Even More Obamacare Follies

#3,203
#3,203
Vol8188 said:
My mistake. I meant to put that it should not be a business. You shouldn't make a profit for treating cancer, just like you shouldn't profit from investigating a homocide or putting out a fire.
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That's un-American!

The folks saying that without incentive there will be no innovation are right. I don't want to make healthcare unprofitable. I just want to make it affordable.

It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't mess. Without mandatory coverage, we have to subsidize healthcare for the uninsured at the point of sale. With mandatory coverage, we have to subsidize coverage for the lower-income families in our premiums.

I would choose the latter. It seems more fair to me. But I can't completely discount the opinions of others in this thread that disagree.

And the reason I would choose this is because Gramps already pointed out the reason my other alternative will never come to fruition. The uproar if people were denied care altogether would be impossible to ignore.
 
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#3,204
#3,204
govols/cc said:
Health care isn't overly inflated just because of non payer care. It's like everything else.
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I know better than to expect direct, informed responses from you at this point, so I won't ask you to be any more specific or what your original point was going to be.
 
#3,205
#3,205
Thrasher865 said:
That's un-American!

The folks saying that without incentive there will be no innovation are right. I don't want to make healthcare unprofitable. I just want to make it affordable.

It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't mess. Without mandatory coverage, we have to subsidize healthcare for the uninsured at the point of sale. With mandatory coverage, we have to subsidize coverage for the lower-income families in our premiums.

I would choose the latter. It seems more fair to me. But I can't completely discount the opinions of others in this thread that disagree.
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I agree that the current system created by the ACA isn't bad. But I still think a government ran universal health care system would be better for everyone.

Pharmaceutical companies and other businesses would still make profits. But hospitals would be ran by the government and doctors would be government employees.

One cost that would immediately be cut is the liability insurance that doctors complain about having to pay so much for.
 
#3,206
#3,206
Vol8188 said:
I agree that the current system created by the ACA isn't bad. But I still think a government ran universal health care system would be better for everyone.

Pharmaceutical companies and other businesses would still make profits. But hospitals would be ran by the government and doctors would be government employees.

One cost that would immediately be cut is the liability insurance that doctors complain about having to pay so much for.
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Like LG, you have never experienced the VA medical system.

What do you say to doctors, who graduate hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt, that they are now forced to work for $50 grand/year as a GS10?
 
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#3,208
#3,208
Vol8188 said:
I agree that the current system created by the ACA isn't bad. But I still think a government ran universal health care system would be better for everyone.

Pharmaceutical companies and other businesses would still make profits. But hospitals would be ran by the government and doctors would be government employees.

One cost that would immediately be cut is the liability insurance that doctors complain about having to pay so much for.
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Oh boy, can't wait to have surgery done by an incompetent government employee and have no recourse for damages.
 
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#3,209
#3,209
MG1968 said:
You apparently haven't been paying attention to what's going on in the VA medical system.
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You apparently haven't been paying attention to the post you are criticizing. The VA hospitals are government institutions with government employees. I'm not suggesting that.

We already have single payor for Medicare and that is working well. Even with various reports from time to time of fraud (private insurers get that, too) its still much more efficient and less expensive to manage than is the private health insurance industry.
 
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#3,210
#3,210
MG1968 said:
Like LG, you have never experienced the VA medical system.

What do you say to doctors, who graduate hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt, that they are now forced to work for $50 grand/year as a GS10?
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Actually.....I have. And I had great experiences.

Who says they should only start out at 50k?
 
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#3,211
#3,211
lawgator1 said:
You apparently haven't been paying attention to the post you are criticizing. The VA hospitals are government institutions with government employees. I'm not suggesting that.

We already have single payor for Medicare and that is working well. Even with various reports from time to time of fraud (private insurers get that, too) its still much more efficient and less expensive to manage than is the private health insurance industry.
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Then how do you institute a single payer system without nationalizing hospitals and the doctors working in them?

What do you do with the student loan debt doctors and nurses carry with them for decades?
 
#3,212
#3,212
lawgator1 said:
You apparently haven't been paying attention to the post you are criticizing. The VA hospitals are government institutions with government employees. I'm not suggesting that.

We already have single payor for Medicare and that is working well. Even with various reports from time to time of fraud (private insurers get that, too) its still much more efficient and less expensive to manage than is the private health insurance industry.
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Medicare is working well until it goes bankrupt. Solid system you're championing
 
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#3,216
#3,216
Vermont’s Giving Up On Single-Payer Health Care Over Ballooning Costs | The Daily Caller

The problem is, of course, how to pay for it. Even while plans were moving forward for a 2017 launch of the single-payer system, to be called Green Mountain Care, Shumlin had held off on releasing a plan for how to pay for the system, waiting until his announcement Wednesday.

Tax hikes required to pay for the system would include a 11.5 percent payroll tax as well as an additional income tax ranging all the way up to 9.5 percent. Shumlin admitted that in the current climate, such a precipitous hike would be disastrous for Vermont’s economy.
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#3,217
#3,217
Thrasher865 said:
That's almost word for word what I said in my previous post.
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Actually it was pointing out the ridiculousness of your post that we have to choose one or the other. Get rid of this ACA calamity and do something that truly changes the system.
 
#3,223
#3,223
Vol8188 said:
Which is impressive to be only 60%. Since the inception of the ACA the rate at which has care costs were increasing has been decreased.
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I don't know if that's true, but it could be misleading. I know that my rates jumped way up the year or two before ACA due to industry fears of what would happen. So the first year of ACA we didn't have a rate increase at all. It was more a correction back to the norm than a "decrease."
 
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