Dobbs is not the answer

#451
#451
KBVol said:
You said this......

Originally Posted by American Pig:
Dobbs passing stats are roughly equivalent to Worley except that Worley was throwing downfield, while Dobbs stats are padded with short screens and shovel passes that are little more than handoffs.


I refuted your statement that Worley threw the ball downfield vs Dobbs only throwing short screens and shovel passes with the statistic that proves otherwise, which is average yards per pass attempt. It essentially measures to what extent a QB is throwing the ball downfield as it computes the average yards gained across all thrown passes, both complete and incomplete. While Dobbs' average yards per pass attempt is at best middle of the road for most SEC QBs, it is actually higher than Worley's was (6.9 for Dobbs vs 6.3 for Worley), which proves your original statement comparing Dobbs to Worley false.

Now, I'm 100% certain that you'll deny this, spin this, call me dishonest, etc, just like you erroneously did before to not only me, but to anybody that provided overwhelming evidence (in the form of articles and even video) that Jones intended to redshirt Dobbs, but I thought could at least provide the information so all the other posters could once again see what a fraud you are with your ridiculously inaccurate and delusional posts. And like Sjt18 said....it's kinda fun.

By the way... please take a little time, go back to those qb threads which you referenced, and find and repost those vicious, lying, awful posts you said I authored about Peterman. Here's a hint.....you won't find em cause they don't exist. What you'll find are accurate statements about his play, when he was injured vs Florida (first drive of 2nd qtr) and more than one statement where I said he was a great kid, hard worker, great teammate and very resilient.... but just doesn't have the poise or emotional makeup to play in the SEC.
Click to expand...


KBVol, I'm always amused how comfortably you lie and manipulate rather than be honest when defeated on the facts.

(Fact) I agreed with a claim Manning and Tee threw the ball downfield effectively. All QB's throw downfield at some point - including Worley and Dobbs. You have no point.
(Fact) I never claimed Dobbs ONLY throws short screens. You are dishonestly putting words in my mouth.
(Fact) Nowhere have you provided any stats on completions over distance. Your failure to be honest about this fact is glaring. Stop manipulating. You have no stats demonstrating I am wrong. Your claim to the contrary is demonstrated false - AGAIN.
(fact) Nowhere have I made Worley a standard for comparison.
(fact) you were proven dead wrong to deny Peterman meltdown against Florida was played with a broken hand. You did in fact deny this.
(fact) Once caught misrepresenting the facts AGAIN about Peterman's Florida, you tried to deny Peterman's broken hand happened before the meltdown.
(fact) You were proven dead wrong on above claim and given newspaper accounts describing exactly when the problems began. You still refused to come clean.
(fact) You then began claiming Peterman's broken hand had no effect on his playing - an asinine and desperate claim to avoid admitting the plain truth.
(fact) You did attack Peterman's mental competence based on your superficial surface impressions gathered from minimal playing time. Your patronizing 'nice' words towards Peterman were ONLY after I nailed you to the wall for badmouthing a Vol player for such unwarranted reasons. Pretending otherwise is just more rank dishonesty on your part.
(fact) you have yet to provide demonstrate one example where I am 'erroneous' - just another empty claim with no teeth.

The truth is nowhere in you KBVol. You were in fact caught red-handed harshly demeaning Peterman for totally unwarranted reasons. You became extremely manipulative and dishonest in the face of a mountain of proof when proven wrong. Your pattern of crass manipulation and unwillingness to be honest is not respectable. Stop lying and manipulating, and I will gladly stop telling the truth about your lies and manipulation.
 
Last edited:
#453
#453
chatt-townVOL said:
The problem with this is that catching the ball isn't the only aspect of being a receiver. The ability to get open and create space is there too. We were missing 4 recievers that have been or always were starters at one point. I'm no expert but something tells me the back-ups to the back-ups aren't quite as good at getting open and making plays.
Click to expand...

Exactly.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#454
#454
papatomany said:
Actually, this isn't true. Look at Worley's numbers last year. It was the same dinking passing game (as his yards per completion show) and he lit it up for 55.6%. You have to deliver the throws accurately and on time.

And the thing about what type QB Jones wants is wrong as well. He has never ever had a vertical passing game. He's always used the "get the playmakers the ball 'in space'" mentality.

And, what in the world does Romo and Super Bowls have to do with anything. a) Plenty of lousy QBs have Super Bowl Rings; b) the Cowboys (of whom I am not a fan) are one game from the best record in the league; c) Romo's problem is that he folds under pressure and nothing else. The discussion was about throwing the ball upfield, and Romo's ypc is 8th in the league, ahead of Peyton, Stafford, Roethlisberger, Brady...

The only place I agree with you is that completion percentage isn't the end all stat. It is, however, a very important stat when people keep referring to alleged "accuracy problems".
Click to expand...
Dude, they are not "alleged".

I could get in trouble for re quoting this from 24/7 but what the hell:

"Everyone around the program knows Tennessee wouldn’t have won at Vanderbilt without the legs of sophomore quarterback Joshua Dobbs, which allowed him to gain yards on the ground and buy time for a couple of big passing plays against the Dores. And there’s no question that Dobbs was playing without some of the team’s best skill-position players around him. But the quarterback knows as well as anyone that he could have been intercepted a full handful of times in Nashville, and that his accuracy and decision-making in the passing game still leave plenty to be desired. It’s worth remembering that this staff has wanted to redshirt him the past two seasons." …

CBJ himself has stated many, many times that he has a problem with his accuracy. He has struggled with it since he arrived on campus. Its not a secret and it has been pretty evident in the games.

A pretty constant saying around here has been "if you can't see it then your blind or aren't watching" probably applies here.

Look, I could get with what your saying if it had been some vague quip or some random pundit making the claim about his accuracy, but its not. Its well documented, stated by his coach and demonstrated on the field.

If your so hard headed as to not give any of the credible information available, and seeing it with your own eyes some credence, then, well I don't know. Like I have stated before no QB is perfect, and it really is ok.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#455
#455
FLSTF-VOL said:
Dude, Its a fact that Dobbs stats are skewed because of the type of passes he has primarily completed. I'm not comparing him to anyone. I'm simply stating a fact. You can interpret the stats anyway you would like to prove your argument. You guys use his completion percentage rate as a counter to the real or perceived accuracy issue. I'm just trying to get across to you that using his completion percentage rate as a counter to the accuracy issue is not a good indicator. I could care less what Worley, Wallace or anyone else did, has done or will do.

And yes, the yards after catch make up a lot of his 25+ yard plays. Not all of them and no one is saying that he has never completed a vertical pass.

...
Click to expand...

I have not one time quoted completion percentages exclusively, but have tried to use all the stats we have available. (It's still inadequate, of course). However, for the stats to be "skewed" he'd have to be throwing way more dinks than his peers, otherwise we're not skewing from or toward anything; so the comparisons are important for the analysis. The reason to bring Worley in on the 25+ is that, running essentially the same passing scheme, Dobbs has more of those in 100 less passes.

Everything else is just perception. Some folks say he's inaccurate. From that I'm expecting to see Crompton before Kiffen got hold of him or Worley from last year, but that's not what I see. My perception is that Dobbs has made some remarkable intermediate throws as well as lots more very nice intermediate throws. His long throws have been off, but not by much. They tend toward a little short and too far inside. Easily fixable. In the Vandy game, he made some bad throws, mostly because not one receiver -- either because this depleted bunch just isn't very good, or because we don't have fantastic play calls that spring the receivers, both of those things are true -- could get open. He missed a few passes and we quit throwing anything past the line. This bunker mentality is all on the coaches. There are many many coaches who wouldn't panic over a couple of bad throws, especially with the evidence of all the good throws he's made. It's also the kind of thing that mangles a young QBs confidence. Bringing in Bo Wallace, etc, was just to show the difference in the hand dealt to the QB. "Accuracy problems", I keep hearing. Watch Blake Sims, for goodness sake. He makes some horrible throws. But he also makes great ones. By not panicking about the bad ones, they put up 55 points and put the the finishing touches on Ellis Johnson's tenure at Auburn. That's my perception.
 
#456
#456
chatt-townVOL said:
The problem with this is that catching the ball isn't the only aspect of being a receiver. The ability to get open and create space is there too. We were missing 4 recievers that have been or always were starters at one point. I'm no expert but something tells me the back-ups to the back-ups aren't quite as good at getting open and making plays.
Click to expand...
Look, if you miss an open receiver, you miss an open receiver. All the other stuff becomes non relevant if the guy throwing the ball can't get it there.

What your saying sounds good and it would even make sense or have merit, if we were talking about drops, receivers not being open etc. But we're not.
 
#457
#457
FLSTF-VOL said:
Look, if you miss an open receiver, you miss an open receiver. All the other stuff becomes non relevant if the guy throwing the ball can't get it there.

What your saying sounds good and it would even make sense or have merit, if we were talking about drops, receivers not being open etc. But we're not.
Click to expand...

Yes, we are. The receivers weren't open.
 
#459
#459
American Pig said:
KBVol, I'm always amused how comfortably you lie and manipulate rather than be honest when defeated on the facts.

(Fact) I agreed with a claim Manning and Tee threw the ball downfield effectively. All QB's throw downfield at some point - including Worley and Dobbs. You have no point.
(Fact) I never claimed Dobbs ONLY throws short screens. You are dishonestly putting words in my mouth.
(Fact) Nowhere have you provided any stats on completions over distance. Your failure to be honest about this fact is glaring. Stop manipulating. You have no stats demonstrating I am wrong. Your claim to the contrary is demonstrated false - AGAIN.
(fact) Nowhere have I made Worley a standard for comparison.
(fact) you were proven dead wrong to deny Peterman meltdown against Florida was played with a broken hand. You did in fact deny this.
(fact) Once caught misrepresenting the facts AGAIN about Peterman's Florida, you tried to deny Peterman's broken hand happened before the meltdown.
(fact) You were proven dead wrong on above claim and given newspaper accounts describing exactly when the problems began. You still refused to come clean.
(fact) You then began claiming Peterman's broken hand had no effect on his playing - an asinine and desperate claim to avoid admitting the plain truth.
(fact) You did attack Peterman's mental competence based on your superficial surface impressions gathered from minimal playing time. Your patronizing 'nice' words towards Peterman were ONLY after I nailed you to the wall for badmouthing a Vol player for such unwarranted reasons. Pretending otherwise is just more rank dishonesty on your part.
(fact) you have yet to provide demonstrate one example where I am 'erroneous' - just another empty claim with no teeth.

The truth is nowhere in you KBVol. You were in fact caught red-handed harshly demeaning Peterman for totally unwarranted reasons. You became extremely manipulative and dishonest in the face of a mountain of proof when proven wrong. Your pattern of crass manipulation and unwillingness to be honest is not respectable. Stop lying and manipulating, and I will gladly stop telling the truth about your lies and manipulation.
Click to expand...

Thanks for "doing what you do" once again for everybody to read..... mission accomplished.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#460
#460
LittleDTO said:
His throws have been horrible. He doesn't process the defense fast enough either.

Watch for 1 of the early enrolling freshman, to make a big push for PT next year.
Click to expand...

Give the kid time to get better. You can teach passing skills, but not speed.
 
#461
#461
this thread kind of embarrassing, TBH. no reason to think dobbs wont be good/great/sufficient with what hes already done. some analysts even have him on early heisman watch lists.

not really sure what you want from a guy who has only played 10 games at our university.
 
#463
#463
compare Dobbs this year behind the worst Oline in the NCAA to Dobbs last year behind a quality line....he was better this year and he'll continue to improve

Coaches are always looking for top notch QB prospects, but as it stands now he's our best option so everyone needs to stop the b!tching and come to terms with him as the starter next year.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#464
#464
FLSTF-VOL said:
How does it matter who is playing if they don't actually have a chance to catch the ball? It could be Jerry Rice and it wouldn't matter where Dobbs accuracy is concerned. If they can't get their hands on it they can't catch it.

Now accuse me of being anti-Dobbs or a Dobbs hater instead of acknowledging that I might have a point.
Click to expand...

Timing is much better when you have your starters. How many balls hit Pig dead in the hands that he dropped?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#465
#465
I will be perfectly happy with Joshua Dobbs as our starting qb next year. There is no logical reason to believe that the improvement we all witnessed in our offense after the 3rd series of the Alabama game will not continue. Yes there are areas to be addressed, but that is the same with every position. Are those that are saying Dobbs won't improve also saying Hurd doesn't improve? Every player must improve or get passed on the chart. Dobbs is a competitor and a winner.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#466
#466
KBVol said:
Thanks for "doing what you do" once again for everybody to read..... mission accomplished.
Click to expand...

Posturing and feigning pretenses is not a defense. You have no defense. I have been accurate and truthful, while you have not. You're all mouth and no teeth.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#467
#467
I don't see the issues that Dobbs has in is accuracy being easily resolved. He is almost halfway through his career here and our coaching staff still doesn't trust him to throw down field and from what he has shown they are right not to trust him. Yes our line is really bad and yes we have many playmakers that are injured, but on the occasions where he has time to throw and someone to throw to he has been inconsistent passing. There have been a few freshmen QBs step up and play well at UT so let's not completely discount the idea of a newcomer winning the job.
 
#468
#468
PrattvilleVol said:
Subjective opinions mean nothing are are usually dead wrong. You are ridiculously wrong

Martin 55.4 pct pass completion
Dobbs 60.6 pct pass completion
Click to expand...

You are so wrong and have such selective memory, it's astounding. We will never agree on this because you can't be objective.

Next
 
#469
#469
LittleDTO said:
You are so wrong and have such selective memory, it's astounding. We will never agree on this because you can't be objective.

Next
Click to expand...

So, actual measurements of performance, statistics, are subjective, while your "eyeball test" is objective?

Look, does Dobbs need to improve his accuracy? Absolutely. He knows it, the coaches know it, fans like me who support/advocate Dobbs being our QB know it. But as of now, no matter how you slice it, there are 2 things we know statistically about Joshua compared to a couple other UT QBs that have been brought up in this thread...

1.He's statistically a signicantly more accurate passer than Tee Martin was

2. Not only has he shown to be more accurate than Worley, in the same offense, with actually fewer of the better WRs on the roster to throw to, he's done so with a higher yards per attempt average per pass, meaning that he's actually thrown and completed more passes downfield.

Btw, I haven't even brought up a comparison of Dobbs' completion% as a true soph who was originally slated for a redshirt vs a certain all American at UT as a senior, who graduated in '97 and who was a Heisman trophy finalist. Lol.
 
#470
#470
KBVol said:
So, actual measurements of performance, statistics, are subjective, while your "eyeball test" is objective?

Look, does Dobbs need to improve his accuracy? Absolutely. He knows it, the coaches know it, fans like me who support/advocate Dobbs being our QB know it. But as of now, no matter how you slice it, there are 2 things we know statistically about Joshua compared to a couple other UT QBs that have been brought up in this thread...

1.He's statistically a signicantly more accurate passer than Tee Martin was

2. Not only has he shown to be more accurate than Worley, in the same offense, with actually fewer of the better WRs on the roster to throw to, he's done so with a higher yards per attempt average per pass, meaning that he's actually thrown and completed more passes downfield.

Btw, I haven't even brought up a comparison of Dobbs' completion% as a true soph who was originally slated for a redshirt vs a certain all American at UT as a senior, who graduated in '97 and who was a Heisman trophy finalist. Lol.
Click to expand...

First off. I could care less about Tee Martin.

Secondly, it's my eyeball test, the coaching staff, etc.

Third. With the measure of performance, it was against KY and South Carolina that he had good games. Also, we have gone over this several times but you like to ignore facts....he doesn't throw down field.

I guess the Old Dominions of the world, have better WR and offensive lines, cause we couldn't even match their offensive output against Vandy. There was a reason that we ran the ball on 3rd and 8 vs Vandy. Coaches have zero confidence in his passing ability.

So tell me......does coach Jones know what he is talking about or do you know more than all of them?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#471
#471
LittleDTO said:
First off. I could care less about Tee Martin.

Secondly, it's my eyeball test, the coaching staff, etc.

Third. With the measure of performance, it was against KY and South Carolina that he had good games. Also, we have gone over this several times but you like to ignore facts....he doesn't throw down field.

I guess the Old Dominions of the world, have better WR and offensive lines, cause we couldn't even match their offensive output against Vandy. There was a reason that we ran the ball on 3rd and 8 vs Vandy. Coaches have zero confidence in his passing ability.

So tell me......does coach Jones know what he is talking about or do you know more than all of them?
Click to expand...

You're gonna downplay Josh playing well vs the 6-6 2014 South Carolina team in an attempt to discredit him...... but weren't you the one who brought up Tee's completion record vs the 1998 version of South Carolina who finished 1-10? Nice.

Dobbs had a poor day throwing the ball last Saturday after throwing the ball very well in 3 of the last 4 games. Coukd it have been that he's still a work in progress and still needs to improve his mechanics to become a more accurate passer? Hell yes. Could it have been the multiple injuries to the WR corp -no North, no Smith, no Croom, no Malone... hell yes. Could a contributing factor have been the 16-20 mph swirling wind in the stadium? Hell yes. Could playing behind the worst OL in the country, which has given up 8 sacks and twenty-effing-four (24) tackles for loss the last 2 games have played a role in Dobbs' diminished accuracy? Yes.

When it became evident that the passing game wasn't working/effective late in the second half, the coaches wised up and made the decision they should have vs Florida....shut down the passing game, run the damn ball like Dobbs did and rely on your defense to win the game..... like they did.

And I, rather than pray that Dobbs be benched or have his scholarship pulled because he was struggling throwing the ball, was thankful that he the poise and ability to find other ways to win the ballgame.....which he did.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4 people
#472
#472
LittleDTO said:
First off. I could care less about Tee Martin.

Secondly, it's my eyeball test, the coaching staff, etc.

Third. With the measure of performance, it was against KY and South Carolina that he had good games. Also, we have gone over this several times but you like to ignore facts....he doesn't throw down field.

I guess the Old Dominions of the world, have better WR and offensive lines, cause we couldn't even match their offensive output against Vandy. There was a reason that we ran the ball on 3rd and 8 vs Vandy. Coaches have zero confidence in his passing ability.

So tell me......does coach Jones know what he is talking about or do you know more than all of them?
Click to expand...

Every QB pads their stats against poor defenses.

He threw it pretty well against SC and KY, also had some good throws against Mizzou. Also in the O&W game. Go back and watch. We are not going to a bowl without Dobbs.

The coaches choked, got scared, with their play calling in the Vandy game due to their need to win.

However, I will agree that he needs to work on the intermediate passing game. All players have things they need to work on.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 people
#473
#473
KBVol said:
You're gonna downplay Josh playing well vs the 6-6 2014 South Carolina team in an attempt to discredit him...... but weren't you the one who brought up Tee's completion record vs the 1998 version of South Carolina who finished 1-10? Nice.

Dobbs had a poor day throwing the ball last Saturday after throwing the ball very well in 3 of the last 4 games. Coukd it have been that he's still a work in progress and still needs to improve his mechanics to become a more accurate passer? Hell yes. Could it have been the multiple injuries to the WR corp -no North, no Smith, no Croom, no Malone... hell yes. Could a contributing factor have been the 16-20 mph swirling wind in the stadium? Hell yes. Could playing behind the worst OL in the country, which has given up 8 sacks and twenty-effing-four (24) tackles for loss the last 2 games have played a role in Dobbs' diminished accuracy? Yes.

When it became evident that the passing game wasn't working/effective late in the second half, the coaches wised up and made the decision they should have vs Florida....shut down the passing game, run the damn ball like Dobbs did and rely on your defense to win the game..... like they did.

And I, rather than pray that Dobbs be benched or have his scholarship pulled because he was struggling throwing the ball, was thankful that he the poise and ability to find other ways to win the ballgame.....which he did.
Click to expand...

Great point on the coaches learning from the Florida game. Sometimes the plan is not working or players are off on certain days. Happens to every team and all players. Make me rethink the point I made in the previous post.

Was the wind as bad as described?
 
#474
#474
KBVol said:
You're gonna downplay Josh playing well vs the 6-6 2014 South Carolina team in an attempt to discredit him...... but weren't you the one who brought up Tee's completion record vs the 1998 version of South Carolina who finished 1-10? Nice.

Dobbs had a poor day throwing the ball last Saturday after throwing the ball very well in 3 of the last 4 games. Coukd it have been that he's still a work in progress and still needs to improve his mechanics to become a more accurate passer? Hell yes. Could it have been the multiple injuries to the WR corp -no North, no Smith, no Croom, no Malone... hell yes. Could a contributing factor have been the 16-20 mph swirling wind in the stadium? Hell yes. Could playing behind the worst OL in the country, which has given up 8 sacks and twenty-effing-four (24) tackles for loss the last 2 games have played a role in Dobbs' diminished accuracy? Yes.

When it became evident that the passing game wasn't working/effective late in the second half, the coaches wised up and made the decision they should have vs Florida....shut down the passing game, run the damn ball like Dobbs did and rely on your defense to win the game..... like they did.

And I, rather than pray that Dobbs be benched or have his scholarship pulled because he was struggling throwing the ball, was thankful that he the poise and ability to find other ways to win the ballgame.....which he did.
Click to expand...
Good God man! What is it with you guys? I mean come on! Your both right. Why can't you just give a little?

Dobbs has been terrific, dynamic and all those other super action words with his legs and has more than contributed (I only say that because its a team sport and he didn't do it by himself) to our recent success. Everyone agrees with that and has acknowledged the fact. He has unlimited potential.

Dobbs has accuracy issues. Regardless of if you agree with me, DTO etc. or not. CBJ has repeatedly stated that publicly time and again. It has been noted by the media. It has been demonstrated on the field. Its the biggest reason he was going to be redshirted. It just is.

I can understand that you, DTO and whoever want to defend their positions to the bitter end. The simple fact of the matter is that, regardless of how many facts or proof that is put out there, no one will concede. Its a no win battle for anyone. You will have members that will like the hell out of every post you make. DTO will have the same.

And it will continue until everyone gets tired of it or the next big disagreement in another thread blows up. Probably be something about negavols and sunshine pumpers.
 
#475
#475
You've attempted to simplify...but you missed. Just read the thread title. Is Dobbs "the answer"?...Yes or no?
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.
Advertisement



Back
Top