Even More Obamacare Follies

[utvolpj]

Seems like you just don't even want to admit that having our private health insurance effectively cover everyone else would inevitably collapse under the weight of those costs.

Opinion based on what? It had never been tried without extensive and costly govt regulation

 

[lawgator1]

Opinion based on what? It had never been tried without extensive and costly govt regulation

Many, many studies have proven that the government runs Medicare and Medicaid far more efficiently than the private sector runs health insurance.

More of the dollar spent in those government programs goes to actual care than a counterpart dollar in health insurance premium.

 

[utvolpj]

Many, many studies have proven that the government runs Medicare and Medicaid far more efficiently than the private sector runs health insurance.

More of the dollar spent in those government programs goes to actual care than a counterpart dollar in health insurance premium.

If they're studies based on the current model them they are useless and not what I addressed. The model needed had not been tried

 

[YorkVol]

Many, many studies have proven that the government runs Medicare and Medicaid far more efficiently than the private sector runs health insurance.

More of the dollar spent in those government programs goes to actual care than a counterpart dollar in health insurance premium.

Must have been government studies...if you actually had experienced Medicare yourself you would know that it is not very efficiently run.

On the other hand, private insurers weren't much better. They simply didn't have to be. When you are the only or one of two providers in a state, where is the incentive to be efficient?

 

[volinbham]

Prior to the ACA, a considerable amount of your health insurance premium was going to subsidize the care of people who paid NOTHING into the system. And such care was delivered in the most inefficient way imaginable, at the hospital. You don't see on your premium bill a line for "indigent care offset," but its there. And its big. Its why aspirin at the hospital is $5 a pill.

Romney understood this. The Republican party embraced expanding coverage, using subsidies and mandates ... until Obama did it nationally. Then the GOP conveniently forgot about all of the reasons and the logic of doing this.

Seems like you just don't even want to admit that having our private health insurance effectively cover everyone else would inevitably collapse under the weight of those costs.

As PJ points out this hasn't changed.

We have shifted costs to Medicaid and as has been posted many times in here ER costs are expected to rise as Medicaid recipients are heavier users of the ER than are the uninsured.

As to can the private market handle it - I would suggest the Swiss system proves it can.

Further, the Swiss people overwhelmingly rejected a move from private insurance to a state run model.

 

[utvolpj]

I simply don't understand where someone receiving subsidies comes up with the cash required. We are on schedule to spend almost $2k in the next 30 days on things that could not be prevented thru the included models for well visits. It is all still being subsidized one way or the other. The bottom line doesn't change

 

[Velo Vol]

How so? The ACA set required coverages

The vast majority of today's insurance expenditures were already being paid pre-ACA. My question is the cost of the new requirements (e.g., dropping lifetime limits).

 

[Velo Vol]

Many, many studies have proven that the government runs Medicare and Medicaid far more efficiently than the private sector runs health insurance.

More of the dollar spent in those government programs goes to actual care than a counterpart dollar in health insurance premium.

The bottom line is that private health insurance is a financing mechanism that adds ~20% to the cost of care.

Why people seemingly are emotionally attached to it is a mystery to me.

 

[hog88]

Hard to take ACA criticism seriously when you have people simultaneously arguing that the law is:

(1) a giant taxpayer giveaway to the insurance companies, and

(2) intended to drive the insurance companies out of business.

Make up your minds.

From the Obama administrations POV it is designed to fail forcing us into a single payer system. He screwed the insurance companies with the all of the delays and exemptions, thus the 3 billion $s recently paid out by the treasury. It's too early for the insurance companies to pull out.

 

[volinbham]

The bottom line is that private health insurance is a financing mechanism that adds ~20% to the cost of care.

Why people seemingly are emotionally attached to it is a mystery to me.

Again I have to advocate the Swiss system and the amount of choice they have.

The problem with single payer is that the way it controls costs is to limit choice of what coverage you want, what you pay, what services will be covered and to what extent, etc.

Yes any given private plan controls these but in a the right system you can pick and choose what fits.

It's nuts to think a single payer system is going to provide the fit for a nation of 320 million people.

So I'd say it's more than an emotional attachment.

 

[volinbham]

The vast majority of today's insurance expenditures were already being paid pre-ACA. My question is the cost of the new requirements (e.g., dropping lifetime limits).

I haven't seen this analysis but agree it's an important metric.

In addition I'd add the costs of payer bands. Clearly insurance for the young and healthy has gone up due to both the new mandates of what must be covered and the payer bands to shift the true price of insurance away from the heavy users.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

The govt set required coverages so they are in essence setting the rates

No no no, you just don't get it. See, in the liberal world, the insurance companies are just supposed to eat all the additional costs because that is the right thing to do and they can afford to give a little bit more. After all, they didn't build that.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

Again I have to advocate the Swiss system and the amount of choice they have.

The problem with single payer is that the way it controls costs is to limit choice of what coverage you want, what you pay, what services will be covered and to what extent, etc.

Yes any given private plan controls these but in a the right system you can pick and choose what fits.

It's nuts to think a single payer system is going to provide the fit for a nation of 320 million people.

So I'd say it's more than an emotional attachment.

Switzerland is unbelievably expensive. A freaking local beer is $16. You can't get dinner out in the town (Zurich) for less than $30.

 

[volinbham]

Switzerland is unbelievably expensive. A freaking local beer is $16. You can't get dinner out in the town (Zurich) for less than $30.

alrighty then. It appears health insurance runs about 10% of annual salary. Not sure how that compares with the good ole US and A.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

alrighty then. It appears health insurance runs about 10% of annual salary. Not sure how that compares with the good ole US and A.

It was just a comment, not a condemnation of what you were saying.

 

[theFallGuy]

Many, many studies have proven that the government runs Medicare and Medicaid far more efficiently than the private sector runs health insurance.

More of the dollar spent in those government programs goes to actual care than a counterpart dollar in health insurance premium.

Good ole gubment efficiency

Feds charge 107 people in $452 million Medicare fraud crackdown - CBS News

 

[theFallGuy]

how about allowing a dentist to peform 991 procedures in a day

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/18/nyregion/18medicaid.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

 

[theFallGuy]

In fact, Medicare and Medicaid fraud is so lucrative organized crime is cashing in

Organized crime's new target: Medicare - CNN.com

 

[theFallGuy]

But don't worry, we'll just be adding millions of illegal immigrants to those payrolls too. What could possibly go wrong

 

[volinbham]

In fact, Medicare and Medicaid fraud is so lucrative organized crime is cashing in

Organized crime's new target: Medicare - CNN.com

So instead of breaking legs for realz they'll just have a doctor claim it was broken and cash in?

 

[lawgator1]

Good ole gubment efficiency

Feds charge 107 people in $452 million Medicare fraud crackdown - CBS News

You either realize you are not addressing the comment I made, or you don't care.

Medicare Is More Efficient Than Private Insurance – Health Affairs Blog

.

• According to CMS, for common benefits, Medicare spending rose by an average of 4.3 percent each year between 1997 and 2009, while private insurance premiums grew at a rate of 6.5 percent per year. (See Table 13)
• According to a calculation by the National Academy for Social Insurance, if spending on Medicare rose at the same rate as private insurance premiums during that period, Medicare would have cost an additional $114 billion (or 31.7 percent).
• The CBO explicitly stated that its data on relative cost growth should not be used to make the argument that Goodman and Saving make, writing that the relatively low growth rate of all health care expenditures other than Medicare and Medicaid “should not be interpreted as meaning that Medicare or Medicaid is less able to control spending than private insurers.” Goodman and Saving mistakenly suggest that the growth rate of private insurance is the same as the growth rate of all health care expenditures other than Medicare and Medicaid; however, as CBO points out, the growth rate of all health care expenditures other than Medicare and Medicaid includes not just spending by private insurers, but also government programs and out-of-pocket costs paid by the uninsured.
• The CBO has predicted that the rising cost of private insurance will continue to outstrip Medicare for the next 30 years. The private insurance equivalent of Medicare would cost almost 40 percent more in 2022 for a typical 65-year old.

Medicare Has Lower Administrative Costs Than Private Plans.
.

• According to the Kaiser Family Foundation, administrative costs in Medicare are only about 2 percent of operating expenditures. Defenders of the insurance industry estimate administrative costs as 17 percent of revenue.
• Insurance industry-funded studies exclude private plans’ marketing costs and profits from their calculation of administrative costs. Even so, Medicare’s overhead is dramatically lower.
• Medicare administrative cost figures include the collection of Medicare taxes, fraud and abuse controls, and building costs.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

National Academy of Social Insurance? Seriously? There really is such an organization? Good lord, it's like professional beach volleyball, people in this country will spend money on the most idiotic things.

 

[McDad]

You either realize you are not addressing the comment I made, or you don't ...

You didn't answer a direct question from me. What's the difference?

 

[lawgator1]

National Academy of Social Insurance? Seriously? There really is such an organization? Good lord, it's like professional beach volleyball, people in this country will spend money on the most idiotic things.

They are nonpartisan industry execs. Very respected. You as usual don't know what you are talking about.

 

[volinbham]

You either realize you are not addressing the comment I made, or you don't care.

Medicare Is More Efficient Than Private Insurance – Health Affairs Blog

.

• According to CMS, for common benefits, Medicare spending rose by an average of 4.3 percent each year between 1997 and 2009, while private insurance premiums grew at a rate of 6.5 percent per year. (See Table 13)
• According to a calculation by the National Academy for Social Insurance, if spending on Medicare rose at the same rate as private insurance premiums during that period, Medicare would have cost an additional $114 billion (or 31.7 percent).
• The CBO explicitly stated that its data on relative cost growth should not be used to make the argument that Goodman and Saving make, writing that the relatively low growth rate of all health care expenditures other than Medicare and Medicaid “should not be interpreted as meaning that Medicare or Medicaid is less able to control spending than private insurers.” Goodman and Saving mistakenly suggest that the growth rate of private insurance is the same as the growth rate of all health care expenditures other than Medicare and Medicaid; however, as CBO points out, the growth rate of all health care expenditures other than Medicare and Medicaid includes not just spending by private insurers, but also government programs and out-of-pocket costs paid by the uninsured.
• The CBO has predicted that the rising cost of private insurance will continue to outstrip Medicare for the next 30 years. The private insurance equivalent of Medicare would cost almost 40 percent more in 2022 for a typical 65-year old.

Medicare Has Lower Administrative Costs Than Private Plans.
.

• According to the Kaiser Family Foundation, administrative costs in Medicare are only about 2 percent of operating expenditures. Defenders of the insurance industry estimate administrative costs as 17 percent of revenue.
• Insurance industry-funded studies exclude private plans’ marketing costs and profits from their calculation of administrative costs. Even so, Medicare’s overhead is dramatically lower.
• Medicare administrative cost figures include the collection of Medicare taxes, fraud and abuse controls, and building costs.

There's a reason Medicare Advantage and other Medicare supplemental insurance programs are attractive.