Defending Fulmer

#1,351
#1,351
Ugh. I'll just go ahead and say I disagree with all that and typing out all the reasons for my stance would take several days.
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#1,352
#1,352
DarthVisor said:
It was a sign of who was the brains behind the operation to begin with. If you want to play this stat game, Fulmer was nothing without Cut.
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Cut didn't make an impact until well after Fulmer had already established himself and his system. He was still a part time, and early assitant coach When Fulmer became OC in 89, and turned a losing team into back to back SEC title holders. Cut learned from Fulmer. What changed between 1988 and 1989? Fulmer took the reigns of the offense, and we went from 60's archaic trickory plays, and bludgeoning ourselves, to a more modern offense. Two of Majors 3 SEC titles were a gift from Fulmer.

Before Fulmer became OC we did all sorts of crazy 60's crap like the huddle after a kickoff to try and "fake" the other team out....never worked, but Majors loved that play......Heck we might have still ran A Single Wing if he could have. The Glory Era of post General Neyland Tennessee Football Starts with Phillip Fulmer, I pray it doesn't end there.

Personally I think Fulmers best days were when he was more hands on with Offense. From 89 to 98 he was hungry, after 98 I think he let himself enjoy it. Cut didn't really make decisions until 93....and if you think Fulmer abdicated his control of offense at that time then your delusional. Cut is an incredible booth coach, Fulmer was always rubber meets the road coach.
 
#1,353
#1,353
Fulmer flat out couldn't run a practice without Johnny or Cutcliffe around. NFL guys would eat him alive.
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#1,354
#1,354
Sgt_Nick_Fury said:
Cut didn't make an impact until well after Fulmer had already established himself and his system. He was still a part time, and early assitant coach When Fulmer became OC in 89, and turned a losing team into back to back SEC title holders. Cut learned from Fulmer. What changed between 1988 and 1989? Fulmer took the reigns of the offense, and we went from 60's archaic trickory plays, and bludgeoning ourselves, to a more modern offense. Two of Majors 3 SEC titles were a gift from Fulmer.

Before Fulmer became OC we did all sorts of crazy 60's crap like the huddle after a kickoff to try and "fake" the other team out....never worked, but Majors loved that play......Heck we might have still ran A Single Wing if he could have. The Glory Era of post General Neyland Tennessee Football Starts with Phillip Fulmer, I pray it doesn't end there.

Personally I think Fulmers best days were when he was more hands on with Offense. From 89 to 98 he was hungry, after 98 I think he let himself enjoy it. Cut didn't really make decisions until 93....and if you think Fulmer abdicated his control of offense at that time then your delusional. Cut is an incredible booth coach, Fulmer was always rubber meets the road coach.
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How many championships did Fulmer win without Cut? Like it or not, CPF was mediocre at best without Cut.
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#1,355
#1,355
VKAman said:
He won back in the good old days when kids were playing with jacks and eating taffy, but then those crazy thuggish kids ruined the nice man's career. Are you kidding? You fit right in with VegasVol and gibbs.
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Jacks and taffy? Wrong era....we were Disco, Funk, Metal and Rap that complained about violence instead of bragging about it.

I don't say they ruined his career he should have adapted. But it's no secret that discipline became alot tougher after the Xers... The nice guy approaches work less with selfish people, and more Red Forman "boots in the rear" tactics are in order. Fostering teamwork seems to be alien to many now. Accountability now falls on coaches instead of players. Coaches have to adapt to the kids though it is what it is. I won't argue that Fulmer is responsible for not adapting.

Study: College students more narcissistic - Boston.com

I probably fit in with them because we're all adults who remember different ethics and more integrity, and because we had father's who we lived in the same house with, and who still had a legal right to whip our butt, and made a point to prove that on a regular basis when we got to big for our britches. And were taught that life was not fair, and to acknowledge that toughen up and move on, instead of throwing tantrums laying blame on everyone when didn't get our way, sulking, and having sweet emo freak outs when our egos were called into question. (Steve McNair vs Vince Young) ... heck.....UGGGHHH maybe I do need some jacks and taffy... or a grumpy man cane to shake at the nubtards.....come to think of it I'm gonna go get all three. Gonna shake my cane at nubtards, chew my taffy and throw jacks at them :rock:
 
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#1,356
#1,356
DarthVisor said:
How many championships did Fulmer win without Cut? Like it or not, CPF was mediocre at best without Cut.
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How many did Cut win without Fulmer? Fulmer took a losing team, and made it into two back to back titles when Cut was still part time.

So your gonna blame Fulmer for losses, but give Cut cred for wins?

convenient...

How about context...what changed? I mean what was done "differently" after Cut became OC? The change after Fulmer was named offensive coordinator under majors was HUGE. I don't remember a remarkable change to play book or style after Cut....he supported Fulmers system and continued it....I don't remember a huge change when he left. Cuts a great coach but not sure that he changed the style of play. Before and after him it was Fulmer's playbook and system.
 
#1,357
#1,357
Phil was and is pretty quick to lay blame at the feet of others. If Phil had such a problem with miscreants, perhaps allowing James Banks a few hundred chances wasn't the smartest idea. Just a few months lster he begged Albert Toehenia to return to the te after he told the coaches to **** off.
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#1,358
#1,358
Fulmer's system wasn't drastically different than what came before him. The thing that changed was the quality of the skill players.
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#1,359
#1,359
Sgt_Nick_Fury said:
How many did Cut win without Fulmer? Fulmer took a losing team, and made it into two back to back titles when Cut was still part time.

So your gonna blame Fulmer for losses, but give Cut cred for wins?

convenient...

How about context...what changed? I mean what was done "differently" after Cut became OC? The change after Fulmer was named offensive coordinator under majors was HUGE. I don't remember a remarkable change to play book or style after Cut....he supported Fulmers system and continued it....I don't remember a huge change when he left. Cuts a great coach but not sure that he changed the style of play. Before and after him it was Fulmer's playbook and system.
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Cut has not been blessed with the talent that CPF was blessed with. I'm not saying it would have made a difference, but don't draw that comparison without mentioning the noticeable differences of the programs each coach inherited.

It may well have been Fulmer's playbook, but he sure as hell didn't know how to use it. With a mixture of poor discipline practice, lazy recruiting, piss poor game planning, and unjustified loyalty to outdated assistant coaches, CPF was basically laying the groundwork for taking UT football from prominence to poverty.
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#1,360
#1,360
kptvol said:
Fulmer's system wasn't drastically different than what came before him. The thing that changed was the quality of the skill players.
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Were you watching the games back then. You'd be the first Vol I ever heard who would say Majors and Fulmer play style was the same. Those two refuse to even pee the same way.
 
#1,361
#1,361
Sgt_Nick_Fury said:
Were you watching the games back then. You'd be the first Vol I ever heard who would say Majors and Fulmer play style was the same. Those two refuse to even pee the same way.
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He didn't say it was the same, he said it wasn't drastically different.
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#1,363
#1,363
DarthVisor said:
It may well have been Fulmer's playbook, but he sure as hell didn't know how to use it. With a mixture of poor discipline practice, lazy recruiting, piss poor game planning, and unjustified loyalty to outdated assistant coaches, CPF was basically laying the groundwork for taking UT football from prominence to poverty.
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What planet are you from? What color is you sky?

Fulmer had the winningest percentage for a coach in the NCAA when people started talking about his "unjustified loyalty" What most people mean when they say "unjustified loyalty" in knoxville is "you only won 10 games? no Title? off with someone's head!" Expectations I might add that didn't really exist pre Fulmer....he sat the bar he later failed to meet. You don't tally his career record with pisspoor anything......and I would think the gamecocks would be experts on that topic pre Spurrier.

He was the one that took the Vols from medocrity to prominance in the first place....

Year win% Coach
1977 0.167 Johnny Majors
1978 0.5 Johnny Majors
1979 0.5 Johnny Majors
1980 0.5 Johnny Majors
1981 0.5 Johnny Majors
1982 0.5 Johnny Majors
1983 0.667 Johnny Majors
1984 0.5 Johnny Majors
1985 0.833 Johnny Majors
1986 0.5 Johnny Majors
1987 0.667 Johnny Majors
1988 0.429 Johnny Majors

Fulmer becomes Offensive Cordinator,
60's playbook is updated

1989 0.858 Johnny Majors
1990 0.715 Johnny Majors
1991 0.715 Johnny Majors
1992 0.625 Johnny Majors, Phillip Fulmer
Guess who coached three losses?

1993 0.875 Phillip Fulmer
1994 0.625 Phillip Fulmer
1995 0.875 Phillip Fulmer
1996 0.875 Phillip Fulmer
1997 0.875 Phillip Fulmer
1998 1.000 Phillip Fulmer NC Title

The Decline

1999 0.75 Phillip Fulmer
2000 0.625 Phillip Fulmer
2001 0.875 Phillip Fulmer
2002 0.626 Phillip Fulmer
2003 0.75 Phillip Fulmer
2004 0.875 Phillip Fulmer
2005 0.375 Phillip Fulmer
2006 0.625 Phillip Fulmer
2007 0.75 Phillip Fulmer
2008 0.375 Phillip Fulmer

With exception of 2005 and 2008 even the decline kicks Pre Fulmer wins.

Most every program in the SEC has cyclical events on team, what makes Fulmers stats remarkable is that his poor rebuilding years don't even show up until he's been coaching 13 years as head coach.....

I dunno.....very few coaches in the SEC have achived his sort of success and before him we were NOT a power house for many years.

Even General Neyland had 1936-37 47-49....had Phil bashers been alive then they would have talked about him "taking UT football from prominence to poverty."

Vols who do not remember Pre Fulmer, or were just too young Pre-fulmer are spoiled....He won so often and so long that any hiccup to that and it was the "end of the world" Well I promise you we're gonna see a lot more hiccups then that over the next decade most likely.

Dooley has what it takes turn this team around, but if he has 1 bad year will Vols stand by him? or lop his head off and start the decades of self destruction Alabama went through after Bryant?
 
#1,364
#1,364
DarthVisor said:
He didn't say it was the same, he said it wasn't drastically different.
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Yes, Yes it was...it really really was..... if I could find a record of the sort of play calls before 1989 vs after......it was a HUGE difference. Or the difference between games the year they split coaching....those three losses same team that had been blowing the competition away...and suddenly complete and total shift...

I dunno you either lived it, didn't, or forgot.
 
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#1,365
#1,365
Well I'm done tonight.....got a baby to stay up with......all I can say is this as a parting irrefutable statement. Unless you are in fact old enough to remember watching General Neyland’s teams...in Which case I thank you for your ww2 service hopefully. Then the longest and best winning streak and era of TN dominance you saw was under Phillip Fulmer. No other Coach at UT excepting the General himself compiled such a record. Period.

Yet you guys want to not only discount the mans accomplishments, but hate on him...a man who has given his all to Tennessee from the time he first suited up as a player. Shame on all of ya....I regret you live in this state.

I hope Dooley out shines them all.....but it will not be easy...maybe Vols can at least agree on that wish.
 
#1,366
#1,366
kptvol said:
I'm sure relieving Clawson would have turned Crompton right around and made our offensive line block defenders rather than laying down in front of them. Probably would have fixed our pathetic special teams and inspired Chavis not to allow awful Juco quarterbacks to tear him a new one.
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the offensive line would have definetly improved becsuse they wouldn't have been running the system Clawful put in place where they played multiple positions
 
#1,367
#1,367
DarthVisor said:
It was a sign of who was the brains behind the operation to begin with. If you want to play this stat game, Fulmer was nothing without Cut.
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it's not a stat game, it's called a coaching record, and all coaches are judged by their wins and losses
 
#1,369
#1,369
Sgt_Nick_Fury said:
Were you watching the games back then. You'd be the first Vol I ever heard who would say Majors and Fulmer play style was the same. Those two refuse to even pee the same way.
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kpt thought we won the 1979 SEC title. His "living memory" of the era is what he googles. Heaven forbid he googles up the wrong website....

Recently, kpt has sung the refrain of "up the middle" Johnny (as if he remembers) which pretty much shoots down his innane comment to you.

You must realize Nick, that the Gang of Five (GoF) have no living memory of the pre-Fulmer days, and they assiduously avoid any connection to the real world outside the back door.

Anyone alive and kicking at the time knows: 1. UT football took BIG steps forward when Phil was OC and recruiting coord, was a lot more exciting, and 2. UT got even better from day one when Phil took over.
 
#1,370
#1,370
how many post does it take before a topic is merged? Seems that with 1371 it should be combined with "the topic that will never die" thread in The Pub forum
 
#1,373
#1,373
utgibbs said:
Anyone alive and kicking at the time knows: 1. UT football took BIG steps forward when Phil was OC and recruiting coord, was a lot more exciting, and 2. UT got even better from day one when Phil took over.
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+100

I would add Doug Dickey played a part as well, he unlike our last AD supported Fulmer, and helped him be able to focus on one thing...the offense. The Dickey/Fulmer combo was a great thing for the Volunteers. If only we could get an AD like that for Dooley, a Coach background instead of an MBA.

An MBA AD will get you visual improvements and help you sell orange crap, But a Dicky style AD will help ya get SEC Titles. They understand what the coaches NEED.

Also can I get a list of the GoF? Just so I know for future ref.
 
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#1,375
#1,375
DarthVisor said:
Cut played a pretty big part in getting him there.
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All his staff did....John Chavis certainly played a bigger part in helping him get there then Cut. Our defense secured that title as much or more then the offense.
Fulmer would be the first to credit those around him. No coach gets there alone.
 
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