Did 5-7 record really reflect talent?

#76
#76
hatvol96 said:
Yeah, you have great points. I'm just waiting for the New Mexico State-Baylor BCS Title game that's coming when they hire the "right" coaches.
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You're a funny guy Hatvol. I guess that the salient point that you are wanting to make is that nothing is possible unless you deem it so. Otherwise, we're way off point. I believe that Tennessee and Florida have similiar talent and that coaching is the main reason that Tennessee had a dismal year. You believe, per your responses, that no coach could win with Tennessee's talent last year. Since much of that talent is back, you don't believe that we can do better than 5 wins this year. Is that correct?
 
#77
#77
Vol71 said:
You're a funny guy Hatvol. I guess that the salient point that you are wanting to make is that nothing is possible unless you deem it so. Otherwise, we're way off point. I believe that Tennessee and Florida have similiar talent and that coaching is the main reason that Tennessee had a dismal year. You believe, per your responses, that no coach could win with Tennessee's talent last year. Since much of that talent is back, you don't believe that we can do better than 5 wins this year. Is that correct?
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I have to respectfully disagree with Coaching being the crux of our failure. You or I or even my Mom could Coach UF with Tebow and win at least an SECG. Urban isn't "all that" and eventually his luck will run out.
 
#78
#78
VegasVol said:
The question is who had better talent. The claim the team "should have been" 12-0 was the claim.

Grossman was a much better talent than Clausen, pure and simple. One "laughed" his way to million dollar paydays and Super Bowl starts; the other couldn't make it out of summer camp to be on the practice squad. LSU had 2 QBs play in the NFL off their roster; we had 0. Are you one of those folks saying our QB disadvantage this year doesn't matter?

So, "let's recap."

PLAYERS BY TEAM WHO WENT ON TO THE NFL

UT 17
UF 23
LSU 21
MIAMI 33

But we were "better" than everybody else and "should" have been undefeated?
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How does having two decent QBs help? We had one and amzingly, only one plays at a time.

We had an absolutely dominant dline, which is THE key to defensive football. We had a much better than adequate offensive line with solid skill positions. That's a championship formula, period.
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#81
#81
PrattvilleVol said:
I have to respectfully disagree with Coaching being the crux of our failure. You or I or even my Mom could Coach UF with Tebow and win at least an SECG. Urban isn't "all that" and eventually his luck will run out.
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I agree with you wholeheartedly that Florida has some superior talent on board right now and it does make life easier for the "coaches". I am not a fan of Urban Meyer but he and his assistants did recruit that talent. I also agree with you that Tebow and Harvin made a perfect storm of talent. Let's face it, who are you going to cover. Tebow requires a defender, Harvin required double coverage and that left Murphy or the TE. Basically, a pick your poison scenario. You are also deadly accurate in saying that their luck will run out. It will. Alabama and USC dominated the 70's and only recently have returned to greatness. All things evolve and all things revolve; however, great players can make average coaches look good, but only great coaches can inspire average players to play great. Your points are well made.
 
#82
#82
"How does having two decent QBs help?"

When 1 gets hurt or to be able to employ two different offensive styles with two different QBs. See UT early 2004; see LSU 2001.
 
#84
#84
hatvol96 said:
There isn't a coach in the country who would have won more than 8 games with Tennessee's personnel last year.
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I think that's a bit of a stretch, but mostly because we had some pretty bad teams on our schedule.

UCLA, UAB, Auburn, Northern Illinois, Mississippi State, Wyoming, Vanderbilt, and Kentucky all should have been wins. South Carolina wasn't exactly unbeatable, either.
 
#85
#85
a team with the history of UT is gonna have sufficient talent most of the time, (maybe not to beat UF the way they are going right now) but to beat just about every other team on the schedule. However, the QB isn't there, and the Oline had obvious struggles. Once UT gets a solid QB, it will probably be just like the days of clausen and ainge, but until then you guys will have to rely on some sort of ground game and limit crompton's mistakes
 
#86
#86
More often than not, we bring in highly touted highschool recruits, and they leave here with the ability to be just that; highly touted highschool recruits. D. Bolden, J. Swan, C. Houston, J. Davis, B. Smith, S. Young, G. Riggs, J. Williams...
The list is waaaaay longer than I have time to write, but I ask you this. If P. Harvey had come to UT, would he now be in the NFL; or would we be saying once again that he was just over-rated coming out of highschool. Head Coaches are important, as are the Coordinaters; but without good position coaches, no team looks talented.

And as for the 2001 SECCG, there is no excuse for allowing a team that you beat handily during the season to beat you with backups when it really counts. I don't care if he did eventaully make it to the NFL, Maulk was not experienced enough. That was a case of coaches failling to keep the team focused once we knocked Davies out the game. We started celebrating, while they started playing football.
 
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#87
#87
Dr Dread said:
And as for the 2001 SECCG, there is no excuse for allowing a team that you beat handily during the season to beat you with backups when it really counts.
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you can say that again.

we had the lead at halftime, and they had their starting QB and TB out of the game.

i have trouble deciding whether 2nd half of that game, or 2nd half of UF 95, is my most forgettable Chavis experience. i think i'd give the nod to 01 SECCG.
 
#88
#88
hatvol96 said:
Georgia and South Carolina both kicked our teeth out. Bill Walsh calling plays wouldn't have changed that.
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A better offense may not have changed the georgia game, but I think the USCe game would have been different had our offense been clicking in prior games. Our confidence was at a season low for that game... I don't think any of our guys went into that game expecting to win.
 
#89
#89
PrattvilleVol said:
I have to respectfully disagree with Coaching being the crux of our failure. You or I or even my Mom could Coach UF with Tebow and win at least an SECG. Urban isn't "all that" and eventually his luck will run out.
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Then how did florida manage to lose 4-5 games in 2007 with the tebow / meyer combo?
 
#90
#90
Vol71 said:
You're a funny guy Hatvol. I guess that the salient point that you are wanting to make is that nothing is possible unless you deem it so. Otherwise, we're way off point. I believe that Tennessee and Florida have similiar talent and that coaching is the main reason that Tennessee had a dismal year. You believe, per your responses, that no coach could win with Tennessee's talent last year. Since much of that talent is back, you don't believe that we can do better than 5 wins this year. Is that correct?
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I said nobody would have won more than eight games. If you can't properly summarize what someone says, you shouldn't address them. Any decent coach would have won at least six games last season. Losing to Wyoming should have gotten Fulmer permanently banned from the state of Tennessee. UT should win 6 or 7 this year.
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#91
#91
I believe your record it what it is. Of course any team could have done this or done that and been better, or worse :)
 
#92
#92
General Jack said:
Then how did florida manage to lose 4-5 games in 2007 with the tebow / meyer combo?
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The better question is how long will this alleged luck last? He's won a National Championship with Chris Leak as his primary QB, gone unbeaten at Utah, resurrected Bowling Green, etc. That guy must be living right to be that "lucky."
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#93
#93
hatvol96 said:
The better question is how long will this alleged luck last? He's won a National Championship with Chris Leak as his primary QB, gone unbeaten at Utah, resurrected Bowling Green, etc. That guy must be living right to be that "lucky."
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Seriously, its time to fess up that he's a good coach, as much as that pains me.
 
#94
#94
VegasVol said:
2001: Upset Florida as an 18 point underdog in Spurrier's last game ever at Florida Field and whipped Michigan in the NYD bowl game. The loss to a good and underrated LSU team in the SEC title game was tough, but we overachieved to be there in the first place. Offense overachieved given talent level and competition.
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This might be the worst post ever on VN.
 
#95
#95
Anyone that says UF and Tennessee have comparable talent is sadly sadly mistaken... Tenessee has some extremely talented players at certain positions, while UF is extremely talented at EVERY position. Look at the UT roster and ask yourself who on that roster would be starting for UF this year. The answer is not good.

In addition, comparing Nuke to Percy Harvin is crazy ridiculous. Percy Harvin coming out of HS was legendary. Everyone wanted him and he was clearly the best player in the country.

Nuke is talented, for sure, but the only thing legendary about him coming out of HS was his name... NUUUUUUKE.
 
#96
#96
Harvin was like 6'1 200lbs of muscle
Nuke is 5'7 170lbs or so

where is the compariosn..they are both fast?

both have 2 different skill sets
 
#99
#99
Harvin was like 5'11 175 coming out of HS. Not TOO much bigger than Nuke. But Nuke's first step is nothing like Harvin's first step. That guy was just RIDICULOUS.

Thats why UF always ran counters with him. He could go one way then change direction faster than most people can sprint in a straight line.
 
#100
#100
Vercingetorix said:
The Cal game was over early. I know we were "only" two scores down for most of the second half -- I remember saying the same thing repeatedly, as though I was trying to convince myself -- but nobody in that stadium seriously thought UT was going to come back and win the game.

The offensive line was a sham. They couldn't run block at all, and even at the time the consensus was that the only reason they gave up so few sacks was because
of how quickly Ainge rushed to get rid of the ball. I remember laughing at Mark May in a preseason show last year when he talked about how great our returning OL was going to be.

Again, I'm not really defending Clawson -- he was put in an impossible position, yes, but he sure as heck didn't do anything to help matters out. The doctor may have committed malpractice, but the patient was already terminally sick anyway.
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See. I had the same feelings on the Cal game except opposite part of the team. Our Defense was letting them drive straight down the field and score points every single drive and I already knew our offense wasn't one who was going to be able to score every drive on a team....I mean even USC, OU, and UF might be the only teams you can be certain can pull as "no defense, score every drive game" situation (aka whoever scores last, wins!) and win, and honestly the Ole Miss game w/ UF showed that's not always the case. Our offense wasn't great in that game, but it certainly wasn't the main cause of that loss: the defense deserves much more blame in that game for giving up 6 TD-scoring drives...that's ridiculous for any team.

Yeah much of the offense stuff I agree on, and I really agree that it was a combination of both that gave the bad results. Still, it was a ridiculously massive drop-off than it really should have been if it were just cupboard bare. I mean, UT cupboard bare shouldn't/isn't be bottom-of-the-league-worse-than-UCF offense. So I hold a heavier blame stick towards the offensive coach and his new scheme, just based off the numbers.
 
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