Drew Lock vs. Real Teams

[DEFENDTHISHOUSE]

This thread is gold. It should be stickied.

Fools gold.

 

[Jax_Vol]

Yeah, and before the game I wasn't running any smack about Missouri or their QB either.

The continual dismissal of other teams and the talent on those teams while Tennessee still wanders in the wilderness is staggering.

People made similar comments about Will Grier to start the season.

Tennessee is not good enough to take any game from granted and won't be next season either. And neither is Florida. Florida is going to be heavily favored against Florida State this week and I'm nervous as hell.

That is why we are Vols...

and you guys are spending your time on VolNation.

 

[D-rock]

Only in regard to foot speed. TB threw the best deep ball I've ever seen at UT. He was a gunslinger. JG has a fine arm but not that level, he can make all the throws, but it's very cautious.

Once he stares down his receivers if he doesn’t get blasted like Apollo in Rocky 4

 

[sjt18]

I look forward to your assessment of Chryst's performance against Missouri.

About what you would probably expect. I said before the season that I hoped JG being the starter was an indication that he had improved the mental part of the game. I said that after watching a significant number of KC's Stanford games. He is more advanced than JG in decision making, reads, and pretty much everything mental. He showed that when he burned MU when they tried to blitz him on his first drive. He showed that when he anticipated the receiver on the quick slant in the red zone. Those are examples of what I mean with my criticisms of JG.

JG throws to open receivers and has the arm strength to make it work most of the time. He does not throw receivers open. He doesn't read and anticipate. KC does... he is just prone to making bad reads and mistakes. He did it Saturday. He did it at Stanford. It also appears at times that he sees the right thing but doesn't have the arm to make the throw. That may have been what happened on his first pick if it wasn't a matter of him expecting the WR to break it off... which is still a mistake by him considering there was no help over the top.

So to answer your request... KC is still the guy who lost his job to Costello in significant measure because of critical mistakes like we saw Saturday. But some of the good things he did highlight JG's weaknesses. Just for giggles... go back and see how many times KC was hit after JG was brutalized. Same OL. Ostensibly the same play calls. Same D. The primary thing that changed was that KC knows how to pre-read a D and react to what they're doing far better than JG.

IF.... IF... JG masters those things he will be one of the best QB's UT has ever produced. But being as far behind on those things as he is 3 years into his college career is not encouraging.

 

[sjt18]

JG is a better qb. He will be an NFL prospect next year.

LOL... Looks like you called that one.

 

[k-town_king]

LOL... Looks like you called that one.

I stand by my statement. JG has been better vs good teams in his career. Too bad he got hurt. It's not telling how.many yards he would have had vs that terrible defense.

About what you would probably expect. I said before the season that I hoped JG being the starter was an indication that he had improved the mental part of the game. I said that after watching a significant number of KC's Stanford games. He is more advanced than JG in decision making, reads, and pretty much everything mental. He showed that when he burned MU when they tried to blitz him on his first drive. He showed that when he anticipated the receiver on the quick slant in the red zone. Those are examples of what I mean with my criticisms of JG.

JG throws to open receivers and has the arm strength to make it work most of the time. He does not throw receivers open. He doesn't read and anticipate. KC does... he is just prone to making bad reads and mistakes. He did it Saturday. He did it at Stanford. It also appears at times that he sees the right thing but doesn't have the arm to make the throw. That may have been what happened on his first pick if it wasn't a matter of him expecting the WR to break it off... which is still a mistake by him considering there was no help over the top.

So to answer your request... KC is still the guy who lost his job to Costello in significant measure because of critical mistakes like we saw Saturday. But some of the good things he did highlight JG's weaknesses. Just for giggles... go back and see how many times KC was hit after JG was brutalized. Same OL. Ostensibly the same play calls. Same D. The primary thing that changed was that KC knows how to pre-read a D and react to what they're doing far better than JG.

IF.... IF... JG masters those things he will be one of the best QB's UT has ever produced. But being as far behind on those things as he is 3 years into his college career is not encouraging.

The only funny thing is your weird need to make up things regarding certain qb's mental abilities like Dobbs and JG. You said the same things regarding Dobbs vs Dormady.

No matter the actual results or what the people who coach and watch the team for a living say you insist in making up things regarding JG's mental capabilities. Weird.

How is the guy who is worse in every stat that shows mental ability and decision making better at those things?

Accuracy? Turnovers? Qb rating?

You said "He does not throw receivers open. He doesn't read and anticipate. KC does... he is just prone to making bad reads and mistakes. "
If KC is prone to making bad reads and mistakes then he isn't good at reading and anticipating. You know who doesn't make the bad read or bug mistake? JG. The better qb at making reads and and other area.

KC also took several hits and got sacked. So are those his fault? Also the hits on JG were clearly the right protection with missed blocks. Anyone that isn't an idiot saw that.

Just like anyone who isn't an idiot or just agenda posting wouldn't think a career 54% passer with a low rating and no career 300 yard games and only two 200 yard games in 28 appearances is good at reading defenses, throwing wrs open, and decision making.

So less than 37% passing with 2 ints vs the worst SEC pass defense shows you a qb is better mentally than a qb completing 65% with 2 ints on the year playing better teams?

You really must be just trolling at this point

 

[sjt18]

I stand by my statement. JG has been better vs good teams in his career. Too bad he got hurt. It's not telling how.many yards he would have had vs that terrible defense.

Right. In 3 drives that "terrible" D had held the O led by him to negative yardage... and there were no signs it was getting better. They were prepared to capitalize on JG's weaknesses. They had to adjust to take advantage of KC's.... but did.

The only funny thing is your weird need to make up things regarding certain qb's mental abilities like Dobbs and JG. You said the same things regarding Dobbs vs Dormady.

I don't remember comparing Dobbs to Dormady. Dobbs was the unquestioned starter by the time Domady arrived.

No matter the actual results or what the people who coach and watch the team for a living say you insist in making up things regarding JG's mental capabilities. Weird.

No. the "weird" thing is that you cannot comprehend the difference between a statement on talent/ability and on skill. I really have no idea what JG's "mental capabilities" are. His skills in decision making, reads, and anticipation are lacking and behind where a 3rd year player should be. Could be ability. Could be lack of effort in the film room. Could be a lack of coaching. But the fact is that his lack of progress in that are is what has kept him from becoming a much better QB.

There is just no denying that what KC did on that MU blitz is something JG has NOT shown the ability to do. If he did it... he wouldn't get hit so often and you could stop blaming the OL for everything... but of course we know you wouldn't.

How is the guy who is worse in every stat that shows mental ability and decision making better at those things?

Accuracy? Turnovers? Qb rating?

Pretty well explained that. If you cannot understand it then you'll have to ask a more specific question.

You said "He does not throw receivers open. He doesn't read and anticipate. KC does... he is just prone to making bad reads and mistakes. "
If KC is prone to making bad reads and mistakes then he isn't good at reading and anticipating. You know who doesn't make the bad read or bug mistake? JG. The better qb at making reads and and other area.

Are you really this irrational? A mistake is an exception to a behavior. KC can do it but is inconsistent. Yes. JG makes bad reads and more often than not the last two staffs have protected him from making any read at all. There's a reason he's getting hit so much while KC didn't. There's a reason they allow KC to throw slants but not JG. NONE OF IT IS PHYSICAL ABILITY.

KC also took several hits and got sacked. So are those his fault? Also the hits on JG were clearly the right protection with missed blocks. Anyone that isn't an idiot saw that.

Just keep living in delusion. Every QB will get hit on occasion. If you can't see the difference... see your own post.

Just like anyone who isn't an idiot or just agenda posting wouldn't think a career 54% passer with a low rating and no career 300 yard games and only two 200 yard games in 28 appearances is good at reading defenses, throwing wrs open, and decision making.

I've been critical and fair with both guys. You are incapable of doing that.

So less than 37% passing with 2 ints vs the worst SEC pass defense shows you a qb is better mentally than a qb completing 65% with 2 ints on the year playing better teams?

You really must be just trolling at this point

Pretty interesting that you would even try that since JG was 0-2 with two sacks for -18 when he went out... and frankly was clueless about how to react. That worst SEC pass D had no trouble gameplanning to stop the things that JG is capable of doing and then hammering him.

If I'm a troll... I'm the champion troll having brought clear and reasoned arguments to this board for over 10 years. I'm not always right... but I make reasonable arguments that account for the facts as I know them. You have never done that. Not close.

 

[k-town_king]

Right. In 3 drives that "terrible" D had held the O led by him to negative yardage... and there were no signs it was getting better. They were prepared to capitalize on JG's weaknesses. They had to adjust to take advantage of KC's.... but did.

I don't remember comparing Dobbs to Dormady. Dobbs was the unquestioned starter by the time Domady arrived.

No. the "weird" thing is that you cannot comprehend the difference between a statement on talent/ability and on skill. I really have no idea what JG's "mental capabilities" are. His skills in decision making, reads, and anticipation are lacking and behind where a 3rd year player should be. Could be ability. Could be lack of effort in the film room. Could be a lack of coaching. But the fact is that his lack of progress in that are is what has kept him from becoming a much better QB.

There is just no denying that what KC did on that MU blitz is something JG has NOT shown the ability to do. If he did it... he wouldn't get hit so often and you could stop blaming the OL for everything... but of course we know you wouldn't.

Pretty well explained that. If you cannot understand it then you'll have to ask a more specific question.

Are you really this irrational? A mistake is an exception to a behavior. KC can do it but is inconsistent. Yes. JG makes bad reads and more often than not the last two staffs have protected him from making any read at all. There's a reason he's getting hit so much while KC didn't. There's a reason they allow KC to throw slants but not JG. NONE OF IT IS PHYSICAL ABILITY.

Just keep living in delusion. Every QB will get hit on occasion. If you can't see the difference... see your own post.

I've been critical and fair with both guys. You are incapable of doing that.


Pretty interesting that you would even try that since JG was 0-2 with two sacks for -18 when he went out... and frankly was clueless about how to react. That worst SEC pass D had no trouble gameplanning to stop the things that JG is capable of doing and then hammering him.

If I'm a troll... I'm the champion troll having brought clear and reasoned arguments to this board for over 10 years. I'm not always right... but I make reasonable arguments that account for the facts as I know them. You have never done that. Not close.

Jg got hit due to a missed block on his first drop back and got concussed. Therefore nothing he did in the Mizzou game is fair to criticize.

You continually claimed Dormady has a superior ability to "throw a receiver open, anticipated better, threw with touch better, threw into tighter windows" and much much more on his he was better mentally and we would improve when he became starter.

What about 65% and on pace for fewest ints with one of the highest ypa and qb ratings in school history says a first year full time starter sophomore is not where he should be?

JG is taking two sacks a game. Ainge broke down the false narrative that he is responsible for the hits this year.

If KC has a tendency to make bad reads and mistakes then he doesn't make good reads. Part of making good reads is knowing what your arm strength limitations allow you to complete. His chucking up quick floaters is not quick decision making.

Keep agenda trolling sjt

 

[TheGrove68]

To be honest Tenn doesn't have a good QB on the Roster JG in the games I saw is pretty average at best and KC is way to uneven to be effective.

It's like Tenn fan are debating if Always Save Cola is Better than Great Value Cola... JG isn't NFL material at all that is laughable.

 

[Lloyd_Christmas]

About what you would probably expect. I said before the season that I hoped JG being the starter was an indication that he had improved the mental part of the game. I said that after watching a significant number of KC's Stanford games. He is more advanced than JG in decision making, reads, and pretty much everything mental. He showed that when he burned MU when they tried to blitz him on his first drive. He showed that when he anticipated the receiver on the quick slant in the red zone. Those are examples of what I mean with my criticisms of JG.

JG throws to open receivers and has the arm strength to make it work most of the time. He does not throw receivers open. He doesn't read and anticipate. KC does... he is just prone to making bad reads and mistakes. He did it Saturday. He did it at Stanford. It also appears at times that he sees the right thing but doesn't have the arm to make the throw. That may have been what happened on his first pick if it wasn't a matter of him expecting the WR to break it off... which is still a mistake by him considering there was no help over the top.

So to answer your request... KC is still the guy who lost his job to Costello in significant measure because of critical mistakes like we saw Saturday. But some of the good things he did highlight JG's weaknesses. Just for giggles... go back and see how many times KC was hit after JG was brutalized. Same OL. Ostensibly the same play calls. Same D. The primary thing that changed was that KC knows how to pre-read a D and react to what they're doing far better than JG.

IF.... IF... JG masters those things he will be one of the best QB's UT has ever produced. But being as far behind on those things as he is 3 years into his college career is not encouraging.

Ok...so plenty of excuses and praise for KC despite a poor performance. If that was JG...you would've ripped him for costly turnovers and credited most of his yards to throwing up two prayers to Callaway. Everything is crystal clear now.

 

[GameTime]

Against us he looked like Dan Marino....

 

[sjt18]

Ok...so plenty of excuses and praise for KC despite a poor performance. If that was JG...you would've ripped him for costly turnovers and credited most of his yards to throwing up two prayers to Callaway. Everything is crystal clear now.

Plenty of praise? He performed better than JG for a couple of drives until MU adjusted... that's hardly "plenty of praise".

When JG does things well, I praise him. I WANT him to be a great QB. KC isn't consistent either. But some of the "good" plays he makes illustrate exactly what holds JG back. The one deep pass to Callaway was poorly thrown. Even KC was shaking his head. But A LOT of JG's deeper throws have been "50/50" balls that were underthrown. That dog won't hunt because neither (for different reasons) should get unqualified praise.

The first one if you are talking about the hot read on the blitz wasn't a "prayer". It is what a QB should do when he reads blitz and has that route available. They're taught to throw it out front so it is either a completion or incomplete. The only thing possibly "crystal clear" is your own bias and frankly a lack of understanding of what you're seeing.

Go find a play where JG read blitz and threw one over the top like KC did... then come back and prove me wrong. That was a very good play and one that would help JG not get hit if he'd start throwing it.

 

[BeardedVol]

Plenty of praise? He performed better than JG for a couple of drives until MU adjusted... that's hardly "plenty of praise".

When JG does things well, I praise him. I WANT him to be a great QB. KC isn't consistent either. But some of the "good" plays he makes illustrate exactly what holds JG back. The one deep pass to Callaway was poorly thrown. Even KC was shaking his head. But A LOT of JG's deeper throws have been "50/50" balls that were underthrown. That dog won't hunt because neither (for different reasons) should get unqualified praise.

The first one if you are talking about the hot read on the blitz wasn't a "prayer". It is what a QB should do when he reads blitz and has that route available. They're taught to throw it out front so it is either a completion or incomplete. The only thing possibly "crystal clear" is your own bias and frankly a lack of understanding of what you're seeing.

Go find a play where JG read blitz and threw one over the top like KC did... then come back and prove me wrong. That was a very good play and one that would help JG not get hit if he'd start throwing it.

I'm sure the entire team could handle JG having a lower completion rate if it meant him not having -82 rushing yards on the season from all of the sacks he has taken.

 

[tumscalcium]

Yes

Depends on what you mean by prospect. Will he be looked at and evaluated? Yes. Will he play? No.

 

[k-town_king]

Depends on what you mean by prospect. Will he be looked at and evaluated? Yes. Will he play? No.

Just like you said Dobbs was a running back playing qb, not an SEC qb, won't get drafted, then when drafted will get cut, right? Or just like how Dormady will be good and better than Dobbs or JG passing? And Dormady will start over JG and KC will also start over JG too right?
Sorry if I won't listen to the guy who has been wrong every single time due to his agenda driven evaluation.
Maybe you should liayen to guy that keeps being right.

JG has way more NFL potential then Dobbs who was a 4th round pick and could be a starter one day.

 

[KBVol]

About what you would probably expect. I said before the season that I hoped JG being the starter was an indication that he had improved the mental part of the game. I said that after watching a significant number of KC's Stanford games. He is more advanced than JG in decision making, reads, and pretty much everything mental. He showed that when he burned MU when they tried to blitz him on his first drive. He showed that when he anticipated the receiver on the quick slant in the red zone. Those are examples of what I mean with my criticisms of JG.

JG throws to open receivers and has the arm strength to make it work most of the time. He does not throw receivers open. He doesn't read and anticipate. KC does... he is just prone to making bad reads and mistakes. He did it Saturday. He did it at Stanford. It also appears at times that he sees the right thing but doesn't have the arm to make the throw. That may have been what happened on his first pick if it wasn't a matter of him expecting the WR to break it off... which is still a mistake by him considering there was no help over the top.

So to answer your request... KC is still the guy who lost his job to Costello in significant measure because of critical mistakes like we saw Saturday. But some of the good things he did highlight JG's weaknesses. Just for giggles... go back and see how many times KC was hit after JG was brutalized. Same OL. Ostensibly the same play calls. Same D. The primary thing that changed was that KC knows how to pre-read a D and react to what they're doing far better than JG.

IF.... IF... JG masters those things he will be one of the best QB's UT has ever produced. But being as far behind on those things as he is 3 years into his college career is not encouraging.

Regarding how many times JG was hit/“brutalized” vs how many times Chryst was vs Mizzou. Go back and see how many times JG was willing to stand in the pocket (while his OL and RBs continually whiff on attempted blocks) while Chryst immediately escaped the pocket on wasted downs while throwing the ball away into the 3rd row of the stands on his way to completing 37% of his passes. Also, I saw Chryst get blasted from his blind side at least twice last Saturday. Guess he just holds the ball too long while not being able to make his pre-snap reads, despite being a senior.

 

[tumscalcium]

Just like you said Dobbs was a running back playing qb, not an SEC qb, won't get drafted, then when drafted will get cut, right? Or just like how Dormady will be good and better than Dobbs or JG passing? And Dormady will start over JG and KC will also start over JG too right?
Sorry if I won't listen to the guy who has been wrong every single time due to his agenda driven evaluation.
Maybe you should liayen to guy that keeps being right.

JG has way more NFL potential then Dobbs who was a 4th round pick and could be a starter one day.

D4H, you didn’t log out of your K-town account. You’re welcome.


I did not say Dobbs wasn’t an SEC QB......

I don’t remember all of that but most does sound right. Dormady did start over JG... and I never said KC WILL start over JG.

It doesn’t matter what you believe. Only time will tell. JG will need to improve significantly in order to actually play in the NFL.

 

[k-town_king]

D4H, you didn’t log out of your K-town account. You’re welcome.


I did not say Dobbs wasn’t an SEC QB......

I don’t remember all of that but most does sound right. Dormady did start over JG... and I never said KC WILL start over JG.

It doesn’t matter what you believe. Only time will tell. JG will need to improve significantly in order to actually play in the NFL.

Great has no intelligent argument response.

You continually claimed Dobbs was not a SEC qb. Then when he has a good year you switched to him not being drafted. Then when drafted he would be a practicesquad player if not cut.

He already is a better college passer than several NFL qbs. If he stays healthy no doubt he goes in the top three rounds.

What is your obsession with d4h? Several of y'all have a weird need or urge to bring him up all the time. I'm pretty sure he doesnt even like JG. But we know your "reasons" for bringing him up

 

[BeardedVol]

I'm pretty sure he doesnt even like JG. But we know your "reasons" for bringing him up

Racism?

 

[Firebirdparts]

Now I know stats are what you make them, but I wanted to do my part to dispel the Drew Lock hype. .

It didn't really work.

 

[k-town_king]

Racism?

There is only one thing that we have in common and it's not sports opinions. Nothing sports related I post would make him think that would be an alt.

So . . .

 

[DaUndergroundMan]

It didn't really work.

Nope, all it did was convince me that the Vols aren't a real team.

 

[Lloyd_Christmas]

Plenty of praise? He performed better than JG for a couple of drives until MU adjusted... that's hardly "plenty of praise".

When JG does things well, I praise him. I WANT him to be a great QB. KC isn't consistent either. But some of the "good" plays he makes illustrate exactly what holds JG back. The one deep pass to Callaway was poorly thrown. Even KC was shaking his head. But A LOT of JG's deeper throws have been "50/50" balls that were underthrown. That dog won't hunt because neither (for different reasons) should get unqualified praise.

The first one if you are talking about the hot read on the blitz wasn't a "prayer". It is what a QB should do when he reads blitz and has that route available. They're taught to throw it out front so it is either a completion or incomplete. The only thing possibly "crystal clear" is your own bias and frankly a lack of understanding of what you're seeing.

Go find a play where JG read blitz and threw one over the top like KC did... then come back and prove me wrong. That was a very good play and one that would help JG not get hit if he'd start throwing it.

I don't think we understand just how lucky we are to have someone such as yourself with such vast playing and coaching experience willing to come on here and explain the things to us that we are missing. I mean...it is truly amazing to have you share with us the knowledge you have of JG's struggles because your wealth of experience has given you such insight that you know exactly what JG is coached to do, the exact protections that are called, the play that is called, the defensive call of the opponent...it's just amazing. I bet Pruitt could even skip a colonoscopy and just call you up for the results. My God man. How do you live day to day just knowing how much smarter you are than all the people who get paid to coach these players?

(Now watch you prove that you're Peyton Manning and all of the above ironically is true...LOL.)

 

[sjt18]

I don't think we understand just how lucky we are to have someone such as yourself with such vast playing and coaching experience willing to come on here and explain the things to us that we are missing. I mean...it is truly amazing to have you share with us the knowledge you have of JG's struggles because your wealth of experience has given you such insight that you know exactly what JG is coached to do, the exact protections that are called, the play that is called, the defensive call of the opponent...it's just amazing. I bet Pruitt could even skip a colonoscopy and just call you up for the results. My God man. How do you live day to day just knowing how much smarter you are than all the people who get paid to coach these players?

(Now watch you prove that you're Peyton Manning and all of the above ironically is true...LOL.)

Classic. You claim he's doing nothing wrong assuming you know everything... then get in a snit when someone talks in terms of what they think is happening or may be happening... because it doesn't play to your tune.

I don't claim to "know"... just to see. I saw a guy without JG's talent read a blitz and throw a hot route for a big game. I've watched all season as JG failed to do that, held the ball, and got flattened. If you have another explanation... then join the adult conversation any time.

 

[sjt18]

Regarding how many times JG was hit/“brutalized” vs how many times Chryst was vs Mizzou. Go back and see how many times JG was willing to stand in the pocket (while his OL and RBs continually whiff on attempted blocks) while Chryst immediately escaped the pocket on wasted downs while throwing the ball away into the 3rd row of the stands on his way to completing 37% of his passes. Also, I saw Chryst get blasted from his blind side at least twice last Saturday. Guess he just holds the ball too long while not being able to make his pre-snap reads, despite being a senior.

He didn't get hit as much as JG has been getting hit. He doesn't have the physical throwing talent that JG has. He is NOT perfect in making pre-snap reads but is light years ahead of where JG is. KC is not the starter at Stanford probably because of the kinds of mistakes he made Saturday. That was what it looked like in the games I watched before the season.

You are too good to fall into the ridiculousness of these other guys. Saying that JG has some pretty fatal weaknesses at this time is NOT the same as saying that KC is a good answer. He isn't. The best solution would have been for JG to learn to throw some balls away, leave the pocket and make a play or avoid a hit, and basically learn how to play the position better. So far, he hasn't done that. Instead, he's led a largely ineffective offense that couldn't move the ball vs Charlotte and had negative yardage vs Mizzou. You can blame that on everyone else but his decision making and weakness reading D's is a real problem that should be obvious to someone who knows football as well as you do.