Does Rick Barnes need to do a better job recruiting

[bleedingTNorange]

Reality is that Bo Ryan recruited a ton of 3*. But when you dig a little deeper he signed 18 guys in 12 years that were 5*(3), 4*(8).

You mean almost like....primarily recruited 3*?????

 

[BigZiti09]

Still not sure why you are mentioning 3*, it’s like arguing with SD, OP never once mentioned anything about ranked 3* being an exception. If you can’t underdtand that and stop including them to try and strengthen your stance there is no point in continuing to discuss this with you.

I mentioned the ranked 3*. I introduced them for context and to show how the teams being discussed relate to UT in regards to recruiting.

So yeah, even though these teams aren't filled with 4 and 5 star players, they still recruit more 4 and 5 star players than us. And then if you add ranked 3* in to the mix the disparity continues to grow.

 

[BigZiti09]

In summation..... Rick Barnes can, should, will and knows he needs to do a better job in recruiting.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

On a similar note I thought I would go back and pull 2016/2017 target lists, current season stats...

2016:
4* #44 Braxton Blackwell 10.3ppg 5.6rpg Alabama
4* #63 De'Riante Jenkins 12.8ppg 3.8rpg VCU
3* #149 Jordan Bone
3* #156 Jordan Bruner 8.4ppg 5.6rpg Yale
3* #161 John Fulkerson
3* #224 Grant Williams
3* NR Bruno Fernando 10.3ppg 6.5rpg Maryland
3* NR Josh Okogie 18.2ppg 6.3rg Georgia Tech

2017:
#19 Nick Richards 5.8ppg 5.0rpg Kentucky
#22 MJ Walker 7.9ppg 1.6rpg Florida State
#44 Jermaine Samuels 1.4ppg 1.4rpg Villanova
#65 Rayshaun Hammonds 6.6ppg 5.0rpg Georgia
#83 Abu Kigab 1.8ppg 1.2rpg Oregon
#87 Victor Uyaelumno 1.2ppg 0.7rpg Southern Cal
#88 Alex Reese 4.1ppg 2.9rpg Alabama
#90 Raiquan Gray...redshirt Florida State
#92 Tyler Polley 2.8ppg 1.1rpg UCONN
#133 Lavar Batts 3.9ppg 1.6apg North Carolina State
#162 Ibrahim Doumbia...redshirt South Carolina
#141 Nicholas Claxton...3.8ppg 3.6rpg Georgia
#147 Zach Kent
#158 Lance Thomas...redshirt Louisville
#187 Isaiah Stokes...redshirt Florida
#220 Victor Enoh 1.5ppg 1.5rpg Memphis
NR Brandon Huffman 1.8ppg 1.6rg North Carolina
NR Chase Johnson 4.3ppg 2.0rog Florida




So I look at this list and think about people saying how Barnes “lucked” into Grant Williams...there are some damn good evaluations on the above lists. You look at a guy like Josh Okogie who’s getting NBA Draft projections and was an unranked 3* Barnes was VERY close to landing, just something worth mentioning imo.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

I mentioned the ranked 3*. I introduced them for context and to show how the teams being discussed relate to UT in regards to recruiting.

So yeah, even though these teams aren't filled with 4 and 5 star players, they still recruit more 4 and 5 star players than us. And then if you add ranked 3* in to the mix the disparity continues to grow.

I’m sorry but I don’t see much different between a guy ranked 141 and 151, please continue though telling me about this disparity.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

In summation..... Rick Barnes can, should, will and knows he needs to do a better job in recruiting.

Never said anything to the contrary...have even agreed, just stated, which you proved, that you can recruit primarily 3* and be consistently successful.

 

[BigZiti09]

Never said anything to the contrary...have even agreed, just stated, which you proved, that you can recruit primarily 3* and be consistently successful.

I think your definition of "primarily" and what CNC was going for are two different things.

Also, the only one close to meeting the criteria of the 6 schools you listed was Wisconsin.

I mean there's only 100+ four and five star players a year. That means with rosters of 13 guys and theres 350 teams that almost every team has more 3* than 4*/5* players.

And even still.....Wisconsin is outrecruiting what UT has done in the Barnes era.

 

[BigZiti09]

I’m sorry but I don’t see much different between a guy ranked 141 and 151, please continue though telling me about this disparity.

Rivals is what I've always used to that's the number that I've always based my perspective on and that's what the data lends itself to.

I don't know what everyone on our roster was rated outside of Johnson and Turner. I have an idea on Pons but not exact. The rest of our roster was 150+. We don't know how many guys on Wisconsin were ranked 151. They could have had more guys ranked 151-175 than us too.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

I think your definition of "primarily" and what CNC was going for are two different things.

Also, the only one close to meeting the criteria of the 6 schools you listed was Wisconsin.

I mean there's only 100+ four and five star players a year. That means with rosters of 13 guys and theres 350 teams that almost every team has more 3* than 4*/5* players.

And even still.....Wisconsin is outrecruiting what UT has done in the Barnes era.

And even still, they’re primarily recruiting 3*, look up the definition if you need to.

As for 351 teams, you can’t say that and then tell me not to use MM...the statement was consistently successful P5 teams...

Top 6 consecutive NCAAT steaks..

Kansas-28
North Carolina-27
Arizona-25
Duke-22
Michigan State-20
**Gonzaga-19**
Wisconsin-19


**according to you Gonzaga doesn’t count because they’re not P5

So of the Top 5 most consistently successful teams...how many 4&5 stars do you think each school has? I’m guessing a hell of a lot more than Wisconsin, meaning Wisconsin is probably the only one of those 5 who primarily recruited 3 stars.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Rivals is what I've always used to that's the number that I've always based my perspective on and that's what the data lends itself to.

I don't know what everyone on our roster was rated outside of Johnson and Turner. I have an idea on Pons but not exact. The rest of our roster was 150+. We don't know how many guys on Wisconsin were ranked 151. They could have had more guys ranked 151-175 than us too.

There’s historical data that says guys 130-150 are better than those 151-170?

Or maybe they didn’t, you don’t know?

 

[BigZiti09]

So I look at this list and think about people saying how Barnes “lucked” into Grant Williams...there are some damn good evaluations on the above lists. You look at a guy like Josh Okogie who’s getting NBA Draft projections and was an unranked 3* Barnes was VERY close to landing, just something worth mentioning imo.

I don't know that I'd say he lucked into him. I mean he targeted the guy and went out and got him. Not sure how far down our list he was.

I would say that finding and unranked 3* that becomes SEC player of the year as a sophomore is extremely rare and isn't something I expect to happen regularly if ever again for Rick Barnes.

 

[cncchris33]

And even still, they’re primarily recruiting 3*, look up the definition if you need to.

As for 351 teams, you can’t say that and then tell me not to use MM...the statement was consistently successful P5 teams...

Top 6 consecutive NCAAT steaks..

Kansas-28
North Carolina-27
Arizona-25
Duke-22
Michigan State-20
**Gonzaga-19**
Wisconsin-19


**according to you Gonzaga doesn’t count because they’re not P5

So of the Top 5 most consistently successful teams...how many 4&5 stars do you think each school has? I’m guessing a hell of a lot more than Wisconsin, meaning Wisconsin is probably the only one of those 5 who primarily recruited 3 stars.

Like Ziti said though, your current argument is hyper-focused on the loose definition of "primarily". You are taking a rigid definition of that word and applying it to this discussion.

My intent with the use of that word was to illustrate Tennessee's current roster makeup. One 4* and 12 3*s. I don't believe, and history suggests that you cannot maintain our current pattern of success in a P5 conference with that kind of a roster. It doesn't mean we have to constantly have at least seven 4 or 5* players to hold a majority and counteract that trend, and that isn't how I was attempting to apply the word "primarily".

 

[FleeceItOut]

You guys get so caught up with *’s by a player’s name.

 

[BigZiti09]

And even still, they’re primarily recruiting 3*, look up the definition if you need to.

As for 351 teams, you can’t say that and then tell me not to use MM...the statement was consistently successful P5 teams...

Top 6 consecutive NCAAT steaks..

Kansas-28
North Carolina-27
Arizona-25
Duke-22
Michigan State-20
**Gonzaga-19**
Wisconsin-19


**according to you Gonzaga doesn’t count because they’re not P5

So of the Top 5 most consistently successful teams...how many 4&5 stars do you think each school has? I’m guessing a hell of a lot more than Wisconsin, meaning Wisconsin is probably the only one of those 5 who primarily recruited 3 stars.

You are wanting to argue about the definition of "primarily" and all I care about is how it all relates to Tennessee.

At the end of the day we are just listing a bunch of teams that have recruited better players than us and have had success while doing so.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

And even still, they’re primarily recruiting 3*, look up the definition if you need to.

As for 351 teams, you can’t say that and then tell me not to use MM...the statement was consistently successful P5 teams...

Top 6 consecutive NCAAT steaks..

Kansas-28
North Carolina-27
Arizona-25
Duke-22
Michigan State-20
**Gonzaga-19**
Wisconsin-19


**according to you Gonzaga doesn’t count because they’re not P5

So of the Top 5 most consistently successful teams...how many 4&5 stars do you think each school has? I’m guessing a hell of a lot more than Wisconsin, meaning Wisconsin is probably the only one of those 5 who primarily recruited 3 stars.

4/5 stars verse 3 stars last 10 years per rivals...

Kansas- 31 vs. 4
North Carolina 30 vs. 8
Arizona 33 vs. 11
Duke 36 vs. 6
Michigan State 20 vs. 10
Wisconsin 6 vs. 29


In case you were wondering, I would say those top 5 all “primarily” recruit 4&5 stars as evidenced by the numbers...Wisconsin meanwhile primarily recruiting 3 stars.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

I don't know that I'd say he lucked into him. I mean he targeted the guy and went out and got him. Not sure how far down our list he was.

I would say that finding and unranked 3* that becomes SEC player of the year as a sophomore is extremely rare and isn't something I expect to happen regularly if ever again for Rick Barnes.

Maybe not POY but looking at that list a guy like Josh Okogie is All-SEC most likely yet was lower ranked than Grant.

You look at Brandon Huffman who ended up at UNC, he probably is getting big minutes if he had come to Tennessee. Not saying solely target unranked guys at all, just saying that his staff seemingly had a great eye for talent, even if under the radar...and makes me optimistic about a guy like Kent.

 

[cncchris33]

You guys get so caught up with *’s by a player’s name.

Just to be clear, I make my own evaluations based on video, and then decide whether I think a kid is overrated/underrated. Perfect example is Ian Steere from this year's class. He is probably more appropriately ranked now, but originally, he was very underrated. One look at his tape told me he was a kid I wanted, stars be damned.

In basketball however, I find the star/ranking system to be relatively more correct than in football because there are so many opportunities to evaluate kids in real game action. It doesn't mean that players aren't overlooked, overrated/underrated, or just don't reach their potential at times, though.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

You are wanting to argue about the definition of "primarily" and all I care about is how it all relates to Tennessee.

At the end of the day we are just listing a bunch of teams that have recruited better players than us and have had success while doing so.

Point blank...you weren’t saying “let’s recruit like Wisconsin”, so yes while they’ve recruited better than Tennessee has they still didn’t recruit at the level which you’ve claimed Tennessee needs to. That is my point.

 

[cncchris33]

Maybe not POY but looking at that list a guy like Josh Okogie is All-SEC most likely yet was lower ranked than Grant.

You look at Brandon Huffman who ended up at UNC, he probably is getting big minutes if he had come to Tennessee. Not saying solely target unranked guys at all, just saying that his staff seemingly had a great eye for talent, even if under the radar...and makes me optimistic about a guy like Kent.

It does give me hope for Kent. I am hoping that the Luke Kornet comparisons are legit.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

4/5 stars verse 3 stars last 10 years per rivals...

Kansas- 31 vs. 4
North Carolina 30 vs. 8
Arizona 33 vs. 11
Duke 36 vs. 6
Michigan State 20 vs. 10
Wisconsin 6 vs. 29


In case you were wondering, I would say those top 5 all “primarily” recruit 4&5 stars as evidenced by the numbers...Wisconsin meanwhile primarily recruiting 3 stars.

And I think that’s a fair expectation and probably pretty accurate to what we will see...bringing in a 4* every year or ever other year and then multiple 3* guys who can play ball. That was the Wisconsin model that worked so well for them that under Bo Ryan they were one of the most consistently successful programs in the country. If Barnes had success similar to what Ryan had at Wisconsin I would think most Vol fans would sign up for that right now.

 

[patrick]

I been meaning to post something about this for a little while now. I would like to see Barnes recruit a bit better however there is no doubt that he is a very good developer of talent. The evidence of player growth and development on this Tennessee team is easy to see. I have been most impressed with the development of Alexander and Schofield!

I must admit that I believe I was wrong on Barnes - it is no secret that I blasted Barnes early and often. I thought he had one leg in retirement but it appears that I was wrong. It has been quite a season and I hope the Vols get a few wins in the SECT and a few more wins in the NCAAT. I will add that from what I saw on the GA post game, Barnes' players are very fond of him.

Go Vols!

 

[3Tennessee]

Hells Bells what else does the fans want? Ranked 13th in the con, finished 1st. That goes to show what a good coach can do!

 

[NeverWe'llSever]

Yes and the only reason anyone is saying no is because there’s only good vibes around the team. If we get eliminated from either tournament, everyone will be back on the same page. You have to have elite players to win it all.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Found this interesting...

Someone on Twitter (I didn’t fact check) looked up the star rankings for each player on All-SEC 1st & 2nd team....

Co-POY Grant Williams & Yante Maten were both ***

1st and 2nd team combined:
9- ***
5- ****
2- *****

 

[Biopsyman]

TN is not a tradional power in basbetball.. be happy by making the tournament and maybe winning a few games