouble with at times this year, despite playing solid half court defense).
 
#33
#33
Bonus questions.

Should Calipari have pressed WVU?

Was it sad that he could not get Bledsoe and Wall to use their absurd speed to generate turnovers in a press?

I think the answers are yes and yes.

I think if someone says that the answer to 2 is no because those guys had one foot out the door to the NBA and could not be bothered to D up with maximum effort, those are the same concerns I would have about Selby, Harris and Hopson next year and we will see if Bruce can overcome that.
 
#34
#34
MikeHamiltonFan said:
Bonus questions.

Should Calipari have pressed WVU?

Was it sad that he could not get Bledsoe and Wall to use their absurd speed to generate turnovers in a press?

I think the answers are yes and yes.

I think if someone says that the answer to 2 is no because those guys had one foot out the door to the NBA and could not be bothered to D up with maximum effort, those are the same concerns I would have about Selby, Harris and Hopson next year and we will see if Bruce can overcome that.
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Defense was not the problem in that game. Jacking a crazy amount of threes and not going inside at will, was stupid.
 
#35
#35
Unimane said:
Agreed. I think the "controlled chaos" thing is a bit overplayed in terms of how Pearl uses it because it's not "40 minutes of hell". It's selectively run when done right, dropping off after the first pass, sometimes the second, token pressure at times or trapping at others. It's most effective when keeping the opposing offense off balance and when we can generate easy baskets (something we had trouble with at times this year, despite playing solid half court defense).
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I don't mind Louisville's 2-2-1. It allows them to control tempo, and it forces the opposing team to expend some energy getting it up the floor.

I don't like our press nearly as much. If we are trapping the first pass, and they get past the trap, it normally results in uncontested dunks.

Having a press in our repertoire is fine; pressing for 40 minutes using that 1-2-1-1 would be moronic.
 
#36
#36
junebug said:
Pearl said that he would return to the press next yesr.
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We should all welcome back mediocrity and first round exits then. "Tennessee Basketball" will never lead us to a title. Pearl showed this year he is a good enough coach to coach us in the half court and we are plenty talented. The full court press as a full time defense needs to go away for good.
 
#37
#37
Urinal Mint said:
We should all welcome back mediocrity and first round exits then. "Tennessee Basketball" will never lead us to a title. Pearl showed this year he is a good enough coach to coach us in the half court and we are plenty talented. The full court press as a full time defense needs to go away for good.
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I wouldn't put too much stock into him saying that. He said that at the beginning of this year too, and he quit doing it pretty early on.
 
#38
#38
MikeHamiltonFan said:
How underdogs can win : The New Yorker

If you are saying that Pearl cannot get extremely talented guys to put forth the effort needed to press effectively, perhaps you are correct. I think he has not demanded it from guys like Hopson because he did not have the depth to run it. He also did get great effort from these guys in playing halfcourt defense, running, rebounding etc.

I think Pearl has not had the depth in quite a while to try pressing for most of a game.

I think in the next two years he will have the backcourt depth to look as strong in the press as the 96 KY team.

If kids start getting the taste for steals and dunks, they will be motivated to put forth the effort to make the other teams miserable.

Looking at our schedule, there are maybe 3 or 4 teams next year that would not be overwhelmed by our press.

I am very happy that Pearl has proven he can coach halfcourt defense. I also think in a given matchup Pearl may need to back off the press if it is ineffective. I am excited he is returning to it next year if we have the personnel and depth to do it.

By the way, the article is long so if you have difficulty reading (you think this has been a novel for instance) you may want to skip it.
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Dude, did you really just use this year-old Gladwell article as the basis for a new thread?

This article was discussed on this board at great length.....a year ago. Volnation has a search feature last time I checked.
 
#40
#40
Here is another reason the OP didn't need to start this thread:

http://www.volnation.com/forum/tenn...-gladwell-smarter-than-you-7.html#post2389605

At the conclusion of the above thread, BPV, Hat, and myself met at a predetermined location and settled our Denny Crum debate with a fight-club-style battle royale. I'd be happy to elaborate on the outcome of said battle royale, but unfortunately the first rule of fight club clearly prohibits such disclosure.
 
#41
#41
I think Pearl meant that he was going to press sporadically next year. I would be shocked if in the tourney next year we pressed.
 
#42
#42
MikeHamiltonFan said:
Do we agree that you have to be able to defend successfully in the halfcourt? That is where we start and I think we all agree. You will also see that is not a new revelation to me, it is something I said I saw as a weakness thus far in Pearls career before the season started. One of the ways I agreed with BPV and hat.

BPV and I both thought Pearl could successfully coach it but just had not, hat said he could not.

Once you can successfully defend the halfcourt, I think Bruce is wise to realize that if you are Goliath size talent and you can press also, you look like the best of the Arkansas teams, or the best of the UK Pitino teams, you beat people by 30 points and your starters stay fresh in tournaments because even though they are running like mad when they are out there, they only need to play 25-28 minutes. They also do not cry about less minutes when they are averaging 22 points with lots of dunks off steals.

Calipari had Goliath talent, and they would still be playing if he had the ability to press the horrid WV backcourt.
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I agree with the view that the press is a valuable tool but that we shouldn't be using it for 40 mins. We don't have the talent of those Arky and UK teams. Bruce's press with his first two teams here helped mask deficiencies. Now that Bruce's halfcourt D is actually working, the press isn't necessary.
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#43
#43
MikeHamiltonFan said:
Bonus questions.

Should Calipari have pressed WVU?

Was it sad that he could not get Bledsoe and Wall to use their absurd speed to generate turnovers in a press?

I think the answers are yes and yes.

I think if someone says that the answer to 2 is no because those guys had one foot out the door to the NBA and could not be bothered to D up with maximum effort, those are the same concerns I would have about Selby, Harris and Hopson next year and we will see if Bruce can overcome that.
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Actually, I am inclined to say NO to the first and MAYBE to the second. We haven't pressed worth a damn all season when we have tried it, and against a tall lengthy team like WVU it would have resulted in even more layups. 55% from the FT line and -3% from three decided that game. If Kentucky shoots their average in both categories we win that game handily.

Also, guarding a certain someone with the last name Butler.

As for the second question, perhaps its logical to think that with athletes like Bledsoe, Wall, Miller, Liggins, that you could execute a good press. Could it have been done? Yeah, I think so. But an effective press is something you have to teach from Day 1, and work on rigorously, not just here and there when you need it. As bad as this team was defensively at the beginning of the year, I just don't think a press would have been effective.

Also, I agree with Hats post above that talked about not needing to press when you could smother people in the halfcourt. I have watched the WVU game over and over, and believe me we didn't lose this game defensively. There were a few key breakdowns (especially in the second half when Huggins exploited our overplay defense for backdoor layups, and Cal subsequently did nothing.)

We sucked with the ball in our hands, other than brief spurts from Wall.


As for the press, I like it. I think you should press the teams that you CAN press and lay off the others. I know that sounds cliche, but its the truth. HOWEVER, if your not going to commit to the press and do it often, then your not going to execute it and will ultimately lose points because of it against good teams.
 
#44
#44
kidbourbon said:
Here is another reason the OP didn't need to start this thread:

http://www.volnation.com/forum/tenn...-gladwell-smarter-than-you-7.html#post2389605

At the conclusion of the above thread, BPV, Hat, and myself met at a predetermined location and settled our Denny Crum debate with a fight-club-style battle royale. I'd be happy to elaborate on the outcome of said battle royale, but unfortunately the first rule of fight club clearly prohibits such disclosure.
Click to expand...

*crumb
 
#45
#45
Hardwood_fanatic said:
Actually, I am inclined to say NO to the first and MAYBE to the second. We haven't pressed worth a damn all season when we have tried it, and against a tall lengthy team like WVU it would have resulted in even more layups. 55% from the FT line and -3% from three decided that game. If Kentucky shoots their average in both categories we win that game handily.

Also, guarding a certain someone with the last name Butler.

As for the second question, perhaps its logical to think that with athletes like Bledsoe, Wall, Miller, Liggins, that you could execute a good press. Could it have been done? Yeah, I think so. But an effective press is something you have to teach from Day 1, and work on rigorously, not just here and there when you need it. As bad as this team was defensively at the beginning of the year, I just don't think a press would have been effective.

Also, I agree with Hats post above that talked about not needing to press when you could smother people in the halfcourt. I have watched the WVU game over and over, and believe me we didn't lose this game defensively. There were a few key breakdowns (especially in the second half when Huggins exploited our overplay defense for backdoor layups, and Cal subsequently did nothing.)

We sucked with the ball in our hands, other than brief spurts from Wall.


As for the press, I like it. I think you should press the teams that you CAN press and lay off the others. I know that sounds cliche, but its the truth. HOWEVER, if your not going to commit to the press and do it often, then your not going to execute it and will ultimately lose points because of it against good teams.
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MHF doesn't like facts. Only predictions.
 
#46
#46
braths said:
MHF doesn't like facts. Only predictions.
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Fact, you go to a big ten school that sucks at basketball

Opinion, if you are going to show up and try to bash me over and over for pointing out your conference sucks, you may want to work on your hyperbole.
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#47
#47
MikeHamiltonFan said:
Fact, you go to a big ten school that sucks at basketball

Opinion, if you are going to show up and try to bash me over and over for pointing out your conference sucks, you may want to work on your hyperbole.
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Fact: Said Big Ten school has far more bball history than UT does and is on its way back.

Fact #2: Remind me again who had more teams in the Sweet Sixteen between the Big Ten and SEC. Also, how many Big Ten teams were in the Final Four vs. the SEC?

EDIT: I am a fan of both conferences. The Big 10 is NOT my conference. I bleed IU red and UT orange.
 
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#48
#48
MikeHamiltonFan said:
Fact, you go to a big ten school that sucks at basketball

Opinion, if you are going to show up and try to bash me over and over for pointing out your conference sucks, you may want to work on your hyperbole.
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Fact: You shouldn't brag about basketball to a school with four national titles and one of the three greatest coaches in its history.
 
#49
#49
MikeHamiltonFan said:
Fact, you go to a big ten school that sucks at basketball

Opinion, if you are going to show up and try to bash me over and over for pointing out your conference sucks, you may want to work on your hyperbole.
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Are you serious?
 
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