Did we turn on Butch too soon?

#101
#101
sjt18 said:
Are you insane?

He squandered a literal manna from heaven situation. He arrived at a moment when a ton of legacy and homer recruits were available. Pruitt would be in better shape now if he'd shown up with Hurd, Barnett, et al knocking his door down to commit.

It wasn't "luck" that prevented Jones from beating OU or from beating UF at least once more... or caused him to lose several other games. It was his own incompetence as a coach. He was a used car salesman and terrible coach who just happened to inherit a uniquely good couple of year of recruiting opportunities.

NOTHING Pruitt does or doesn't do makes the firing of Jones the wrong thing. If anything... Jones should have been fired two years earlier.
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Nope not insane, not a Butch fan either but looking back and albeit I dont remember every nuance of the time he was here but as far as wins, he has more than Pruitt, as far as stand out players he had more than Pruitt, he won against our rivals at least to a degree, he had us in position to go to the Sugar Bowl at least altho they couldnt close the deal, so far by comparison he's the better coach, I dont see how it can be argued really, it may prove out differently in the end but as of right now, its Butch.
 
#104
#104
I think we can see from the lack of a line of programs waiting to hire him shows that no, we did not wait to long.
 
#106
#106
igotworms said:
Anyone who even casually watches football knows.
Butch and now Pruitt (who is worse) should both have been fired after 3
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Anyone who knows football knows a coach who went 9-4 doesnt get fired, especially when they are trending upward like Butch was at that time.
 
#107
#107
Boone&Crockett said:
Yes, the buyout, only reason
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Butch Jones is the same loser that sat Alvin Kamara on the bench after breaking the all purpose yardage record for a single game. LOL doesn't get dumber than that.

Kamara had 288 Total yards, 2 TD, and 20 Yards per reception....
 
#108
#108
No. He got most of 5 seasons...lost his team.
 
#110
#110
sjt18 said:
Are you insane?

He squandered a literal manna from heaven situation. He arrived at a moment when a ton of legacy and homer recruits were available. Pruitt would be in better shape now if he'd shown up with Hurd, Barnett, et al knocking his door down to commit.

It wasn't "luck" that prevented Jones from beating OU or from beating UF at least once more... or caused him to lose several other games. It was his own incompetence as a coach. He was a used car salesman and terrible coach who just happened to inherit a uniquely good couple of year of recruiting opportunities.

NOTHING Pruitt does or doesn't do makes the firing of Jones the wrong thing. If anything... Jones should have been fired two years earlier.[/QUOTE I hear alot about the legacy class that Butch got as well but remind me who in the "legacy" class really panned out to be a star, i cant think of one honestly, most of the big players under Butch had no ties to UT whatsoever.
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#111
#111
No. But Butch wanted to be here took pride in Tennessee. Acted like a kid in a candy store when he got here. Pruitt acted miserable from day one. I had high hopes for both. Pruitts press conferences are horrible. Makes Tennessee look dumb when he addresses the media..
 
#113
#113
MWAVolfan said:
There's a reason that Butch and Dooley were fired and have never been head coaches again.

I get buyouts and free money, but tell me how many power 5 head coaches get fired and don't have a new head coaching gig within a year or two?
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Well let's see...

Phil Fulmer
Derek Dooley
Johnny Majors
Bill Battle
Doug Dickey
 
#114
#114
Boone&Crockett said:
I thought if he took another job it cut in on the buyout money, but maybe not
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It OFFSETS it...or would’ve. He would still get the difference. That’s happening now. We’re off the hook for the $30 k he pulls down at Bama. 😉
 
#115
#115
It wasn't just the legacies though they were helpful to bring in others. Hurd, Smith, and others were "homers" that were coming to UT regardless of who the new coach was. He was a used car salesman and it worked to bring in some decent players. But it could NEVER last... at some point he had to actually be a leader of the team and coach. He failed badly at both... and then the recruiting went south.
 
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#116
#116
Boone&Crockett said:
Nope not insane, not a Butch fan either but looking back and albeit I dont remember every nuance of the time he was here but as far as wins, he has more than Pruitt, as far as stand out players he had more than Pruitt, he won against our rivals at least to a degree, he had us in position to go to the Sugar Bowl at least altho they couldnt close the deal, so far by comparison he's the better coach, I dont see how it can be argued really, it may prove out differently in the end but as of right now, its Butch.
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Those guys would have come here no matter the coach. There is no comparison that Pruitt is a better "football coach" than Lyle. NONE. They are both apparently horrible at leading a major program. I had high hopes for Pruitt, but he has shown pretty clearly that he is in over his head. You can say Butch beat UF and UGA, but not without herculean efforts by Dobbs/Jennings. Can you name one thing that you can point to that Lyle did to win those games? Lyle and Lyle alone squandered that opportunity in 2016. He couldn't figure out how to get Kamara on the field and how to use Hurd/Kamara together. He also lost the locker room with his act. Also, without Lyle, we have the Clemson guys here (Lawrence, Higgins, Amari, and Travis E). At the time, I thought it was time to move on from Fulmer, but looking back on it now...maybe we should have ridden the storm out. What would the last 11 years looked like if we would have had T. Boyd at QB....then the legacy bunch from 14-15...then Lawrence and crew? Who knows, but I GUARANTEE you, it doesn't look any worse than the last 11 years have already.

I fear that we will be in an eternal debate over who was the worst coach (Dooley, Lyle, or Pruitt). I think Dooley and Pruitt are tied at the same level, but the trumpet player is in another level of suck all by himself.
 
#117
#117
Boone&Crockett said:
Nope not insane, not a Butch fan either but looking back and albeit I dont remember every nuance of the time he was here but as far as wins, he has more than Pruitt, as far as stand out players he had more than Pruitt, he won against our rivals at least to a degree, he had us in position to go to the Sugar Bowl at least altho they couldnt close the deal, so far by comparison he's the better coach, I dont see how it can be argued really, it may prove out differently in the end but as of right now, its Butch.
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Again, Pruitt's failure doesn't make Jones a success. All coaches to one degree or another inherit a situation from the previous coach. Jones' schtick stopped working. His last two classes set Pruitt up poorly. Pruitt definitely owns it now... but his starting point was probably worse than Jones' starting point.

What Jones did isn't close to good enough. He failed for different reasons but he still failed. It was his work that produced the first 8 loss season UT has ever had... that was his 5th year.
 
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#118
#118
Butch was mentally done. He realized in ‘15 he was in over his head. Dobbs, Kamara & Barnett carried them thru ‘16 but the wheels were already coming off by then.
 
#119
#119
sjt18 said:
Again, Pruitt's failure doesn't make Jones a success. All coaches to one degree or another inherit a situation from the previous coach. Jones' schtick stopped working. His last two classes set Pruitt up poorly. Pruitt definitely owns it now... but his starting point was probably worse than Jones' starting point.

What Jones did isn't close to good enough. He failed for different reasons but he still failed. It was his work that produced the first 8 loss season UT has ever had... that was his 5th year.
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Exactly. Pruitt inherited a dumpster fire because we let Lyle burn it down in 2017. Should have been canned in 16, but I get it that you can't fire a guy after beating UF and UGA in the same year...even though the writing was on the wall and it was only a matter of time. Likewise, the writing is on the wall this year, and the longer we wait it will be that much harder on the new guy. If we get a decent hire in this year, there is enough talent there to make a jump next year. We just have to have the fortitude to make that move.
 
#120
#120
Boone&Crockett said:
Just a random thought but when you look back over his body of work i gotta say it has been better than Pruitt to this point. Butch beat Florida, Georgia, with a ounce of luck he beats Oklahoma, he recruited more dynamic players here than Pruitt has in Dobbs, Barnett, Kamara, Patterson, Sutton, etc... and now that Penix has shown what potential he would have brought here he may have been the next Josh Dobbs and put us back in position to win.
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NO
 
#121
#121
volinSmyrna said:
Exactly. Pruitt inherited a dumpster fire because we let Lyle burn it down in 2017. Should have been canned in 16, but I get it that you can't fire a guy after beating UF and UGA in the same year...even though the writing was on the wall and it was only a matter of time. Likewise, the writing is on the wall this year, and the longer we wait it will be that much harder on the new guy. If we get a decent hire in this year, there is enough talent there to make a jump next year. We just have to have the fortitude to make that move.
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I agree and especially if recruits see Pruitt as a dead man walking.

A quality hire would save at least some of the recruiting class. It might bring in some unexpected wins... there are usually a few. Then there is at least an opportunity to be "better than expected" next fall due to the inherited talent.

If that doesn't happen... the "next guy" will probably start at least as bad off as Pruitt was. Maybe worse.
 
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#122
#122
Butch Jones was an overpaid clown. He was the worst game day coach ever. Go back and look at the stupid plays ,clock management, garbage can idiocy and other buffoonery imaginable.
 
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#124
#124
volinSmyrna said:
Those guys would have come here no matter the coach. There is no comparison that Pruitt is a better "football coach" than Lyle. NONE. They are both apparently horrible at leading a major program. I had high hopes for Pruitt, but he has shown pretty clearly that he is in over his head. You can say Butch beat UF and UGA, but not without herculean efforts by Dobbs/Jennings. Can you name one thing that you can point to that Lyle did to win those games? Lyle and Lyle alone squandered that opportunity in 2016. He couldn't figure out how to get Kamara on the field and how to use Hurd/Kamara together. He also lost the locker room with his act. Also, without Lyle, we have the Clemson guys here (Lawrence, Higgins, Amari, and Travis E). At the time, I thought it was time to move on from Fulmer, but looking back on it now...maybe we should have ridden the storm out. What would the last 11 years looked like if we would have had T. Boyd at QB....then the legacy bunch from 14-15...then Lawrence and crew? Who knows, but I GUARANTEE you, it doesn't look any worse than the last 11 years have already.

I fear that we will be in an eternal debate over who was the worst coach (Dooley, Lyle, or Pruitt). I think Dooley and Pruitt are tied at the same level, but the trumpet player is in another level of suck all by himself.
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I cant disagree with you, its kinda the same argument, what if we had rode it out with Fulmer, idk..it seemed like Fulmer had lost touch with the game tho, I think the job was too big for Butch and i think its too big for Pruitt as well, Dooley was a joke, if and when we do replace Pruitt we better go after someone who has won a Conference Championship at a big school if we cant get someone who has won a National Championship, honestly i think someone with a pedigree is the only way they can handle the pressure that comes with this job or any of the big school jobs where winning is expected like it is here.
 
#125
#125
Hell yea yall did. lol I thought it was a big overreaction. He gave you two 9 winning seasons in 5 years. I believe he was gonna bounce back that next season. The players love Butch from what I was always told. He beat UF and GA. I think he deserve some credit.
 
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