Do pro-choice people say?

[utvolpj]

I just find the gall of these folk claiming they would force a person to carry a fetus against their will to be highly selfish and lacking perspective.

It's easy to give out orders when you don't have to live with them.

I would also add that they're likely against BC being provided, against prenatal care/counseling being provided, against welfare being provided, against childcare being provided, against child tax credits, etc.

eventually something has to give

 

[Obsessed]

No, but he used to drive the short bus that was packed with your relatives.

Them hardeman county folks are a different breed. I've got family there.

 

[etmVol]

I just find the gall of these folk claiming they would force a person to carry a fetus against their will to be highly selfish and lacking perspective.

It's easy to give out orders when you don't have to live with them.

The answer to that is adoption. I wouldn't have a sister if her biological mother had opted for abortion over allowing my parents to adopt her. I would never have met my best grad school friend (or her husband, with whom I have become a very good friend) had her mother aborted her instead of given her up for adoption. All the Apple fanatics would have been without their beloved Steve Jobs had he been aborted instead of given up for adoption.

But before it even gets that far, how about the importance of pregnancy prevention (yes, I know, rape is a different beast)? Pregnancy is a result of sex. If you don't want a baby, you can start with not having sex. If you are going to have sex, use contraceptives. If taking the pill or using contraceptives is too much to ask, have your tubes tied or get the BC implant (Morena I think?). And if all of that fails, and there is a baby inside of you, you still don't have the right to murder it. Allow it the opportunity to live with someone who does want it.

 

[Obsessed]

I just find the gall of these folk claiming they would force a person to carry a fetus against their will to be highly selfish and lacking perspective.

It's easy to give out orders when you don't have to live with them.

Got to pay to play. Be a responsible person and use protection. Don't kill a child because you had too many shots of tequila.

 

[MercyPercy]

The answer to that is adoption. I wouldn't have a sister if her biological mother had opted for abortion over allowing my parents to adopt her. I would never have met my best grad school friend (or her husband, with whom I have become a very good friend) had her mother aborted her instead of given her up for adoption. All the Apple fanatics would have been without their beloved Steve Jobs had he been aborted instead of given up for adoption.

But before it even gets that far, how about the importance of pregnancy prevention (yes, I know, rape is a different beast)? Pregnancy is a result of sex. If you don't want a baby, you can start with not having sex. If you are going to have sex, use contraceptives. If taking the pill or using contraceptives is too much to ask, have your tubes tied or get the BC implant (Morena I think?). And if all of that fails, and there is a baby inside of you, you still don't have the right to murder it. Allow it the opportunity to live with someone who does want it.

Let me introduce you to the real world where people make mistakes and unexpected and unwanted pregnancies occur. Please check your religious beliefs at the door, because we're dealing with real life people who don't deserve to be subjugated by some subjective moral standard turned into law.

 

[utvolpj]

The answer to that is adoption.

maybe in some situations but it's is not always

Got to pay to play. Be a responsible person and use protection. Don't kill a child because you had too many shots of tequila.

sometimes abortion is the responsible choice. Anyone acting like it is an easy one is fooling themselves

 

[Obsessed]

Let me introduce you to the real world where people make mistakes and unexpected and unwanted pregnancies occur. Please check your religious beliefs at the door, because we're dealing with real life people who don't deserve to be subjugated by some subjective moral standard turned into law.

You are a real piece of work

 

[Obsessed]

sometimes abortion is the responsible choice. Anyone acting like it is an easy one is fooling themselves

Lol.

 

[etmVol]

I would also add that they're likely against BC being provided, against prenatal care/counseling being provided, against welfare being provided, against childcare being provided, against child tax credits, etc.

eventually something has to give

I am against BC being given out like candy in schools to minors without parental consent, but I am very much not against education or BC in general. Education and counseling are great things, and should be expanded (though, maybe somewhat restructured) rather than abandoned.

I am ok with some financial help being given to pregnant women and new mothers (it should be going to the child anyway), but I am against child tax credits (it is frequently and thoroughly abused - I have seen it firsthand) and believe the welfare system should be completely overhauled as it is one of the most abused systems currently in place. But it goes back to, if you are not financially able to support a kid, don't have one. If you're pregnant and can't support it, give it up for adoption.

 

[utvolpj]

Lol.

I've faced it first hand and can assure you the pregnancy was planned and not tequila induced. Your LOL is downright insulting to the thousands who have also made very difficult decisions

guess I'll just leave you guys to your uninformed opinions and absolutes when it comes to pregnancy, genetics and child-rearing

 

[MercyPercy]

You are a real piece of work

Thanks

 

[VolsNSkinsFan]

Since you've obviously attempted to make this a partisan issue by using the word "liberal", are you suggesting that only liberals have abortions? Also, can you explain how as conservatives rally around 'getting the government' out of our personal freedoms (i.e Obamacare) but have no problems having the government dictating terms to individuals on health matters such as this?

because someone has to speak for the most vulnerable. Usually the Dems are pretty good at being the "Party of the Little Guy" except in this case they ignore the littlest

 

[MercyPercy]

Maybe LG has a future in Fetus Law defending the "littlest", since it looks like he's going to have to get out of the cop defending business (see: movie theater shooting).

 

[Obsessed]

I've faced it first hand and can assure you the pregnancy was planned and not tequila induced. Your LOL is downright insulting to the thousands who have also made very difficult decisions

guess I'll just leave you guys to your uninformed opinions and absolutes when it comes to pregnancy, genetics and child-rearing

Uninformed?? I have seen it first hand. I was 17. I watched my child go through a tube. So spare me PJ. I grew up from that screw up and have paid the price everyday since then.

 

[etmVol]

Let me introduce you to the real world where people make mistakes and unexpected and unwanted pregnancies occur. Please check your religious beliefs at the door, because we're dealing with real life people who don't deserve to be subjugated by some subjective moral standard turned into law.

I want to kill you and eat your liver. I don't deserve to be subjugated by some subjective moral standard turned into law.

I want to kill your family so I can steal your car/house/whatever and sell it for drugs. I don't deserve to be subjugated by some subjective moral standard turned into law.

I want to kill all Jews and blacks and create a master race. I don't deserve to be subjugated by some subjective moral standard turned into law.

You see how that works? There must be some common laws that are based on a certain level of morality that is more important than what you want or don't want. Outside of war, accidents, and self-defense, killing is something to be punished - it doesn't matter if it is because I want to eat you, steal from you, perform genocide, or don't want a kid, murder is murder.

I am not just saying that from a religious perspective. I both understand and respect the fact that not all people share my religious beliefs, and I certainly cannot force them on anyone. But murder being a bad thing goes beyond one's belief (or non-belief) in Jesus.

 

[utvolpj]

Uninformed?? I have seen it first hand. I was 17. I watched my child go through a tube. So spare me PJ. I grew up from that screw up and have paid the price everyday since then.

which has no bearing on the decision my family was faced with since ours was a planned pregnancy. However you would want to eliminate any choice for others in the matter of their own children.

this is not always about some drunk chick making a mistake or a condom that broke. Removing the abortion option has serious consequences that are just ignored by those "fighting for the little guy"

 

[Obsessed]

which has no bearing on the decision my family was faced with since ours was a planned pregnancy. However you would want to eliminate any choice for others in the matter of their own children.

this is not always about some drunk chick making a mistake or a condom that broke. Removing the abortion option has serious consequences that are just ignored by those "fighting for the little guy"

Fair enough but you know damn well it is used as BC by many. Medical problems with a baby happen but are rare.

 

[utvolpj]

Fair enough but you know damn well it is used as BC by many. Medical problems with a baby happen but are rare.

and if you ban it then it doesn't matter the reasoning. As for rare, we experienced it 3 times. Two were because of genetic issues we became aware of later and one was a fluke but it happened. It's so rare that it took weeks to get an appointment with a genetic counselor because she was booked solid.

Like I've said the whole time, a whole group of responsible adults gets ignored every time this discussion is brought up because ghetto Gloria and spring break Sally are much easier to demonize

 

[MercyPercy]

I want to kill you and eat your liver. I don't deserve to be subjugated by some subjective moral standard turned into law.

I want to kill your family so I can steal your car/house/whatever and sell it for drugs. I don't deserve to be subjugated by some subjective moral standard turned into law.

I want to kill all Jews and blacks and create a master race. I don't deserve to be subjugated by some subjective moral standard turned into law.

You see how that works? There must be some common laws that are based on a certain level of morality that is more important than what you want or don't want. Outside of war, accidents, and self-defense, killing is something to be punished - it doesn't matter if it is because I want to eat you, steal from you, perform genocide, or don't want a kid, murder is murder.

I am not just saying that from a religious perspective. I both understand and respect the fact that not all people share my religious beliefs, and I certainly cannot force them on anyone. But murder being a bad thing goes beyond one's belief (or non-belief) in Jesus.

It's certainly your right to disagree with it but you have no right over someone's body. That's all there is to it. If you want to continue equating abortion to cold blooded murder that's fine, but thankfully this country is trending away from that over simplified way of thinking.

 

[etmVol]

and if you ban it then it doesn't matter the reasoning. As for rare, we experienced it 3 times. Two were because of genetic issues we became aware of later and one was a fluke but it happened. It's so rare that it took weeks to get an appointment with a genetic counselor because she was booked solid.

Like I've said the whole time, a whole group of responsible adults gets ignored every time this discussion is brought up because ghetto Gloria and spring break Sally are much easier to demonize

Then what alternative do you suggest? Allow them in special cases only (life of mother at risk, certain genetic issues, et.)? If so, who decides what those cases and situations are?

I can understand those situations in which it is medically necessary in order to save a life (the mother, or one twin, etc.) or something like that. But what I cannot understand is why those fighting for the ability to keep THAT legalized fight so hard for 'ghetto Gloria' and 'spring break Sally' to be able to kill their child as a means of BC.

 

[etmVol]

It's certainly your right to disagree with it but you have no right over someone's body. That's all there is to it. If you want to continue equating abortion to cold blooded murder that's fine, but thankfully this country is trending away from that over simplified way of thinking.

You just made my argument for me. I have no right over your body, just as a woman has no right over a child's body.

 

[utvolpj]

Then what alternative do you suggest? Allow them in special cases only (life of mother at risk, certain genetic issues, et.)? If so, who decides what those cases and situations are?

I can understand those situations in which it is medically necessary in order to save a life (the mother, or one twin, etc.) or something like that. But what I cannot understand is why those fighting for the ability to keep THAT legalized fight so hard for 'ghetto Gloria' and 'spring break Sally' to be able to kill their child as a means of BC.

why does anyone but the person carrying the child need to decide? If you don't like the idea of an abortion then don't get one. It really is that simple. Some lady in some random town getting an abortion has zero effect on my life just like our decision had no effect on hers.

 

[tumscalcium]

I'm fine with abortion under certain situations. To use it as a form of birth control seems ridiculous but it reduces the amount if folks on welfare.

Now, I believe in equality. If a woman who had a hand in getting herself pregnant (I'm not talking rape, that's different) with a man and can unilaterally decide to kill their baby then men should be allowed to remove themselves financially from support if they want nothing to do with the baby.

 

[etmVol]

why does anyone but the person carrying the child need to decide? If you don't like the idea of an abortion then don't get one. It really is that simple. Some lady in some random town getting an abortion has zero effect on my life just like our decision had no effect on hers.

I agree with you from a religious standpoint (one in which all will be judged for their actions on the day of Judgement) in that I cannot force my convictions upon you; I can plead with you to understand, but cannot force your hand or restrict you based on my religious beliefs. However, we live in a civilization in which killing is not an appropriate activity.

I get that abortion is legal right now. But I also get that me killing my neighbor or boss or your kid is not legal. Why the distinction? Unless medically necessary for some reason or other, how is abortion different than the illegal killing in the examples above?

 

[GoBigOrangeUT]

I'm fine with abortion under certain situations. To use it as a form of birth control seems ridiculous but it reduces the amount if folks on welfare.

Now, I believe in equality. If a woman who had a hand in getting herself pregnant (I'm not talking rape, that's different) with a man and can unilaterally decide to kill their baby then men should be allowed to remove themselves financially from support if they want nothing to do with the baby.

100% agree.