Defending Fulmer

#601
#601
utgibbs said:
You have to forgive KPT and the Gamecock fan. The first has much difficulty when confronted with the real world outside the back door, and the latter is getting over their epic failure of a season (by his own metric).

I have personally never taken any pleasure in a Vol loss, and I even supported Lane Kiffin when he was my coach (I never went stupid over him, as so many, to their shame, did - however, many have made very adequate mea culpas). I did not speak out enough, perhaps, and I will try to rectify that now:

For me, the jury is still out on Dooley. Maybe it was CCS who screwed up the LSU game. Maybe the way Dooley recruits really has us in the Top Three of the SEC in recruiting and not middle of the pack. Dooley is super-bourgeois; he compared my team to the Nazi Army last year; he looks like a Fed on Vol Walk. He hasn't won me over to be fair, but I support him 110%, and I will not judge until enough data from the real world outside the back door exists to make an informed decision.

We aren't at that point yet. Go Vols! Go CDD!
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That was an great metaphor for how the vols were playing. I really don't understand why people can look at his message instead of their personal convictions over a certain time period or culture.
 
#602
#602
DjCrenshaw said:
That was an great metaphor for how the vols were playing. I really don't understand why people can look at his message instead of their personal convictions over a certain time period or culture.
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There are plenty of actual great metaphors. In fact, at the time, several VolNationer's came up with by far better ones.

55 million dead, a genocidal Holocaust, and innumerable lives otherwise destroyed by a racist / bougeois army is why people have "personal convictions."
 
#603
#603
utgibbs said:
There are plenty of actual great metaphors. In fact, at the time, several VolNationer's came up with by far better ones.

55 million dead, a genocidal Holocaust, and innumerable lives otherwise destroyed by a racist / bougeois army is why people have "personal convictions."
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Yeah and if he made a reference about the vols playing like confederates at Gettysburg, or they played like the soldiers at Jericho against the Israelies no one would say anything. It is the too soon factor I guess. I mean 70 years isn't long enough for some people. Besides, he was not condoning the actions of the nazis, he was simply stating they expected to be told what to do like the nazis did at D-day. I really don't know how you could get offended by an anology that didn't praise the actions that are frowned upon.
 
#604
#604
DjCrenshaw said:
Yeah and if he made a reference about the vols playing like confederates at Gettysburg, or they played like the soldiers at Jericho against the Israelies no one would say anything. It is the too soon factor I guess. I mean 70 years isn't long enough for some people. Besides, he was not condoning the actions of the nazis, he was simply stating they expected to be told what to do like the nazis did at D-day. I really don't know how you could get offended by an anology that didn't praise the actions that are frowned upon.
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Fulmer should have implemented a playoff system. PF knew it was FAR superior. :)

Eat it DJ! :)
 
#606
#606
DjCrenshaw said:
Yeah and if he made a reference about the vols playing like confederates at Gettysburg, or they played like the soldiers at Jericho against the Israelies no one would say anything. It is the too soon factor I guess. I mean 70 years isn't long enough for some people. Besides, he was not condoning the actions of the nazis, he was simply stating they expected to be told what to do like the nazis did at D-day. I really don't know how you could get offended by an anology that didn't praise the actions that are frowned upon.
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Comparing the my Vols to the Nazi Army is just never cool, IMHO. In that situation, you just have to call upon a better analogy, if you are determined to go there.

For a Southerner, the phrase "lost as last year's Easter Egg" should have immediately sprung to mind and conveys exactly what he was trying to convey.
 
#607
#607
Big Orange 1 said:
Really Darth? South Carolina? Never won the SEC only one SEC east title, No NC's. Not really anything outside of George Rogers, you honestly wouldnt take it?
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Yes, really. It's an irrelevant question for me as a Gamecock fan, because I highly doubt CPF would be able to get to where CSS has with us. He's just not that good of a coach. It's as simple as that.
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#608
#608
utgibbs said:
Putting on ignore = can't run with the big dogs.

It's as simple as that.

But what I'd like to know is 1. what was the incorrect pop culture reference, and 2. misguided econ lesson.
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So...no?

Seriously, I think reading your posts is making me stupider.
 
#609
#609
DarthVisor said:
Yes, really. It's an irrelevant question for me as a Gamecock fan, because I highly doubt CPF would be able to get to where CSS has with us. He's just not that good of a coach. It's as simple as that.
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Again, the question was, read real slow ok : USCjr wins 152 of their next 204 games, you struggle against Florida, you lose to Wyoming and Vandy in the same year, but you win (2) SECCG's and a National Championship trophy in beautiful (I love Lake Murray) Columbia, SC. Would you take it, or do you think you guys are going to do better than that?

I cant wait for this season to start, because the resident VOL expert KPTVOL said he wouldnt take it. We must be in for some really great years. I'd say we're in for 184 wins out of our next 204, (8) SEC Titles, and
(3) National Championships. UNC and other powerhouses like them are going to opt out of playing us.
 
#610
#610
Gibbs, as usual, is lost. CPF's time was up after the Bama game. The decision was made at that point. Had he not been completely humiliated by South Carolina, he'd have gotten to hang out until the end of the season. Go back and watch the Vols take on the Gamecocks and tell me the team hadn't already quit. The Wyoming game was like every other game of the season. Great defense. Zero offense. Crappy special teams. That's why we lost. Well, most specifically it was the Nick Stephens interceptions, but trust me, he wasn't even all that fond of Phil.

And Gibbs, you know what type of person constantly babbles that others aren't able to see what's really there despite the entire world disagreeing? Psychopaths.
 
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#611
#611
Big Orange 1 said:
I cant wait for this season to start, because the resident VOL expert KPTVOL said he wouldnt take it. We must be in for some really great years. I'd say we're in for 184 wins out of our next 204, (8) SEC Titles, and
(3) National Championships. UNC and other powerhouses like them are going to opt out of playing us.
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Yeah, you aren't getting upset at all. You're acting like a child.

Had CPF taken over the type of team Dooley did, he'd have lasted three seasons, tops.
 
#612
#612
Big Orange 1 said:
Again, the question was, read real slow ok : USCjr wins 152 of their next 204 games, you struggle against Florida, you lose to Wyoming and Vandy in the same year, but you win (2) SECCG's and a National Championship trophy in beautiful (I love Lake Murray) Columbia, SC. Would you take it, or do you think you guys are going to do better than that?

I cant wait for this season to start, because the resident VOL expert KPTVOL said he wouldnt take it. We must be in for some really great years. I'd say we're in for 184 wins out of our next 204, (8) SEC Titles, and
(3) National Championships. UNC and other powerhouses like them are going to opt out of playing us.
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Yeah, I got it the first time, and I gave my answer.
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#613
#613
kptvol said:
Yeah, you aren't getting upset at all. You're acting like a child.

Had CPF taken over the type of team Dooley did, he'd have lasted three seasons, tops.
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Nope. You said that you would not have Dooleys career mirror CPF's if it were handed to you and we would have the same successes and failures. Thats what YOU said. I'm sure you are as passionate a Vol fan as anyone (I mean that), so you must see CDD and the Vols having greater successes and less failures than CPF did.
 
#614
#614
Big Orange 1 said:
Nope. You said that you would not have Dooleys career mirror CPF's if it were handed to you and we would have the same successes and failures. Thats what YOU said. I'm sure you are as passionate a Vol fan as anyone (I mean that), so you must see CDD and the Vols having greater successes and less failures than CPF did.
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I said I'd take the first half. Not a tough concept to grasp. I won't accept ten years asleep behind the wheel after that, which is the primary reason for our current struggles. Fortunately, I think Dooley not being a "Tennessee boy" will make it a little easier to fire him, should that become necessary.
 
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#615
#615
kptvol said:
I said I'd take the first half. Not a tough concept to grasp. I won't accept ten years asleep behind the wheel after that, which is the primary reason for our current struggles. Fortunately, I think Dooley not being a "Tennessee boy" will make it a little easier to fire him, should that become necessary.
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I know you said that, I "grasped" that concept. But....that wasnt the question. 152-52 and the titles arent good enough for you and thats ok.

Its not going to matter anyway, Darth said it wasnt good enough for him either, so USCjr must be getting ready to run over the conference. Ah, man we cant opt out of playing USCjr can we?
 
#616
#616
Big Orange 1 said:
I know you said that, I "grasped" that concept. But....that wasnt the question. 152-52 and the titles arent good enough for you and thats ok.

Its not going to matter anyway, Darth said it wasnt good enough for him either, so USCjr must be getting ready to run over the conference. Ah, man we cant opt out of playing USCjr can we?
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Great. Go ahead and argue a hypothetical position no one cares about if it makes you feel better.

Phil is about the last person that could get us anything close to 152-52 in today's SEC.
 
#617
#617
kptvol said:
Great. Go ahead and argue a hypothetical position no one cares about if it makes you feel better.

Phil is about the last person that could get us anything close to 152-52 in today's SEC.
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Just what I thought when I posed the hypothetical question last night. You and all the bashers couldnt, or should I say wouldnt admit that he had a hell of a run and is the 2nd best coach in Ut's history. You bring up nonsense like he beat Mike Shula and not Nick Saban. Ok, the Phillies beat the Rangers last year and not the Yankees, so throw it out. As far as feeling better, I feel better knowing that football is less than a month away. Thank you for at least coming on here and "somewhat" answering the question. Where are all the other CPF haters?
 
#618
#618
Most don't bother since your hypothetical is absolutely apples to oranges.

Fulmer should have dominated in the weak SEC that was handed him. Instead, he let Spurrier cream him and then the conference upgraded and he proved to be what Spurrier thought. If Dooley can replicate Fulmer's first seven years in this SEC, he'll be one of the best. In this SEC, Fulmer was an abortion.
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#619
#619
kptvol said:
I said I'd take the first half. Not a tough concept to grasp. I won't accept ten years asleep behind the wheel after that, which is the primary reason for our current struggles.
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I still don't understand the problem grasping that concept.

In Phil's first 12 full seasons, he was 77-19 in the conference. He finished 7-1 or better 7 times. He won two championships. He finished outside of the top 2 in his division once.

In his last 4 seasons, he was 18-14. He went 7-1 nonce. He finished outside the top 2 twice and had two losing seasons.

A program with the stature and tradition of Tennessee should build a statue and name a street after a coach that did what Fulmer did through the early '00s. A program that is serious about football should shake hands and part ways with a coach who did what Fulmer did during the last years of his reign, and that is exactly what they did.
 
#620
#620
cotton said:
A program with the stature and tradition of Tennessee should build a statue and name a street after a coach that did what Fulmer did through the early '00s. A program that is serious about football should shake hands and part ways with a coach who did what Fulmer did during the last years of his reign, and that is exactly what they did.
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Exactly . . . And that's not Fulmer hate. That's just reality.
 
#623
#623
BigPapaVol said:
Most don't bother since your hypothetical is absolutely apples to oranges.

Fulmer should have dominated in the weak SEC that was handed him. Instead, he let Spurrier cream him and then the conference upgraded and he proved to be what Spurrier thought. If Dooley can replicate Fulmer's first seven years in this SEC, he'll be one of the best. In this SEC, Fulmer was an abortion.
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Most dont bother because they want to blame CPF for all that is wrong with the world. They called for his head in 2008, thinking we would get a Meyer/Saban prototype and it blew up in their faces with the arrival then sudden departure of the Lane train (boy that was an appropriate name). And most of the bashers on here would cut off their arm before they admit CLK was a mistake.

I knew it was a hypothetical question, and no one would answer. I just wanted everybody to reflect on what was a great run by a true Volunteer, and give the guy some kudos. Thats all.
 
#624
#624
Big Orange 1 said:
Most dont bother because they want to blame CPF for all that is wrong with the world. They called for his head in 2008, thinking we would get a Meyer/Saban prototype and it blew up in their faces with the arrival then sudden departure of the Lane train (boy that was an appropriate name). And most of the bashers on here would cut off their arm before they admit CLK was a mistake.

I knew it was a hypothetical question, and no one would answer. I just wanted everybody to reflect on what was a great run by a true Volunteer, and give the guy some kudos. Thats all.
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Obviously, in retrospect, hiring Kiffin was a mistake. The consequences of his extremely early departure weren't foreseeable at the time, however. The action that preceded that hiring, Phil's firing, was absolutely not a mistake. Those are two distinct events that Fulmer lovers want to keep unified to enhance his legacy.
 
#625
#625
Big Orange 1 said:
Most dont bother because they want to blame CPF for all that is wrong with the world. They called for his head in 2008, thinking we would get a Meyer/Saban prototype and it blew up in their faces with the arrival then sudden departure of the Lane train (boy that was an appropriate name). And most of the bashers on here would cut off their arm before they admit CLK was a mistake.

I knew it was a hypothetical question, and no one would answer. I just wanted everybody to reflect on what was a great run by a true Volunteer, and give the guy some kudos. Thats all.
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Not at all. It's the fact that the Fulmerites like to portray the Fulmer firing as if it were some conspiracy by Mike Hamilton to bring down UT, and tarnish CPF's name. Also, the Fulmerites do not like to give credit where credit is due. For example, crediting Hamilton with the Wyoming debacle, or crediting Clawson with the 08 season. The entire 08 season, even the Wyoming game, was on the shoulders of CPF. He lost those games. Not Clawson, noy Hamilton, but CPF. As gibbs would say, those are the real world facts outside the back door.
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