Defending Fulmer

[vol_in_ar]

Wow, I'm still amazed by the silliness of some of the comments still. I think alot of people hated on Phil unfairly, and a lot of people loved Phil more on emotion than numbers......and so it was a personal thing. The people who hated on him, in general did not respect what he brought to the program, and felt anyone could do better. They were wrong, and we've suffered since. The numbers do not lie.... Likewise many of those who defend him through thick and thin do so because of him being just a really "good" guy, and loved by his players, and remembering him in his prime. Clearly he had not been at that level for some time. Clearly he was NOT able or maybe just not willing to push it to the level Tennessee is expected to.

Was it time for him to go? maybe, but there is zero doubt our recruiting, record, and program suffered for the transition. Are we better off now? Unknown, we lost alot of people and alot of recruits we might otherwise have had, if Dooley turns it around we'll know. I think Phil himself hopes Dooley succeeds.

The fact is Fulmer's recruiting class with berry is still the best we may see for some time. Yeah he had slipped recruiting but I would say Chavis is partially responsible on that front as well. Both of them got a lil too comfy....

Most like Dooley me included, and hope he's the right one.....but really all the hate for Phil is just nucking futs. More about your own thin egos, then his actual record.

He was no Bear Bryant, and he was no Spurrier. However he had an impressive winning streak, and when he first came on he single handedly should be given credit as OC for turning Vols around under Majors when they were in a bad losing streak. That was why he got the Job after all. If only he could have stayed at that prime or grown more... He's sent ALOT of people to the NFL. very few coaches have sent as many players to teh NFL as Fulmer... No not just anyone could do what he did at TENNESSEE....how long did we own Alabama and Georgia under him? You don't think those programs were spending money like mad to get back on top? He was deffinately an above average coach. He is maybe elite as a person, as most of his players will tell you. Truthfully he's more of a die hard VOL himself then 90% of the fans in here..... But yeah, he let our competativeness slip, he chose to be a nice guy when a lil more discipline and fear were maybe what the players needed to get it done. Still....I'm not convinced yet Dooley will match his record, and I imagine Dooley would be pretty happy to get that far at the moment....stop being so classless to not respect what the man did for UT....Great coach....and a great Vol.

Alot of people quite frankly are not old enough to remember much of his best days...many are older but loved Majors and because Majors blamed him for losing his job they do too. (nonsense I was on campus when that went down, Phil or no Phil, Majors signed his own last paycheck when he started "losing it" at practices, and telling the wrong people off. ...and quite frankly should have thanked Fulmer for his last couple of years being winning sesons. ) ..I loved Majors. I still do.....but something made him mean and hateful...and it happened years before he left. There's alot of stories that could be said.... but I don't like people hating on him either....it's in the past.

Anyway whatever, flame me if you like. Fulmer will still have a street named after him, and he'll still have a lot of fans, and his players will continue to think of him as a second dad, and he'll still have a National Championship. The majority of regular fans that actually continue to go to the stadium season after season still like the guy......and while you online nubtards may think your the center of the VOL Universe....your not....that center is still among the Stadium faithful....

As a University we were spoiled with General Neyland...heck even Bear Bryant looked up to Neyland......The man was a Legend. We started with one of the absolute best there has ever been or will be.........but men like that....they are not likely to appear anymore in the world of sports. Not in todays buisiness first, honor second climate.

Dooley is funny, smart, has his accent down...and if he can some how summon some of his father's infamous fourth quarter luck.....we have a bright future.... what's done is done.....enough bitterness already....

Fulmer is gone as a coach....respect him as the Great Vol he was and still is and move on.....

Or just continue to be classless......but you just make many many fans (and players) have contempt for what we might otherwise have listened to had you not felt the need to unfairly attack an old friend of many at UT.

welcome to VN

 

[Sgt_Nick_Fury]

Funniest thing I've read all week. Outside of Berry, Moore, Walker, and maybe Jones, that class was garbage.

We've already had two better hauls since then.

Go to rivals and check out the ranking of 2007 recruiting class. It was ranked third in nation.

What happened since then is hindsight...you NEVER know for sure how a player will develop. You can't judge a recruit by information no one knows yet....recruiters do not have crystal balls, And around the nation everyone thought that class was strong. And the best player might suck if they had gone through the turmoil at Tennessee from 2008 on.......Many of the kids Fulmer recruited might have done very well had they just had a stable coaching staff....they got screwed by what followed being recruited.

Tennessee had #3 recruiting class in the nation that year according to Rivals....the same people hating now constantly use rivals as a source...but conveniently forget this point when Phil bashing.

I'm sure lots of things are "funny" to you....many things you do not understand. Fools laugh at much....

 

[Sgt_Nick_Fury]

welcome to VN

Thanks I been lurking here a long time.....probably not off to a good start....as I probably ticked some people off...but I feel I ticked the right people off if I did.

I used to post on ESPN boards during football season...hope I see some of the people I liked there here now that ESPN has trashed those forums in format. I imagine those that hated me there are here as well though.....

Every Vol has loved me at Neyland so far that's all that matters.

 

[Sgt_Nick_Fury]

I tell you who does like Phil traditionally...Vegas.....and vegas tends to have a clearer view then most fans....They LOVED HIM in Vegas. Phil's coaching style was a bit lik a Bookie....go with the odds....always go with your best odds. He was more of an NFL style coach in that regard minus the huge personal EGO and discipline...which may be required to go with that style. It worked for him as long as he had top recruiting....but that style requires you always have the best every year. The NFL does not hire "unknown" quantities....college has to and hope for the best.

But that's what happens when you coach by percentages.....you get a lot of wins....but sometimes FAIL to take home the big prize. Spurrier on the other hand took huge risks on single plays, but they were usually pretty brilliant....and people forget the flops..... Of course Spurrier's style SUCKS in the NFL....as he proved, and Millionaire players don't put up with prima donna coaching BS either.....because that sort of off the cuff stuff hasn't flown there since the 60's.

 

[kptvol]

Too bad Phil didn't get a chance to dominate the NFL. Love the idea that there are no unknowns with getting players in the NFL. That Ryan Leaf sure was a superstar.
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[DarthVisor]

The Sear's trophy I see when I'm back on campus sure looks real to me..

you want myths go read Harry Potter books, and leave the sports posting to football fans

I'm not disputing that he won a national championship. What I am saying is that his removal from power had little to do with Clawson and more to do with his coaching ability, which had vastly deteriorated since he acquired that Sears Trophy.
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[justingroves]

Too bad Phil didn't get a chance to dominate the NFL. Love the idea that there are no unknowns with getting players in the NFL. That Ryan Leaf sure was a superstar.
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Brady was a stud at Michigan

Everyone knew Miles Austin would be a #1 WR

Johnny Knox had scouts drooling

 

[Sgt_Nick_Fury]

Too bad Phil didn't get a chance to dominate the NFL. Love the idea that there are no unknowns with getting players in the NFL. That Ryan Leaf sure was a superstar.
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Okay Good point.....I went perhaps too far in that thought..
Well as many Proved ...(like Heath too) yeah some players look great in college and don't seem to assimilate to the Adult big boy world of the NFL.

That said "Athletically" everyone who makes it to the NFL is a Known quantity. For the most part by the NFL discipline issues are KNOWN. What the NFL has to have though is a mature adult to put on the uniform. Clearly many College stars never grew up, and think they'll be a big deal in the NFL....cause they always have been. Many feel that that NFL paycheck is the end of the rainbow and once they get it, they don't really have a higher goal....and lose all self discipline..and drive. (contentment and happiness is a career death sentence to players and coaches alike)

But when a kid is fresh out of High School.....you only know natural talent........nothing else is certain. But yeah I guess nothing is ever really certain.....just less uncertain.

P.S.
Contentment and Happiness are poison to CEO's, small buisiness owners, military officers, and national economies as well. They are poison to competition and aggression, and anything that requires them.

Also while I think Fulmer's coaching style was more NFL, I don't say he'd dominate in the NFL. His nice guy issue would be even more painfulthere. To cow multi-millionaire athletes you have to be a bit of an SOB. maybe more then a bit. If your ego is not large enough to actually register a weight on a scale by itself, your not going to hack pro ball. However most coaches in the NFL, I would not want in my family or even to come over to dinner. I might shoot some on sight. Phil on the other hand would be welcome 24/7 cause he's just good people. Somethings are just more important in life.

 

[kptvol]

Coaches are able to work players out in camps, travel to see them play, and hire scouting services. Couple that with strength coaches, nutritionists, and great facilities and coaches have no one to blame if guys aren't athletic enough.
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[NashVol11]

Also while I think Fulmer's coaching style was more NFL, I don't say he'd dominate in the NFL. His nice guy issue would be even more painfulthere. To cow multi-millionaire athletes you have to be a bit of an SOB. maybe more then a bit. If your ego is not large enough to actually register a weight on a scale by itself, your not going to hack pro ball. However most coaches in the NFL, I would not want in my family or even to come over to dinner. I might shoot some on sight. Phil on the other hand would be welcome 24/7 cause he's just good people. Somethings are just more important in life.

You think Fulmer would fail in the NFL because his ego wasn't big enough?

 

[vol_in_ar]

I'm not disputing that he won a national championship. What I am saying is that his removal from power had little to do with Clawson and more to do with his coaching ability, which had vastly deteriorated since he acquired that Sears Trophy.
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yea going from 30th in nation in offfense in '07 to 116th in '08 with Clawful as the OC was just a minor bump in the road

 

[Sgt_Nick_Fury]

You think Fulmer would fail in the NFL because his ego wasn't big enough?

Likely....I can't think of a single succesful NFL coach who could not summon DEMON ego from hell at a moments notice. IT is an important attribute when dealing with Owners, Players and other self important rich people. Maybe Landry defies that......though I think he could summon help from God on command.....there's always one or two that defy the norm, maybe Phil would too. I'd love to have seen him get a go at it...but probably too late.

 

[kptvol]

yea going from 30th in nation in offfense in '07 to 116th in '08 with Clawful as the OC was just a minor bump in the road

Good thing the coach used to be an offensive coordinator. I'm sure he could come right in and fix an offensive mess without Dave Cutcliffe to bail him out.

 

[kptvol]

Likely....I can't think of a single succesful NFL coach who could not summon DEMON ego from hell at a moments notice. IT is an important attribute when dealing with Owners, Players and other self important rich people. Maybe Landry defies that......though I think he could summon help from God on command.....there's always one or two that defy the norm, maybe Phil would too. I'd love to have seen him get a go at it...but probably too late.

Phil would get roasted in the NFL. He's got pathetic records against two coaches that didn't do so hot there.

 

[vol_in_ar]

Good thing the coach used to be an offensive coordinator. I'm sure he could come right in and fix an offensive mess without Dave Cutcliffe to bail him out.

he should have right after UCLA, but he didn't, and it got fired for it

 

[kptvol]

he should have right after UCLA, but he didn't, and it got fired for it

I'm sure relieving Clawson would have turned Crompton right around and made our offensive line block defenders rather than laying down in front of them. Probably would have fixed our pathetic special teams and inspired Chavis not to allow awful Juco quarterbacks to tear him a new one.

 

[Sgt_Nick_Fury]

Coaches are able to work players out in camps, travel to see them play, and hire scouting services. Couple that with strength coaches, nutritionists, and great facilities and coaches have no one to blame if guys aren't athletic enough.
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Sure they do ....the player......

The player's head matters more then any of those...and is not easy to predict, and become less so when every position of authority is switched on them every year.

 

[NashVol11]

Likely....I can't think of a single succesful NFL coach who could not summon DEMON ego from hell at a moments notice. IT is an important attribute when dealing with Owners, Players and other self important rich people. Maybe Landry defies that......though I think he could summon help from God on command.....there's always one or two that defy the norm, maybe Phil would too. I'd love to have seen him get a go at it...but probably too late.

You think Fulmer's problem was that his ego was too small? After the years he's spent saying Tennessee would be so much better with him here, and that he interviewed schools instead of the reverse? He would most certainly flop in the NFL, but you're looking for the wrong reasons why.

 

[kptvol]

Sure they do ....the player......

The player's head matters more then any of those...and is not easy to predict, and become less so when every position of authority is switched on them every year.

Half the guys that left with the coaching changes had already pretty well asserted themselves as noncontributors. Chris Donald was never going to see the field. It wasn't because of his head. He played against horrible competition in high school and when push came to shove against college talent, he simply couldn't play.

 

[DarthVisor]

yea going from 30th in nation in offfense in '07 to 116th in '08 with Clawful as the OC was just a minor bump in the road

It was a sign of who was the brains behind the operation to begin with. If you want to play this stat game, Fulmer was nothing without Cut.
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[kptvol]

And as far as this "no one knows how they'll turn out" stuff, it might be appropriate if other coaches didn't face the same problem or if Phil didn't define his career early by clobbering the rest of the conference with far superior talent.

 

[Sgt_Nick_Fury]

Phil would get roasted in the NFL. He's got pathetic records against two coaches that didn't do so hot there.

You just completely missed my point earlier....the coaches you're likely reffering to couldn't succeed there because what makes you good in the NFL rarely works in College, and what works in college rarely works in the NFL. I can think of several GREAT NFL coaches who would proabably stink in the NCAA. In other news boot camp Drill Instructers likely make poor CEO's and managers.

Phil treated kids like adults...great for good kids, EXCELLENT for dealing with natural leaders...(T-Martin, Peyton, Wilson etc) not so good for problem children....(insert your own list) Perhaps a What Would Red Forman Do? bracelet would have been useful for those times.

 

[NashVol11]

You just completely missed my point earlier....the coaches you're likely reffering to couldn't succeed there because what makes you good in the NFL rarely works in College, and what works in college rarely works in the NFL. I can think of several GREAT NFL coaches who would proabably stink in the NCAA. In other news boot camp Drill Instructers likely make poor CEO's and managers.

Phil treated kids like adults...great for good kids, EXCELLENT for dealing with natural leaders...(T-Martin, Peyton, Wilson etc) not so good for problem children....(insert your own list) Perhaps a What Would Red Forman Do? bracelet would have been useful for those times.

There's also the small problem of not being able to beat anyone without a gigantic talent advantage

 

[Sgt_Nick_Fury]

And as far as this "no one knows how they'll turn out" stuff, it might be appropriate if other coaches didn't face the same problem or if Phil didn't define his career early by clobbering the rest of the conference with far superior talent.

There were more "good" kids then....the thug phenom had not yet fully developed. The kids have changed and coaching has had to change as well.

Also I don't think UT had substantially better talant during his entire win period. Heck our Nat Champ team wasn't even our best or 2nd best talent wise...under Fulmer

However it did have Al Wilson....who is maybe better then even having a demon ego to summon for getting fellow players motivated. You might blow off a father figure, but no one blows off Al Wilson.

Maybe if he could have hired Al Wilson has team disciplinarian it would have been more effective then Clawson.

 

[NashVol11]

There were more "good" kids then....the thug phenom had not yet fully developed. The kids have changed and coaching has had to change as well.

Also I don't think UT had substantially better talant during his entire win period. Heck our Nat Champ team wasn't even our best or 2nd best talent wise...under Fulmer

However it did have Al Wilson....who is maybe better then even having a demon ego to summon for getting fellow players motivated. You might blow off a father figure, but no one blows off Al Wilson.

Maybe if he could have hired Al Wilson has team disciplinarian it would have been more effective then Clawson.

He won back in the good old days when kids were playing with jacks and eating taffy, but then those crazy thuggish kids ruined the nice man's career. Are you kidding? You fit right in with VegasVol and gibbs.