Difference between Malzahn, Chip Kelly, and CJH

#1
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#1
Malzahn and Kelly built their careers being offensive geniuses only to fade later in their careers.

Looking for posters with some solid football knowledge to reply here.

Does CJH run an offense that can last longer than 5 years before becoming average?
 
#2

AllVolinGA

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#2
Football is always evolving. The offense will be out in front then the defenses catch up. That's why I personally never get caught n up in the new shiny thing that is out there. Look back over the history of the game and you will see that offensive evolutions have been what has moved the game forward. But when push comes to shove, you better have one play that when its nut cutting time, you can hang your hat on to move the chains. What has that been for Tennessee the past 10 years? I am asking because I don't know, and I've been watching the Vols since 1973. We used to be very good with the FB lead and the counter gap.
 
#3

OrangeTsar

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#3
Football is always evolving. The offense will be out in front then the defenses catch up. That's why I personally never get caught n up in the new shiny thing that is out there. Look back over the history of the game and you will see that offensive evolutions have been what has moved the game forward. But when push comes to shove, you better have one play that when its nut cutting time, you can hang your hat on to move the chains. What has that been for Tennessee the past 10 years? I am asking because I don't know, and I've been watching the Vols since 1973. We used to be very good with the FB lead and the counter gap.
It comes down to if they can adapt. That is one reason Saban stays at the top and why Pruitt crashed
 
#4

LSU-SIU

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#4
Malzahn and Kelly built their careers being offensive geniuses only to fade later in their careers.

Looking for posters with some solid football knowledge to reply here.

Does CJH run an offense that can last longer than 5 years before becoming average?
Malzahn is fairly good but not a genius, let's be honest... he's a dork. Chip Kelly was a scam, and the wheels fell off the scam.

Me posting on the Kelly scam back in 2016.
 
#5

Roustabout

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#5
Malzahn and Kelly built their careers being offensive geniuses only to fade later in their careers.

Looking for posters with some solid football knowledge to reply here.

Does CJH run an offense that can last longer than 5 years before becoming average?
Spurrier’s offense wasn’t the same later in his career. Adaptability is the key.
 
#8

Vol423

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#8
Malzahn and Kelly built their careers being offensive geniuses only to fade later in their careers.

Looking for posters with some solid football knowledge to reply here.

Does CJH run an offense that can last longer than 5 years before becoming average?
I question the analytical skills and football knowledge of anyone that EVER viewed Malzahn as an offensive genius.
 
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#9

tnutater

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#9
The SEC has some really good defensive coaches.
They do not need a whole lot of time to figure how to stop a new look offense.
If new coach won't evolve his offensive as he goes along it it unlikely to work 5 years.
 
#10

volmandu

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#10
Malzahn and Kelly built their careers being offensive geniuses only to fade later in their careers.

Looking for posters with some solid football knowledge to reply here.

Does CJH run an offense that can last longer than 5 years before becoming average?
It is about adapting as lot of posters said here. Urban Meyer runs similar offense but has evolved and adapted. Lincoln Riley runs air raid (similar to Heupel) and does well. Saban ran some version of same last year and earlier with Lane. They both did well. Leach has been killing on offense forever.
It all depends on whether you adapt and upgrade or not.
 
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#13
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#13
Malzahn is fairly good but not a genius, let's be honest... he's a dork. Chip Kelly was a scam, and the wheels fell off the scam.

Me posting on the Kelly scam back in 2016.
Kelly wasn't a scam. He came back to a different game with a struggling school. I think Oregon would still be consistently good if he had stuck around and adapted his offense.
 
#14

AllVolinGA

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#14
Adapt or die. Isn't that the case with most anything in life. Successful coaches allow themselves to grow and by in large steal from mother successful programs. I was fortunate enough to coach, high school only now, for over 20 years. I worked with a very good head coach both her in middle TN and in GA. He is a Wing T guy. Ran it here very well and in GA very well. But he has grown it and added to it so that is not the wing t many of us are familiar with from the 1979-80s. Because we were never blessed with a great throwing QB, we mixed in the inside veer and then then midline option. Great stuff. No one would want to see that at the college level today.
Heuple better be ready to shift the speed up on his offense because while he has been successful, the defenses he will face regularly in the SEC are a step above what he has faced thus far in his career. If he can do that and evolve just enough each year to keep growing then he has a chance. If he is like Butch and keeps a guy like AK off the field and not putting a lead blocker front of a back like Hurd, then we will be doing this again in 4 to 5 years. I hope it works and he is here for 20 years. I'm tired of the Vols sucking hind tit in the SEC.
 
#16

sjt18

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#16
Malzahn and Kelly built their careers being offensive geniuses only to fade later in their careers.

Looking for posters with some solid football knowledge to reply here.

Does CJH run an offense that can last longer than 5 years before becoming average?
One of the assistants today talked about how Heupel had evolved over his career already and was constantly looking to improve. Someone also mentioned that he'd successfully adjusted to different personnel.

Maybe the same was said about the other two at this stage of their career. I don't know.
 
#17
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#17
Malzahn and Kelly built their careers being offensive geniuses only to fade later in their careers.

Looking for posters with some solid football knowledge to reply here.

Does CJH run an offense that can last longer than 5 years before becoming average?
Malzahn and Kelly had two things in common when they were being successful. They had QB’s that could run enough, distribute the football and stud RB’s. We’re talking 1000 yard rushers and could catch, approaching 1500-2000 yards from scrimmage.

I don’t know enough about CJH yet, but based on the limited sample size, he has tempo in common with the other two, that’s about it, he seems more like a traditional air raid guy with RPO as a wrinkle to me. If he had a stud RB, or a QB that could run a little vs. SEC defenses without getting killed, who knows.

Gus and Kelly definitely wanted to run the ball, they both have said, we’re blocking for the RB, we aren’t designing it to run the QB, but if it’s there he can take it.

I think what CJH is doing relies more on having a QB that can do a little more than being a point guard. Just my take.

Edit: All three inherited pretty decent situations, CJH is not in this instance.
 
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#19

majic73

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#19
All spread spread systems are not created equal. Malzahn runs the wing-T , all stretched out. Alot of misdirection and outside runs. Kelly runs a spread but every play is based off on the zone read. Every counter and play action is based off the zone read. Myer runs the triple option out of a spread formation.

All of these systems have different strengths and weaknesses. In the Malzone system , a running QB is necessary. In Myers system , Tebow was essentially the third running back of the option which combines the QB and running back and allows an extra receiver. Kelly system is am awesome system , but fails at the point of attack when the defense can get penetration with the front four ( see Oregon vs LSU )

Butch wanted to use his power running system and a 4 vertical passing game. The passing game was essentially a layered "west coast" system. Read from the top layer down. One of the issues with Butches system is he never has a QB that could run a layered west coast system. He routinely did not keep enough blockers in . His power running game did not take off because he did not use the zone rear correctly to off set the pass rush and his blocking was not good enough to allow a true QB zone read ( Oregon at the point of attack ) . I attribute this to Butch not adapting his system to SEC play. What he did at Cin was not feasible without some sort of change.

CJH features a power running game out of the spread much like Butch , except he uses RPO and zones to offset the defense attacking down hill. He does not necessarily need a running QB , but he needs an accurate pre-snap read from his QB. His passing game is read horizontally , often uses three receivers , and the deception of tight ends and running backs. His receivers and QB's have the ability to change routes to find the "grass" much life the Fun and Gun at Florida ( which I think was one of the best spread systems ) .

The issue that this system will have is that many of the trap , cutback and power runs take far too long to develop and they allow too much backside pressure. He will need to depend on the RPO game , as I dont think the zone read game as a main weapon will get you very far in the SEC. He is going to have trouble , the top half of the SEC will man cover with success which will allow the backers to attack the running game. His system at Mizzouri feasted on weak teams and floundered badly against against capable defenses .

It will be interesting
 
#20

JoAllan

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#20
“Does CJH run an offense that can last longer than 5 years before becoming average?“

who knows.......even if he can’t.......that means we still get 2 good years.......I’ll take it!
 
#22
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#22
Oh yeah, one more thing. Up tempo is no longer new to the SEC. The idea that you can wear the defense out by going fast, well...at Bama, Ole Miss, MSU, UGA, UF...they all practice versus that daily.
 
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#23

T2P_Priceless

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#23
Malzahn and Kelly built their careers being offensive geniuses only to fade later in their careers.

Looking for posters with some solid football knowledge to reply here.

Does CJH run an offense that can last longer than 5 years before becoming average?
CJH seems to always evolving, learning and adding/adjusting to his system. Just look at his offenses through the years. He’s been successful everywhere. From OK to Utah, to Mizzou and UCF
 
#25
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#25
All spread spread systems are not created equal. Malzahn runs the wing-T , all stretched out. Alot of misdirection and outside runs. Kelly runs a spread but every play is based off on the zone read. Every counter and play action is based off the zone read. Myer runs the triple option out of a spread formation.

All of these systems have different strengths and weaknesses. In the Malzone system , a running QB is necessary. In Myers system , Tebow was essentially the third running back of the option which combines the QB and running back and allows an extra receiver. Kelly system is am awesome system , but fails at the point of attack when the defense can get penetration with the front four ( see Oregon vs LSU )

Butch wanted to use his power running system and a 4 vertical passing game. The passing game was essentially a layered "west coast" system. Read from the top layer down. One of the issues with Butches system is he never has a QB that could run a layered west coast system. He routinely did not keep enough blockers in . His power running game did not take off because he did not use the zone rear correctly to off set the pass rush and his blocking was not good enough to allow a true QB zone read ( Oregon at the point of attack ) . I attribute this to Butch not adapting his system to SEC play. What he did at Cin was not feasible without some sort of change.

CJH features a power running game out of the spread much like Butch , except he uses RPO and zones to offset the defense attacking down hill. He does not necessarily need a running QB , but he needs an accurate pre-snap read from his QB. His passing game is read horizontally , often uses three receivers , and the deception of tight ends and running backs. His receivers and QB's have the ability to change routes to find the "grass" much life the Fun and Gun at Florida ( which I think was one of the best spread systems ) .

The issue that this system will have is that many of the trap , cutback and power runs take far too long to develop and they allow too much backside pressure. He will need to depend on the RPO game , as I dont think the zone read game as a main weapon will get you very far in the SEC. He is going to have trouble , the top half of the SEC will man cover with success which will allow the backers to attack the running game. His system at Mizzouri feasted on weak teams and floundered badly against against capable defenses .

It will be interesting
This is exactly the kind of post I was looking for, thank you!
 
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