Does Rick Barnes need to do a better job recruiting

[bleedingTNorange]

I mean, what did he say that's incorrect? Provide some examples of P5 programs that have built long-term success (6-7-8 years) recruiting primarily 3* talent. My guess is its a short list, if not a blank one.

I have argued with Ziti until we're blue in the face at times, and he can be a jerk when he posts without thinking or emotionally. But in this case, I think he has made a rational argument without being prickly and confrontational.

Off the top of my head...
Wisconsin
Butler
VCU
Oklahoma
Purdue
Wichita State

They may not all fit the exact criteria but I believe it’s close...

 

[BigZiti09]

Off the top of my head...
Wisconsin
Butler
VCU
Oklahoma
Purdue
Wichita State

They may not all fit the exact criteria but I believe it’s close...

Butler vcu Wichita State all play in non p5 leagues. Don’t see near the talent we face in SEC.

Purdue is recruiting a notch above us.

Wisconsin signed two top 100 guys last year.

Oklahoma recruits a notch above us as well.

 

[volfanhill]

Haven’t started paying attention. My hope is that we land two 4* players. At least one in the fall signing period.

How about we trust CRB and what he does until given a reason not to? I mean I am all for big time recruits but that’s been hit and miss for lots of teams.

 

[volfanhill]

Butler vcu Wichita State all play in non p5 leagues. Don’t see near the talent we face in SEC.

Purdue is recruiting a notch above us.

Wisconsin signed two top 100 guys last year.

Oklahoma recruits a notch above us as well.

All three of those programs are historically better then ours

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Butler vcu Wichita State all play in non p5 leagues. Don’t see near the talent we face in SEC.

Purdue is recruiting a notch above us.

Wisconsin signed two top 100 guys last year.

Oklahoma recruits a notch above us as well.

What’s Butler/VCU/WSU records against P5 teams?

A notch wasn’t the definition...they recruit primarily 3*, that’s what I was responding to.

I’m referring to Wisconsin under Bo Ryan, they aren’t very good right now.

 

[BigZiti09]

What’s Butler/VCU/WSU records against P5 teams?

A notch wasn’t the definition...they recruit primarily 3*, that’s what I was responding to.

I’m referring to Wisconsin under Bo Ryan, they aren’t very good right now.

There’s a reason you listed 3 mid majors. They don’t have to compete against the talent we do night in and night out. Like I said earlier they can win a ton of games and they may make a run. Not the way to sustain success in a P5 conference.

Hard for me to look at all of Bo Ryan’s classes on mobile but skimming quickly he was mostly 3* but had 4* and 5* as well.

Purdue is probably the best comparison for what Barnes is going for but they are recruiting better than us.

 

[cncchris33]

Off the top of my head...
Wisconsin
Butler
VCU
Oklahoma
Purdue
Wichita State

They may not all fit the exact criteria but I believe it’s close...

Only 3 of those schools fit the criteria. Since Barnes was hired, those schools have landed...

Oklahoma: one 5*, four 4*
Purdue: one 5*, two 4*
Wisconsin: three 4*

Tennessee: one 4*

***using 247 composite***

Wisconsin is perhaps the most similar, and they just finished their worst season in recent memory, and their recruiting has fallen off quite a bit from what Bo Ryan had going.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Off the top of my head...
Wisconsin
Butler
VCU
Oklahoma
Purdue
Wichita State

They may not all fit the exact criteria but I believe it’s close...

From 2012-2016(5 years), 13 scholarship players a year so with no attrition you’re saying at least 15-16 scholarship players in 5 year span...After looking through Purdue didn’t really fit, they’ve recruited higher than I previously thought.

Wisconsin: 3 higher than 3* guys
Butler: 0 higher than 3* guys
VCU: 3 higher than 3* guys
Oklahoma: 4 higher than 3* guys
Wichita State: 1 higher than 3* guy

 

[bleedingTNorange]

There’s a reason you listed 3 mid majors. They don’t have to compete against the talent we do night in and night out. Like I said earlier they can win a ton of games and they may make a run. Not the way to sustain success in a P5 conference.

Hard for me to look at all of Bo Ryan’s classes on mobile but skimming quickly he was mostly 3* but had 4* and 5* as well.

Purdue is probably the best comparison for what Barnes is going for but they are recruiting better than us.

So in your opinion Butler/Wichita State/VCU aren’t 20 win programs that frequent the NCAAT if they are in a P5?

Wisconsin and Oklahoma resemble Tennessee moreso than Purdue.

 

[BigZiti09]

So in your opinion Butler/Wichita State/VCU aren’t 20 win programs that frequent the NCAAT if they are in a P5?

Wisconsin and Oklahoma resemble Tennessee moreso than Purdue.

I think they’d recruit better if they came to a P5 conference.

If they didn’t I’m not a believing they’d win 20 yearly and frequent the tourney. VCU already recruits better than us so they have the advantage of having more talent than their opponents. Maybe that’s why everyone wins there. Idk.

I’ll look into Oklahoma and Wisconsin more tomorrow on desktop.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Virginia has 6 four stars in the last 6 years...so an average of 1 4 Star guy a year...so a roster built with 9 three stars and 4 four stars...and they’ve been about the best model of consistency there is.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

I think they’d recruit better if they came to a P5 conference.

If they didn’t I’m not a believing they’d win 20 yearly and frequent the tourney. VCU already recruits better than us so they have the advantage of having more talent than their opponents. Maybe that’s why everyone wins there. Idk.

I’ll look into Oklahoma and Wisconsin more tomorrow on desktop.

Using rivals last 5 years...

Oklahoma...4 4/5 stars, 15 3 stars or less
Wisconsin (Bo Ryan’s last 5 classes)...3 4/5 stars, 12 3 stars or less

 

[BigZiti09]

Virginia has 6 non-3* in the last 6 years...so an average of 1 4 Star guy a year...so a roster built with 9 three stars and 4 four stars...and they’ve been about the best model of consistency there is.

Here’s one class. 3 of these guys are big contributors.

Hall from another class was a 3* ranked 122.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

So Virginia, Wisconsin and Oklahoma basically assemble an average roster of 9/13 3 stars or less on their roster. Yes they have a couple of 4 stars, Tennessee has 1 with Pons...but those teams to me would definitely fall under the recruiting primarily 3*’s imo.

 

[BigZiti09]

Using rivals last 5 years...

Oklahoma...4 4/5 stars, 15 3 stars or less
Wisconsin (Bo Ryan’s last 5 classes)...3 4/5 stars, 12 3 stars or less

We’ve got one 4* on the roster and I’m not sold on his ranking. (Good or bad)

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Here’s one class. 3 of these guys are big contributors.

Hall from another class was a 3* ranked 122.

Not sure of your point? I acknowledged they’ve signed 6 guys in that span...4 all happened to be in that class, they weren’t good prior to 2016?

My response was to Chris saying recruiting primarily 3*...those 3 programs are the definition of recruiting primarily 3*.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

We’ve got one 4* on the roster and I’m not sold on his ranking. (Good or bad)

And 1 of Oklahoma’s 4 stars is an international guys who’s been a non-contributor, so should he not count towards their total??

 

[BigZiti09]

Not sure of your point? I acknowledged they’ve signed 6 guys in that span...4 all happened to be in that class, they weren’t good prior to 2016?

My response was to Chris saying recruiting primarily 3*...those 3 programs are the definition of recruiting primarily 3*.

BTO - their roster makeup is nothing like ours.

Yellow = 4*
Blue asterisk is a ranked 3*

Haven’t checked to see if any of the transfers were ranked guys.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

BTO - their roster makeup is nothing like ours.

Yellow = 4*
Blue asterisk is a ranked 3*

Haven’t checked to see if any of the transfers were ranked guys.

AGAIN....is this the first year they’ve been good?? Those 4 guys were 2016 class, go back and look at the rosters of the teams before that class...you know, when they won 29+ games 3 years in a row and made 1 E8 and 1S16

 

[BigZiti09]

AGAIN....is this the first year they’ve been good?? Those 4 guys were 2016 class, go back and look at the rosters of the teams before that class...you know, when they won 29+ games 3 years in a row and made 1 E8 and 1S16

You’re off your game Bleed.

 

[BigZiti09]

.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

You’re off your game Bleed.

Honestly hadn’t gone back to 2012...still isn’t majority of roster as 4* or better but admittedly is better than it appeared. Now shoot a hole in Oklahoma and Wisconsin (Bo Ryan).

And I maintain Brad Stevens and Butler would’ve had no issue winning in a P5 conference, I think his multiple runs through P5 teams in NCAAT kinda proves that.

 

[BigZiti09]

Honestly hadn’t gone back to 2012...still isn’t majority of roster as 4* or better but admittedly is better than it appeared. Now shoot a hole in Oklahoma and Wisconsin (Bo Ryan).

Don’t wanna speak for Chris but when he says primarily I don’t think he means teams with seven 3* and six 4*.

I mean we have 12/1 ratio. We aren’t even close to what Virginia has.

I’ll look at Oklahoma and Wiscy tomorrow. Both recruit better than we have in the Barnes era.

 

[BigZiti09]

Honestly hadn’t gone back to 2012...still isn’t majority of roster as 4* or better but admittedly is better than it appeared. Now shoot a hole in Oklahoma and Wisconsin (Bo Ryan).

And I maintain Brad Stevens and Butler would’ve had no issue winning in a P5 conference, I think his multiple runs through P5 teams in NCAAT kinda proves that.

Brad Stevens isn’t there anymore though. He was special. And that’s why he’s gone. So what Butler did with him was an anomaly.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Don’t wanna speak for Chris but when he says primarily I don’t think he means teams with seven 3* and six 4*.

I mean we have 12/1 ratio. We aren’t even close to what Virginia has.

I’ll look at Oklahoma and Wiscy tomorrow. Both recruit better than we have in the Barnes era.

Looking forward to it, Bo Ryan’s last 10 classes consisted of...

1 five star
3 four stars
29 three stars or less

And if you eliminate the first class in that span the numbers are, in his last 9 classes...
1 five star
1 four star
28 three stars or less